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What is matter? No one knows.

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posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.


Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.


I'm not suggesting this means there is an old bearded ghost who is running everything.


Okay, so you do understand my use of randomness in the context of this thread. We're good.
you guys come on youguys nothing is random.Youve obviously never seen my sock drawer or wardrobe or my last haircut.Off course things can an will be random .Randomness led to you an me being created through random mutations in eveoution . Slight random mutations made organisims that had a better chance of surviveing an there offspring flourishing.This wasnt planed just blind random luck .Also you guys talk as if you actually think or know what you are saying is true. If this were in any case possable then I must be talking to ...The persona thingymijigg sourse god or whatever it was that made this big chunck of random /// non random real estate?If this is the case an Im talking to a deity ? Then spill whats the deal with Justin Beiber? Did you just inflict him on us as a punishment like the great flood or herpiess an H I V .oR is he your idea of a joke ? If so you may be deitys but your sence of humour took a bypass many eons ago. Now a Duckbilled platiplus thats funny Justin Beiber thats just lame Man / Lady /Sourse Dude or whatever the phluck you want to be known as.......PPPS JUST IN CASE JUSTIN BEIBER IS THE SECOND COMEING .I Still think he is a knobhead an would gladly spend etrnitty in hell to let you know this,




posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Emptiness is form.
youtu.be...



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by ecossiepossie
.I Still think he is a knobhead an would gladly spend etrnitty in hell to let you know this,


So it is written. So let it be done.


In the purest sense of the word (Randomness), there is no such thing. You wake up in a grumpy mood because of poor diet, or because of events that happened yesterday, or that you have a disease.... Whatever caused you to wake up grumpy, it's not random. There is an explanation.

There are many topics here on ATS that I don't respond to. I can tell you that I'm just not interested politics, but that's not true. There's probably a lifelong explanation for my lack of interest even if I don't know what it is. Nobody 'JUST' likes or dislikes something.

Why are we attracted to certain people and not attracted at all to others? There's an explanation for it.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Emptiness is form.
youtu.be...


And some form is emptiness, like the message in that clip. Jeez!



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Emptiness is form = form is emptiness, not 'some' form 'all' form..

edit on 31-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by ecossiepossie
.I Still think he is a knobhead an would gladly spend etrnitty in hell to let you know this,


So it is written. So let it be done.


In the purest sense of the word (Randomness), there is no such thing. You wake up in a grumpy mood because of poor diet, or because of events that happened yesterday, or that you have a disease.... Whatever caused you to wake up grumpy, it's not random. There is an explanation.

There are many topics here on ATS that I don't respond to. I can tell you that I'm just not interested politics, but that's not true. There's probably a lifelong explanation for my lack of interest even if I don't know what it is. Nobody 'JUST' likes or dislikes something.
So Im going to Hell because of Justin Beiber.Thought it was just a random disslike.Now I know the reason why. PLS PPLS PLS Dont send him down there to keep me company.
Why are we attracted to certain people and not attracted at all to others? There's an explanation for it.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Emptiness is form = form is emptiness, not 'some' form 'all' form..

edit on 31-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


congratulations you solved the mystery of the universe,, describing all things in about 6 words,,, i can see the math you used works,,, i also cant see what is inside me,, i am a form,,, but i believe inside me is nothing,, because form is emptiness,,, thank you!!! its really nice now that i dont have to think or worry about anything,,, I also realize that this philosophy might as well be a solution not to think and worry about anything........ we start with a problem,,,, everything is hard and confusing, and complex, i dont get it,,, how can i solve this problem,,, imagine everything naked? no.... how about imagine everything is empty and really nothing,,,,



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.


Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.


I'm not suggesting this means there is an old bearded ghost who is running everything.


Okay, so you do understand my use of randomness in the context of this thread. We're good.


