What is matter? No one knows.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj

 

im not saying those things are controlled,,,, im just saying, the universe exists with the amount of galaxies and planets and life and who knows what else,,,,, just on this planet alone all of what you know has occured,, the many types of diverse life and the many number of things people can do and have done,,,, out of all the things random chaotic energy can manifest abstractly into,, it is this universe we exist in and of,,, its just so complex and works so well,, theres so much of it,, theres so many people on this planet who live their life and gather experience as themselves and produce and feel,,, this life, whatever we are, is able to forge a formula for energy to behave in time,, i dont think its controlled,,, but i do think there are concepts and ideas and patterns, that are mirrored and prevalent throughout the creation,,,. like reality, everything about bio logical life is refracted onto human history and culture and what they drive for,,,, biological animals are a work of art, and science,,, there ability to exist and function smoothly,, the realness of existing,,,, i dont think its controlled,,, but i do think there is method to the madness

You think this way, not because of what you see, and not because of the way things are, but only because you have intelligence. If we had evolved into intelligent lobsters we would still be having this discussion. You would look at your strong claws and say, "Look how perfect they are; surely there is a method to this madness."

You wrote: "it is this universe we exist in and of,,, it's just so complex and works so well"

LOL Who says it works so well? Billions of stars explode all the time, taking out all of the surrounding planets (where life might have been living). Right now there's talk of the earth's magnetic field weakening. Will you still think the universe works so well when the solar winds break through our atmosphere and levels everything to smoke and ash?

Many have the notion that we were given an atmosphere of oxygen to help us breath. No, no, no. lol We exist in this form BECAUSE oxygen was here first. Oxygen wasn't MADE for us. It just happened to be here, so we just happened to evolve here. Other planets and moons have the neccessary ingredients for life, but planet earth just happened to be in the goldilocks zone.

I am of the opinion that everything in this universe is SO random that it's scary!

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by jiggerj
This universe had a beginning and it will have an end.

Why should whatever created this universe be immune from such cycles?

Energy is neither created nor destroyed.

Exactly! But it will change. It will go through cycles. A universe ends - something else begins. And this will happen 100% naturally.

Originally posted by Glass
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

I think you might be asking too much of us mere mortals.

Agreed, but it's still fun to contemplate. Great thread!

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Vibrations of what? Quantum foam made up of what? 1d strings of what? Massive clumps of what? Everyone seems to be missing the point of my inquiry.

LOL I don't think we're missing the point. You want to lead us to an answer of a god, and it just doesn't fit. It's not reasonable. Just as you've been asking what is an atom, what is quantum foam, a god would still qualify as a Something that should make you obligated to ask what is a god made of.

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.

Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.

reply to post by jiggerj


"You think this way, not because of what you see, and not because of the way things are, but only because you have intelligence. If we had evolved into intelligent lobsters we would still be having this discussion. You would look at your strong claws and say, "Look how perfect they are; surely there is a method to this madness." "

my intelligence is only an environment in my mind, which is a product of what i see, and the unavoidable way things are.....
intelligence is a individually created map of reality,,,, im not suggesting there is a god controlling every speck and instance of the universe,, but when i say method i mean a process,, that can occur,, and is cool that it is occuring,, it is interesting,, amazing,, entertaining,, inspiring,, it is what is, and what gives us everything we do, have and are,,,,, there is no good reason why the tinest spec of dust should exist,, yet, look at photos of earth,, look at photos from hubble and imagine the quadrillions of earths that exist,,,,,, everything exists,,, you sit in peace completely undisturbed, while every bug, animal, human, life on other planets,, lives out its epic and most meaningful existence,,, is it just the odds that eventually something called a man should come into existence and have its lessons and potentials and joys,, the design of the man, its abilities,,, is this idea something that can exist on its own conceptually,,, or does it have to be proven physically in action,,,,, the essence of me as i am is existing right now,,, this is the big deal with culture,,, ideas and abilities of potential,,,,, the american dream is some imaginative ideal of existence that comes from beyond man,, just as the culture of any peoples of earth is a blend of what is possible to accomplish with energy and time and surroundings, but there are personal touches of identity and insight, and probable paths to take,, ,, for it is something man is reaching to obtain,,, the potential for a way of thinking to create a certain type of society one that travels the stars or one that is a tribe for millennia and lives as the semi intelligent lobster,,, it is an issue of forces, control, power,,,,,,,

i just think so many themes are intertwined and related and inescapable,, i also know that rambling will make no sense and youll think i am a fool,,, sometimes i can be more clear with the way i see things, other times they are easier seen then said,,, not saying i see them right,,, but im trying to see what could be and why,,, its easy to dismiss everything,, intelligence is the source of human creation and it must be maintained and built,, ignorance is natural and easy,,,






"You wrote: "it is this universe we exist in and of,,, it's just so complex and works so well"

LOL Who says it works so well? Billions of stars explode all the time, taking out all of the surrounding planets (where life might have been living). Right now there's talk of the earth's magnetic field weakening. Will you still think the universe works so well when the solar winds break through our atmosphere and levels everything to smoke and ash?

