thank you Destiny One. I would love to dialogue with you further on the subject of the "sacrifices" as mentioned in Daniel. You should read the New King James Version in Daniel 8, Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 where it talks about the daily sacrifce being abolished by the antichrist. The world "sacrifice" is in italics in every usage in the NKJV, which is because the word "sacrifice" doesn't exist in the text in any of the six usages. This is cooberated by the Hebrew Lexicon. These verses simply say that the antichrist will abolish the "daily", meaning the daily ritual. Right now that ritual is the daily prayers at the Wailing Wall.

No need for a new temple. I believe the Scriptures bear this out, if you dig deeper into the text.

Shalom, brother.

I see a MOD moved your thread for you. This is a good thing....

Des

Oh great email a mod.....thanks for that.....
The discussion is just getting interesting.....
I wonder of you know that the temple will fit into the space beside the dome of the rock?
It will, but you must leave off the temple porch...which is mentioned in bible (measure the temple and leave off the porch....
This will be the new temple when they build it...and they have much of the actual gold etc and cloth accouterments to restart the sacrifices....
What they are up to now is breeding a red heifer without blemish or spot......
These temple rebuilders are serious and active ......im not sure you have the right take here.....

Originally posted by hab22

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I must disagree with you. The temple hasn't even been built yet. We cannot have the Abomination without a temple in which it can take place. I do agree with the war starting soon though. It seems as though the Gog-Magog way of Ezekiel 38 could start any day.

Ahah, you are of the majority opinion, as promalgated by Hagee, Lindsey, Rosenberg, Van Impe and others. I can take your argument apart one piece at a time.

No temple will be rebuilt. First of all, the Arabs will not allow it. Secondly, Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week.

As for the Ezekiel 38 Gog and Magog invasion....that doesn't happen till after the 1000 year millennium. Read Revelation 20. When Satan is loosed after being bound for 1000 years, then will happen Ezek. 38. Not now. Read Ezek 38 carefully. It speaks of Israel being at peace will all her neighbors and having no walls or borders. Certainly not the case now.

We are on the verge of the abomination as described by Jesus in Luke 21. Armies of mobs surrounding Jersusalem leading to the city being downtrodden as also described in Daniel 8

Interesting perspective....not one I recall every having read or seen. Puts a new spin on things. I don't know if I agree with it, but certainly worth researching.....Essentially your saying Jesus "was" the temple.

However; Isreal being at peace doesn't HAVE to be during the 1000 year millinium. There has been some newer lines of thought (and I can't remember by who right off the top of my head, nor the verses to support it, might be in a chapter or two before Ez38...) that state there will be a war that PRECEDES the EZ 38 war. The result of this war (possibly an Isreal, US, Iran, Syria, war)...being fairly to extremely destructive, becomes the catalyst for a protection treaty of the UN/NATO/EU/NWO with Isreal, and also brings the antichrist to power. THEN, in the middle during that treaty, the actual GOG/MAGOG invasion of Isreal takes place, breaking the treaty. This invasion isn't so much of a war, as the Lord directly intervines as prophecied in EZ38.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I must disagree with you. The temple hasn't even been built yet. We cannot have the Abomination without a temple in which it can take place. I do agree with the war starting soon though. It seems as though the Gog-Magog way of Ezekiel 38 could start any day.

The temple and the entrance into it will be the last day.Yes the temple being rebuilt will be the unmistakable sign its over.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I must disagree with you. The temple hasn't even been built yet. We cannot have the Abomination without a temple in which it can take place. I do agree with the war starting soon though. It seems as though the Gog-Magog way of Ezekiel 38 could start any day.

i must disagree with you. the temple has been built and the abomination has occurred...and everything you expect to occur.

I'm saying the first 3 1/2 year of Daniel's 70th week were fulfilled by the 3 1/2 year ministry of Jesus. This is cooberated with the dating from when Artaxertes released Ezra to go to Jerusalem in 457 bc. If you count 483 years from then, it lines up with 27 AD with 0 years between 1 bc and 1 ad.