Yeah.. i understand it to be inaccurate.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by jostnr
energy is the breath of God, it is his word that spoke everything into existence, and his word does not return to him void, that is why science cannot and will not ever be able to figure out the energy because science and faith in our creator do not really mix well. well I got the answer and if this problem keeps you up at night i am sorry because you have the rest of your life of sleeplessness unless you come to this conclusion! May God bless you and reveal himself unto you!


All right, you took us there, so let's see if you can take us out of the dead end you call a god. The OP asked, What is matter. Then we answered, energy. Then the OP asked what is energy, then what are atoms, what is quantum foam...

So now it's your turn. What is god? I'm not even discussing whether or not he exists. Just what is he made of?

Keep in mind that there is one answer that cannot be acceptable. That answer would be 'pure consciousness'. "Consciousness is not a state of being. It's not even a thing. Consciousness is the result of either chemical or electronic impulses passing from one synaptic nerve to another synaptic nerve in a brain. A faulty synaptic nerve or loss of impulses in this area of the brain equals loss of consciousness. It's like a movie film breaking and leaving the theater screen blank.
edit on 3/31/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


"A faulty synaptic nerve or loss of impulses in this area of the brain equals loss of consciousness. It's like a movie film breaking and leaving the theater screen blank."

How would you possibly know this? Because the body stops telling you it's conscious? The body is an EXPRESSION of consciousness. Your argument is akin to claiming shutting off your radio turns the station's signal off. Let go of the pop-sci dogma.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by ecossiepossie

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

randomness? delusion. Give me an example of something random. Actually.. don't bother. Just go read about it on wikipedia. It does not exist in Reality.. doesn't exist in non-reality either.


Now, now, let's not get bogged down in word descriptions. You KNOW what is meant by 'randomness' in the context of this discussion. Yes, everything in the universe occurs because of previous logical events, but these events are not intelligently manipulated. There is no omnipotent finger knocking over dominoes. There is no intent. There are no ulterior motives in the designing of the cosmos. If you can think of a better word to replace 'randomness' I'm all for it.


I'm not suggesting this means there is an old bearded ghost who is running everything.


Okay, so you do understand my use of randomness in the context of this thread. We're good.
you guys come on youguys nothing is random.Youve obviously never seen my sock drawer or wardrobe or my last haircut.Off course things can an will be random .Randomness led to you an me being created through random mutations in eveoution . Slight random mutations made organisims that had a better chance of surviveing an there offspring flourishing.This wasnt planed just blind random luck .Also you guys talk as if you actually think or know what you are saying is true. If this were in any case possable then I must be talking to ...The persona thingymijigg sourse god or whatever it was that made this big chunck of random /// non random real estate?If this is the case an Im talking to a deity ? Then spill whats the deal with Justin Beiber? Did you just inflict him on us as a punishment like the great flood or herpiess an H I V .oR is he your idea of a joke ? If so you may be deitys but your sence of humour took a bypass many eons ago. Now a Duckbilled platiplus thats funny Justin Beiber thats just lame Man / Lady /Sourse Dude or whatever the phluck you want to be known as.......PPPS JUST IN CASE JUSTIN BEIBER IS THE SECOND COMEING .I Still think he is a knobhead an would gladly spend etrnitty in hell to let you know this,


"Randomness led to you an me being created through random mutations in eveoution " And there lies the root of your borrowed ignorance. The only people who still believe in Darwin's THEORY of evolution are the one's who conveniently mistook it for fact so as not to have to deal with the alternative. Which is more work.

EPIGENETICS. Randomness does not exist. Evolution is not a result of random mutations. Evolution is fact. Darwin's theory is long been discarded along with the flat earth theory.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Emptiness is form = form is emptiness, not 'some' form 'all' form..

edit on 31-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


congratulations you solved the mystery of the universe,, describing all things in about 6 words,,, i can see the math you used works,,, i also cant see what is inside me,, i am a form,,, but i believe inside me is nothing,, because form is emptiness,,, thank you!!! its really nice now that i dont have to think or worry about anything,,, I also realize that this philosophy might as well be a solution not to think and worry about anything........ we start with a problem,,,, everything is hard and confusing, and complex, i dont get it,,, how can i solve this problem,,, imagine everything naked? no.... how about imagine everything is empty and really nothing,,,,


What was the problem again? Oh yeah.. nothing. Hey maybe everything is nothing after all?

