I am a soldier, I have bills to pay and therefore I fight any enemy of my government.

Firstly your personal quandary over the situation is very heartening and you have my condolences that you have put yourself in this situation.

You're essentially asking....

Is being able to pay bills an acceptable reason to kill?


hmmmm

As a mother I would have to say NO. NEVER.

A story for you....

I have a friend who is very very religious ( I am not) and he told me of a story about some back packers/working travellers who worked with him, they were quite skint of money, so he told them go to the corn field and rip a couple from the paddock = food (It was not his farm by the way)

So they did and ate beautiful sweet corn fresh from the dirt for their dinner.

Since the back packers didn't get caught, my friend thought he would have a go too, even though he could have bought food,as he had money.
So he took himself off the next day and snatched some corn for his own dinner, unfortunately he got caught and charged with theft.
He went on to say that if things got really bad (food etc) he would steal to feed his kids. But in this instance he stole for himself for purely selfish reasons of entitlement and to see if he could, something like a personal dare.

This did not make very much sense to me, so I asked...
"Wouldn't you just ask for help first before resorting to theft if you had no money to feed your family?
Do you have no faith in your fellow man to help you, if your first thought is theft?"

As a mother, daughter and sister I would rather beg on my knees in the dirt before taking what is not mine
let alone going into someone else's country and pushing my way of life onto them as if they were less than me.

If this be ramble or if this be relevant, is up to you friend and I wish you well always.


Another thing to note, is that if you follow orders they become your orders, simple.

Originally posted by ken10

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by ken10

 

gaddafi is the one that sent out the SOS...for NATO and others to come in to provide cover...you should be blaming him for what happened in Libya.

I don't believe that is what happened, but either way he and his country were betrayed and now the resources that benefited the citizens of Libya will now be privatised for international corporations to profit from

Way to go dumb soldiers.

my cabinets and refrigerator are filled with the products manufactured by international corporations. i myself have worked at some of the biggest on the planet.

i'm 101% certain that you have no idea what Gaddafi was all about or how he came to power and even if I gave my opinion, you'd not be able to grasp it... and if you could grasp it...you wouldn't admit it.

nevertheless...you should share your feelings about him with a Libyan.

Originally posted by michaelbrux

Originally posted by ken10

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by ken10

 

gaddafi is the one that sent out the SOS...for NATO and others to come in to provide cover...you should be blaming him for what happened in Libya.

I don't believe that is what happened, but either way he and his country were betrayed and now the resources that benefited the citizens of Libya will now be privatised for international corporations to profit from

Way to go dumb soldiers.

my cabinets and refrigerator are filled with the products manufactured by international corporations. i myself have worked at some of the biggest on the planet.

i'm 101% certain that you have no idea what Gaddafi was all about or how he came to power and even if I gave my opinion, you'd not be able to grasp it... and if you could grasp it...you wouldn't admit it.

nevertheless...you should share your feelings about him with a Libyan.

Nothing to do with Gaddafi and what he was.......just about the standard of living of normal Libyan citizens had compared to ours, and how our soldiers have now robbed them from it.

reply to post by AussieAmandaC


i don't think its ramble...

but what I do think is ramble is when people that have done nothing at all are somehow blamed for every ill of the Earth.

someone puts on a pair of blue jeans t-shirt, gym shoes and ball cap all of the sudden they are American...if they break into a home and loot a families wealth...the lie is that an American did it. if the American who's parents were murdered and their home occupied try and rebuild their world...the very same criminal comes to accuse them of crimes. the very crimes they are guilty of committing.

no one is fooled.

reply to post by michaelbrux


WE are ALL responsible for this, therefore it is WE that have to fix it for US

Not ONE


MANY, many, many

reply to post by AussieAmandaC


i'm all for the situation being fixed.

but its apparent that the true nature of the crimes that have been committed are so atrocious that the people that committed them would sooner plunge the world into war and bring it to destruction rather than admit their roles in them.

then enters....the soldier.

Originally posted by ken10
So, A soldier fights for his government to pay his bills.... regardless of whether they are doing the right thing or not.

Like bombing to smithereens a country (Libya) who's citizens enjoyed having FREE electricity, PENNIES per Litre of fuel, $50,000 when they are married, 50% off the price of a new car etc etc etc.