i think it works well,,, sometimes our foot explodes to the ground and kills a bunch of ants,, lets say they die a quick death and thats the worst of their experience on earth,,, lets say that star explodes and instantly wipes out a planet,,, maybe all those who died will never be able to physically miss this existence,, maybe they wake up millennia later or too them moments on another planet as a lobster or man,



"Many have the notion that we were given an atmosphere of oxygen to help us breath. No, no, no. lol We exist in this form BECAUSE oxygen was here first. Oxygen wasn't MADE for us. It just happened to be here, so we just happened to evolve here. Other planets and moons have the neccessary ingredients for life, but planet earth just happened to be in the goldilocks zone. "

yes if it wasnt in the goldilocks zone, and didnt have oxygen we wouldnt be here,,, odds are there will be planets in the goldilocks zone, and that will cause the chance of life coming to be on these planets,,, if the gas on jupitar is not intelligent and self aware it wont know, care, or mind, it is not in the goldilock zone,,, the universe is so random maybe some point in eternal infinity jupitar will have a purpose or use,,




"I am of the opinion that everything in this universe is SO random that it's scary!"

funny, i take it you mean cosmic storms and asteroids etc,, im more scared of powerful people of earth then anything,,,

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.

Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.

Bogged down with the crux of your argument? Randomness does not exist. I'm not suggesting this means there is an old bearded ghost who is running everything. But there is a deeper understanding than assuming the universe is random or that the universe is a complex interaction between cause and effect. Neither of those assumptions or observations are accurate.

Intent does have a lot to do with the system you find yourself in. On a macro and micro scale. Evolution through 'randomness' is a theory that died awhile ago.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.

Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.

I'm not suggesting this means there is an old bearded ghost who is running everything.

Okay, so you do understand my use of randomness in the context of this thread. We're good.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj

 

there is no good reason why the tinest spec of dust should exist,,

I take it you mean there's no good explanation of how anything came into being. My answer: Sure there is. We just don't know what that explanation is yet.

Loved your full post. Just quoted this part to save on space.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

can anything be created or exist, that is not composed of atoms?

Yes atoms did not exist when the universe first arrived. It took millions of years for atoms to form.

reply to post by ecossiepossie


Nothing exists. Emptiness is form and form is emptiness.
youtu.be...

reply to post by ecossiepossie


Everything (the appearance that is appearing presently) does not come from millions of years ago. Millions of years ago is a story appearing presently. 'Atoms' is a story appearing presently. Can you see an 'atom'? Can you see 'millions of years ago'?
Only investigate what is real. There is nothing outside of 'this'.

youtu.be...

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ecossiepossie

 

Everything (the appearance that is appearing presently) does not come from millions of years ago. Millions of years ago is a story appearing presently. 'Atoms' is a story appearing presently. Can you see an 'atom'? Can you see 'millions of years ago'?
Only investigate what is real. There is nothing outside of 'this'.

youtu.be...

I would love to respond but I'm taking your advice and remaining in the present. Your post is so 2 hours and 24 minutes ago.

reply to post by jiggerj


Have you ever stepped out of now? Surely you do not need anyones advice to remain in the present. You are the present!!

reply to post by jiggerj


The writer of the post is a 'story' appearing presently. There is no writer, there is only what is appearing presently.

energy is the breath of God, it is his word that spoke everything into existence, and his word does not return to him void, that is why science cannot and will not ever be able to figure out the energy because science and faith in our creator do not really mix well. well I got the answer and if this problem keeps you up at night i am sorry because you have the rest of your life of sleeplessness unless you come to this conclusion! May God bless you and reveal himself unto you!

Originally posted by jostnr
energy is the breath of God, it is his word that spoke everything into existence, and his word does not return to him void, that is why science cannot and will not ever be able to figure out the energy because science and faith in our creator do not really mix well. well I got the answer and if this problem keeps you up at night i am sorry because you have the rest of your life of sleeplessness unless you come to this conclusion! May God bless you and reveal himself unto you!

All right, you took us there, so let's see if you can take us out of the dead end you call a god. The OP asked, What is matter. Then we answered, energy. Then the OP asked what is energy, then what are atoms, what is quantum foam...

So now it's your turn. What is god? I'm not even discussing whether or not he exists. Just what is he made of?

Keep in mind that there is one answer that cannot be acceptable. That answer would be 'pure consciousness'. "Consciousness is not a state of being. It's not even a thing. Consciousness is the result of either chemical or electronic impulses passing from one synaptic nerve to another synaptic nerve in a brain. A faulty synaptic nerve or loss of impulses in this area of the brain equals loss of consciousness. It's like a movie film breaking and leaving the theater screen blank.

reply to post by jiggerj


You/god is the empty/blank movie screen.
The images will never stop appearing between and on the blank.

The blankness/darkness/void/nothing is the only real. For it has to be present prior to any 'thing' appearing.

Matter is experience.
youtu.be...

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

You/god is the empty/blank movie screen.
The images will never stop appearing between and on the blank.

The blankness/darkness/void/nothing is the only real. For it has to be present prior to any 'thing' appearing.

edit on 31-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

You just said that god is nothing and has no information. But, where are the never-stop-appearing images coming from?