Well more accurate might be.. no thing exists that is not Real/actual. And if you keep investigating things like matter or 'the problem' and keep finding nothing.. than maybe it is true that they are not actual. But REALLY knowing that would put an end to it. So.. let's stick with the confusion.. We don't not want to not exist do we? Let's keep the delusion going for as long as possible. Our identity is literally hinged on denial of Reality. if our denial ends so to do we.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh
How would you possibly know this? Because the body stops telling you it's conscious? The body is an EXPRESSION of consciousness. Your argument is akin to claiming shutting off your radio turns the station's signal off. Let go of the pop-sci dogma.


HA! In one post you wrote: "The only people who still believe in Darwin's THEORY of evolution are the one's who conveniently mistook it for fact so as not to have to deal with the alternative." Which is more work.

Then you spew some crap about shutting of the radio turns the station signal off. Well, DO THE WORK and provide us with evidence of a consciousness that doesn't need a biological or mechanical machine to produce it.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh
How would you possibly know this? Because the body stops telling you it's conscious? The body is an EXPRESSION of consciousness. Your argument is akin to claiming shutting off your radio turns the station's signal off. Let go of the pop-sci dogma.


HA! In one post you wrote: "The only people who still believe in Darwin's THEORY of evolution are the one's who conveniently mistook it for fact so as not to have to deal with the alternative." Which is more work.

Then you spew some crap about shutting of the radio turns the station signal off. Well, DO THE WORK and provide us with evidence of a consciousness that doesn't need a biological or mechanical machine to produce it.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Try and keep it together. This might be tuff to swallow.

Actually the work to disprove the basic premise has been done. Read up on Epigenetics for starters. Many of the experiments were done 20+ years ago. But the Scientific authority has an agenda as plain as the Catholic church so these things take time. That is why, sadly, Darwin's theory of Evolution is still taught in schools as FACT and the scientific authority turns the issue into a "Religion vs Science" issue. Just read up on Epigenetics that will get you moving into the 20th century.

Now let's get to the science of consciousness. Believe it or not it's one of the OLDEST most well documented sciences in history. The hypothesis of consciousness beyond death is an extremely OLD hypothesis. Extremely old. Any science devotee knows that a hypothesis is not fact. It is an idea that remains to be proven. Well the hypothesis of an afterlife consciousness HAS been many many many times. The issue is this: If you want to EXPERIENCE the proof (as apposed to blindly believing it) YOU have to conduct the experiment. Right? Seems reasonable right?

If you want to just read about it and believe it the same way you just read about atoms, electrons, quarks and anti-matter and believe them you can. Pick up any of the thousands of pages of available material, read it and believe it as fact. Because the authors didn't just write about the hypothesis, they explain in EXCRUCIATING detail the experiment and the results.

But people don't believe it because THEY WON'T CONDUCT THE EXPERIMENT. I can sit here all day and say SHOW ME A QUARK!. Show me one. So when you scream "SHOW ME THE PROOF" you sound like someone demanding to see a quark.

If you want to experience, not just believe, but experience the PROOF of an afterlife consciousness you need to conduct the experiment. The easiest way to do this would be to die. But man's thirst for knowledge has even lead to a safer more acceptable proof. The experiment is as complicated and difficult to reproduce as building an LHC and looking for the Higgs Boson.. but it's already been done and reproduced and proven many times over.

Curious? Meditate. It will likely take you 20 of active and focused work. But the result is guaranteed.