If Libya could do it WHY CAN'T WE.........Because we have allowed corporations to take and profit from our national resources rather than letting it benefit its citizens.

Maybe the soldiers should think about this before they blindly go on a killing spree for a corporate run government who cares little for its citizens standard of living.

Worse, it seems that the government doesn't even care much about the ordinairy gruntsoldiers they hired. Waging war is busines as usual. A cost/benifit/loss calculation, the soldier is just but a number in the equation.

One of the reason why I started this thread is the interview I heared on Coast to Coast AM with an army physician who was, and is closely involved with veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome (GWS) or Gulf War illness (GWI). It is a chronic multisymptom disorder affecting veterans and civilians after the 1991 Gulf War.

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by zatara

 

A soldier should fight for the COUNTRY not the GOVERNMENT. Also, they should fight any enemies of the country, both foreign and DOMESTIC! This means the government can in fact, in itself, be an enemy to the country as a whole, and to the people, in which case it is the duty of the soldiers to fight this domestic enemy as well.

That is all really nice, theoretical and perfect but in reality it doesn't work that way. Those days are long gone, if they ever were.

reply to post by zatara


So your going to be willing to kill kids,'because thats where this is heading. I wonder what that makes you? Anyone who blindly follows orders regardless of morality is not only a criminal but a disgusting individual who should be in prison IMO.

reply to post by michaelbrux


I see what you mean now, yes the government wasnt designed to fight, or kill for that matter, but the military was, no matter how you look at it, military makes money by producing weapons and most importantly bullets.

Bullets you ask? why, why are they the most important? because no one is gonna count them, a weapon is made once, but the ammunition is produced all the time, so in order to make money from it, they create an enemy, and yes the government now a days, wether you like it or not is part of the military, if you read the law, all the workers in the political party are generals, and all come from military, and i mean even the citizens of a country.

Back to topic, you create this "enemy" then you send soldiers to fire their weapon, so that they can produce more ammo, they are there not to win, or loose, they are not there to inforce any laws or standards, they are there for one reason, to keep shooting for as long as they can.

And i personnaly dont see anyone as an enemy, because its not up to me to judge someone elses good or evil, i cannot do that, i can only judge my own. So same goes for the soldiers that listen to these idiots, or morons who ever they are that pointed the fingers, did these soldiers not go to school, or have parents to teach them that stealing is wrong?

Any soldier out there can just simply drop his weapon, and say "you know what, im done with this", so thats the point of the OP, that they dont, because they are their own enemy and their own evil, by making a moral decision to listen then obey the order to STEAL someone elses freedom, life, respect, and dignity.

The person who created the "enemy" is the enemy, since thats how he views the world around it, but no one has to listen to it, and the people that do, see profit in it, and profit only.

The country's they invade are a threat to Western way of living, they are a threat to the government and military that are making billions in money laundring during these wars. Any middle eastern country was well off before the russians and americans came in, no one paid taxes, everyone had exactly what they needed, people didnt fight or commit crime on the streets, if it was like that in america, damn, there would be no military, get it?

This is bit off topic but have you ever walked into a shopping center and seen a naked person shopping for clothing that he/she really needs? no, you see people dressed, have shoes, sox probably , but they are shopping, and for what? they already have what they need.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by zatara

 

So your going to be willing to kill kids,'because thats where this is heading. I wonder what that makes you? Anyone who blindly follows orders regardless of morality is not only a criminal but a disgusting individual who should be in prison IMO.

edit on 30-3-2012 by TheMindWar because: Typo

No...but thats one way to look at it. Do not be naive....you would not want to know how many children, babies, women and elderly have been killed by soldiers carrying out their orders.

The way I understand the army its succes is dependent of how orders are carried out. No normal person would give the order to excecute harmless civillians...but not all of them are normal and consider it collateral damage if there is no other solution to secure the objective.

But that is not entirely what this thread is about. It is about on what basis an individual will decide to join the army and what part the government plays in manipulating that decision. Has the individual all his priorities straight, is he well informed about the commitment, consequences and who he is fighting for.

Hold that thought while you snuff out grandma cowboy.