See, people try to line up the 483 from Artaxertes to the crucifixion and it just doesnt line up.

The Messiah was cut off after 69 weeks or 483 years. This did not happen at the crucifixion, but rather at the start of Jesus' ministry when he was rejected by his hometown people. They cut him off and he had nothing. He became a homeless, penniless Messiah. But this was at the beginning of a great Jubilee, as told by Eusebius, the father of Church History. The beginning of Christ's ministry was at the 30th Jubilee from the time when Moses and Joshua initiated the first Jubilee.

So Jesus' ministry fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy. No need for a 7 year tribulation, folks. Just 3 1/2 years, beginning with the abomination. Which I believe will happen this spring, with Jerusalem being downtrodden by the Gentiles.

Just look at what happens tomorrow. We are at the door.

Study out the "parousia" or coming of Christ throughout the New Testament. Clearly has the connotation of the return of Christ, i.e. his appearing. I mean, read the book of Revelation, for heavens sake.

As for the gap between the first half and the second half of the seventieth week of Daniel, I see it as the "mystery" of the Church age. As Paul said to the Corinthians, had Satan known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Not to be argumentative. I respect all positions. I enjoy the dialogue as long as it doesnt get personal or derogatory. Iron sharpens iron. Love you, bro.

Originally posted by hab22

Study out the "parousia" or coming of Christ throughout the New Testament. Clearly has the connotation of the return of Christ, i.e. his appearing. I mean, read the book of Revelation, for heavens sake.

The book of Revelation was the first book of the Bible I ever read.
Not long ago, I translated the book of Revelation from the original Greek.
After that, I made an audio version of my original translation of Revelation.
I've read the book once or twice

In Christ's discourse, parousia only appears long after this mention of the "abomination that causes desolation." In the immediate context, Christ uses the word erchomai - though, that's really just highlighting a different aspect of that same thing. Erchomai has the connotation of a god coming to Earth. Parousia has the connotation of a military official coming in victory.
You'll also notice that the disciples asked Jesus about the ultimate end (sunteleia), while Jesus told them about the goal (telos).

The context is most certainly the destruction of Jerusalem. Otherwise, Jesus was a liar when he said all of these things in this discourse would happen to "this generation" (Matthew 24:34).

As for the gap between the first half and the second half of the seventieth week of Daniel, I see it as the "mystery" of the Church age. As Paul said to the Corinthians, had Satan known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

And, of course, it doesn't really matter how you or I see it. What matters is what God has revealed as truth in his Word. We can't go inserting gaps into things just because we want parts to still be future for us. Every belief and interpretation we have must be backed by Scripture.
Everything in Daniel 9 has been fulfilled. Every requirement for the end of the 70th week, listed in Daniel 9:24, has been fulfilled. Ask me to give Scripture to back this up, and I will (it might take some time, in my sleep-deprived state, but I'll get there).

Not to be argumentative. I respect all positions. I enjoy the dialogue as long as it doesnt get personal or derogatory. Iron sharpens iron. Love you, bro.

That's alright, I don't mind argumentative (in the 'debate' sense of the word). When trying to testify of God's Word, nothing is ever gained by being derogatory.

If you believe in the true God, then you should realize he can change prophecy, time and events. I believe he already has, which is why people are stumbling over there identities in what is believed to be the end times, this causes delusions and thought paradoxes.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by hab22

Study out the "parousia" or coming of Christ throughout the New Testament. Clearly has the connotation of the return of Christ, i.e. his appearing. I mean, read the book of Revelation, for heavens sake.