But i know.. you want to see the quark...
edit on 1-4-2012 by rwfresh because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh
Now let's get to the science of consciousness. Believe it or not it's one of the OLDEST most well documented sciences in history. The hypothesis of consciousness beyond death is an extremely OLD hypothesis. Extremely old. Any science devotee knows that a hypothesis is not fact. It is an idea that remains to be proven. Well the hypothesis of an afterlife consciousness HAS been many many many times. The issue is this: If you want to EXPERIENCE the proof (as apposed to blindly believing it) YOU have to conduct the experiment. Right? Seems reasonable right?

If you want to just read about it and believe it the same way you just read about atoms, electrons, quarks and anti-matter and believe them you can. Pick up any of the thousands of pages of available material, read it and believe it as fact. Because the authors didn't just write about the hypothesis, they explain in EXCRUCIATING detail the experiment and the results.

But people don't believe it because THEY WON'T CONDUCT THE EXPERIMENT. I can sit here all day and say SHOW ME A QUARK!. Show me one. So when you scream "SHOW ME THE PROOF" you sound like someone demanding to see a quark.

If you want to experience, not just believe, but experience the PROOF of an afterlife consciousness you need to conduct the experiment. The easiest way to do this would be to die. But man's thirst for knowledge has even lead to a safer more acceptable proof. The experiment is as complicated and difficult to reproduce as building an LHC and looking for the Higgs Boson.. but it's already been done and reproduced and proven many times over.

Curious? Meditate. It will likely take you 20 of active and focused work. But the result is guaranteed.

But i know.. you want to see the quark...
edit on 1-4-2012 by rwfresh because: (no reason given)


Wow! Good job in keeping with the topic. You just verbally vomited a whole bunch of nothing there. Wow! When you talk about proof of an afterlife are you talking about near death experiences where the oxygen depletion in the brain causes weird dreams? Gawd I hope not.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj


Wow! Good job in keeping with the topic. You just verbally vomited a whole bunch of nothing there. Wow! When you talk about proof of an afterlife are you talking about near death experiences where the oxygen depletion in the brain causes weird dreams? Gawd I hope not.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Another ignorant parishioner proselytizing from the pews of the Church of Science! Have fun!



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Vibrations of what? Quantum foam made up of what? 1d strings of what? Massive clumps of what? Everyone seems to be missing the point of my inquiry.


What is the point we are all missing?
edit on 1-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by Rocketman7
 


can anything be created or exist, that is not composed of atoms?


Well that is something that no one knows. That is like saying what is the largest number that man can think of.

Or is there something smaller than Plank length that exists as real?

You see single bubble of quantum foam, we consider that to be real because we consider anything smaller than Plank length to be imaginary.

For instance the line between things we can detect and things which we suspect are there but cannot detect is Plank Length.

So when we observe virtual particles coming into existence and then going back out of existence, they are crossing that line. When we create a Bosenova when it implodes some of the matter disappears, then it explodes and reappears. It is crossing that line. The line between the real and imaginary, but the reason we say it is imaginary and not real, is because below that line we cannot detect it. So we are saying then, that all real things must fall into the category of our being able to detect them.

We know there are things outside of that category, things we cannot detect but exist. And often we only see the effect they have on other things and by that we take a leap of faith and then say that there is evidence that it exists because it is affecting things around it. Black holes show up by the effect they have on their surroundings as a for instance.

So because our universe works with constants, in physics. There are constant quantities of things that you can measure in one spot, and it will be the same across the universe. We assume things are consistent across the universe and what we discover to be true here, applies for our entire reality anywhere.

And our reality then has a set of values, that are used. That is to say, the periodic table of elements, they are all in a set. And their values don't vary because if they did, from one day or one moment to the next, things would be changing into different elements. Now its metal, now its crystal, now its something else and no large molecules would be possible, because nothing would stay together. But it does, and it all fits together into molecules and substances.

BUT! That means that our perceptions and our ability to detect things is limited to those things which exist within that set.