The book of Revelation was the first book of the Bible I ever read.
Not long ago, I translated the book of Revelation from the original Greek.
After that, I made an audio version of my original translation of Revelation.
I've read the book once or twice

In Christ's discourse, parousia only appears long after this mention of the "abomination that causes desolation." In the immediate context, Christ uses the word erchomai - though, that's really just highlighting a different aspect of that same thing. Erchomai has the connotation of a god coming to Earth. Parousia has the connotation of a military official coming in victory.
You'll also notice that the disciples asked Jesus about the ultimate end (sunteleia), while Jesus told them about the goal (telos).

The context is most certainly the destruction of Jerusalem. Otherwise, Jesus was a liar when he said all of these things in this discourse would happen to "this generation" (Matthew 24:34).

As for the gap between the first half and the second half of the seventieth week of Daniel, I see it as the "mystery" of the Church age. As Paul said to the Corinthians, had Satan known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

And, of course, it doesn't really matter how you or I see it. What matters is what God has revealed as truth in his Word. We can't go inserting gaps into things just because we want parts to still be future for us. Every belief and interpretation we have must be backed by Scripture.
Everything in Daniel 9 has been fulfilled. Every requirement for the end of the 70th week, listed in Daniel 9:24, has been fulfilled. Ask me to give Scripture to back this up, and I will (it might take some time, in my sleep-deprived state, but I'll get there).

Not to be argumentative. I respect all positions. I enjoy the dialogue as long as it doesnt get personal or derogatory. Iron sharpens iron. Love you, bro.

That's alright, I don't mind argumentative (in the 'debate' sense of the word). When trying to testify of God's Word, nothing is ever gained by being derogatory.

ClPrime,

Let me throw something into the mix that you probably have never heard.

It's called Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy, during which time Judah is enslaved by Babylon for the 70 years of Schmita (sabbath rest for the land) that they ignored during the time of their kings.

From the time Nebuchadnezzar removed the sovereignty of Judah's kings (by installing a puppet on the throne) in 605 BC to the time when Babylon was overthrown in 538 BC only adds up to 66.5 years, which happens to be 3 1/2 years short of the 70 year prophecy.

Now get a load of this. Jeremiah tells us what will happen when the 70 years are fulfilled. Babylon will be destroyed, never to be inhabited again, Jerusalem will become a city of holiness, never to be defiled again, the Lord will enter into a new covenant with Israel at that time and the cup of the Lord's wrath will be poured out on the nations. NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE YET OCCURRED. In fact, Jerusalem has been defiled many times over.

I believe the last 3 1/2 years of Jeremiah's prophecy will coincide with the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy, in the time of the apocalypse. which is getting to happen very soon, with Jerusalem coming under attack from Babylon and her allies. Cerca, watch how this March on Jerusalem turns out. Any coincidence that Arab leaders are all meeting in Baghdad, near Babylon, this week to coincide with the March?

Mohammed told them not to build on the temple site because it belonged to the Jews they did not build until after his passing.
Maybe what Daniel meant was 1290 days are years and that the abomination stands that long .
Maybe the dome of the rock is the abomination completed in 691 or there about because they don't know when they started building and the rock was where Abraham was going to offer his son to God which is why the blessing he got was not only for him but also for all nations and peoples. For God then gave his son but that's another story.
Maybe the 1260 in Rev.the time of the gentiles is until the time of the Jews returning and becoming a nation.
Maybe the nation beginning 1260 + 691=1951 or there about.
maybe the beginning of tribulation 1290 + 691=1981 or there about.
Maybe the coming kingdom into fullness is the 1335 + 691=2026 or there about
Maybe when Jesus said this generation will not pass away until all things fulfilled that is the 65 yrs.
Just a spirit filled thought.

Originally posted by mikeprodigy
Mohammed told them not to build on the temple site because it belonged to the Jews they did not build until after his passing.
Maybe what Daniel meant was 1290 days are years and that the abomination stands that long .
Maybe the dome of the rock is the abomination completed in 691 or there about because they don't know when they started building and the rock was where Abraham was going to offer his son to God which is why the blessing he got was not only for him but also for all nations and peoples. For God then gave his son but that's another story.
Maybe the 1260 in Rev.the time of the gentiles is until the time of the Jews returning and becoming a nation.
Maybe the nation beginning 1260 + 691=1951 or there about.
maybe the beginning of tribulation 1290 + 691=1981 or there about.
Maybe the coming kingdom into fullness is the 1335 + 691=2026 or there about
Maybe when Jesus said this generation will not pass away until all things fulfilled that is the 65 yrs.
Just a spirit filled thought.

You should be an accountant.

I believe the abomination will be set up on a wing of the temple, in the court of the Gentiles. This agrees with what Daniel and Revelation say. I believe it will be set up as a victory symbol for the Arabs regaining control over Jerusalem in the VERY near future. They will set up this "victory symbol" in the Dome of the Rock, which is located on the wing of the ancient temple, in the location of the court of the Gentiles.

Consider one more thing. In Matthew 24, Jesus looked out upon Herod's Temple, and said not one stone would be left standing. Yet a remnant of Herod's temple still stands today, and that is the foundation stones at the Western Wall. I would suggest in the events soon to occur, that every stone will be thrown down of that ancient Temple. This coincides with Psalm 137:7,8 "Remember, O LORD, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell. "Tear it down," they cried, "tear it down to its foundations!" O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us--"

See, the Edomites who are the modern day Palestinians will be cheering on the Daughter of Babylon, which represents the modern day Iraqis and their allies as they march on Jerusalem, seeking to tear down the place of sanctuary for the Jews, which is the Wailing Wall, while elevating the place of abomination, which is the Dome of the Rock.

Just how I see it according to the Scriptures. I admit, its a very unique and minority view, but I have much more to explain.

Originally posted by hab22

Let me throw something into the mix that you probably have never heard.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

It's called Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy, during which time Judah is enslaved by Babylon for the 70 years of Schmita (sabbath rest for the land) that they ignored during the time of their kings.

From the time Nebuchadnezzar removed the sovereignty of Judah's kings (by installing a puppet on the throne) in 605 BC to the time when Babylon was overthrown in 538 BC only adds up to 66.5 years, which happens to be 3 1/2 years short of the 70 year prophecy.

The Babylonians were overthrown in 538 BC, but the Jews didn't return from captivity in 538 BC. Cyrus issued the decree for their return in his first year, 537 BC (according to ancient systems of dating reignal years, which don't include the first part-year when the king begins to reign). We see, then, that the Jews would have returned either well into 537 BC or in 536 BC. Either one fulfills the 70 years prophecy.

Now get a load of this. Jeremiah tells us what will happen when the 70 years are fulfilled. Babylon will be destroyed, never to be inhabited again, Jerusalem will become a city of holiness, never to be defiled again, the Lord will enter into a new covenant with Israel at that time and the cup of the Lord's wrath will be poured out on the nations. NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE YET OCCURRED. In fact, Jerusalem has been defiled many times over.

All of those things have occurred. Every single one of them. Again, ask me to give you the Scripture to back this up and I will.

Also, when Jeremiah writes, "The LORD has stirred up the kings of the Medes, because his purpose is to destroy Babylon" (Jeremiah 51:11), should we expect the Medes to appear again to destroy this "end times" Babylon, or should we rather say that this has been fulfilled already by the destruction of Babylon at the hands of the Medo-Persian Empire?

Any coincidence that Arab leaders are all meeting in Baghdad, near Babylon, this week to coincide with the March?

When what you expect to happen doesn't happen, then I think we'll be able to confidently say, yes, it's a coincidence

I take it none of you have ever read Kamal Al Salibi's ( A Lebanese Christian historian) book "The Bible Came from Arabia"

What if you are believing in a lie? (though I understand this is not a purposeful lie) but it's a mistake that makes all the difference in the world!

I personally have never known what to think of this man's book.... but he raised so many points one has to strongly consider them, what if we are ALL making HUGE mistakes right now in our understandings