That in no way proves that there are not many many other things outside of that set.

For instance you have the spectrum of light. It goes on to eternity in both directions on the scale as far as we know. Our existence is limited to a stretch of values on that scale. Thats one example and also the quantum leap factor, where by, and this has always puzzled philosophers, how do you ever get from point A to point B when in between is infinite space?
If you can divide the distance between A and B for ever, then that means there is infinite space between two points, but it takes a quantum leap, to get from A to B, across infinite space.

So you see fortunately for us, since we exist in our universe and it has a set of values that it uses, due to 2 fundamental properties, one being the pressure of expansion of the universe into vacant space, and the tensile strength of the underlying superconducting superfluid, that we know exists but cannot detect. The skin on the bubbles is made of that liquid and we cannot directly detect it because its the very fabric of space-time itself.

But if you could go into a worm-hole, then you would be outside of that liquid and those quantum foam bubbles and THEN you would have no inertia, no resistance from acceleration that you feel when you step on the gas, and you could travel from A to B faster than light.

Beyond that there are things we imagine to exist, which have no atoms. Even though it takes atoms for us to think about them, the things themselves exist to us, but have no atoms of their own.
From philosophy you have form and you have substance.
You see evidence of Santa Claus everywhere and he exists on every corner in New York every Christmas, but he has no atoms of his own.You can deny that he is a real person, but there he is asking you to help charity. You can deny he lives in the North Pole. The real Santa of course being a imagined person. But still he is affecting the world and by his affect on the world we can detect his presence. Yet he is a made up person.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Vibrations of what? Quantum foam made up of what? 1d strings of what? Massive clumps of what? Everyone seems to be missing the point of my inquiry.


What is the point we are all missing?
edit on 1-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
The point is She wants to no whhat matter is .? I said matter are teeny ween weeny waves of pure energy with absulutely no material reality to them They exist but not as solis matter as nothing in this reality is made of solid matter.It gives us the illussion on solidity but its all just pure energey Now thease plank lengths of vibrating waves of enrgy combine with others an forn form complex structures like nutrinos an quarks an loads an loads more,Wich can then form into atoms. Now threaase atoms are all different sizes an are made from mostly empty space.But things move so fast within thease atoms to us they apear solid .As we to are made of atoms. So solid matter does not exsist it just seems to us because we can touch stuff an feel it . But what we are experienceinging is the teeny weeny planks of energy .Resisting an pushing against each other wich we experience as touching a solid object.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Rocketman7
 


"Well that is something that no one knows. That is like saying what is the largest number that man can think of."

I kind of just asked because i was wondering if it is possible for man to physically create something without using atoms,, in your writing you say nature has produced micro substance that is not composed of atoms, but other then that, and down to the plank length, the universe is composed of the same stuff,



"So when we observe virtual particles coming into existence and then going back out of existence, they are crossing that line."

I dont understand the science talk of virtual particles,,,, to me they would most likely be caused from some event in the universe,, ( any particle of energy sent out from a star or galaxy, traveling through space to be detected by us,,, also the speeds at which these quantom events occur, it seems like we could easily say these particles come from nowhere, the plank length of vacuumed space, because it is so very difficult to measure where they truly came from,,,, can you explain what these virtual particles mean,, in themselves and for the void of the universe,, and for how the universe may have come into existence,?

"Black holes show up by the effect they have on their surroundings as a for instance."

I think a black hole is similar to the eye of a tornado,, i dont think its a physical object,, but the way scientists view space as a little bit of something more then nothing,, the mass and energy of a galaxy spedily rotating around a large pocket of space, may give that area of space some interesting characteristics,..



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj


Wow! Good job in keeping with the topic. You just verbally vomited a whole bunch of nothing there. Wow! When you talk about proof of an afterlife are you talking about near death experiences where the oxygen depletion in the brain causes weird dreams? Gawd I hope not.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Another ignorant parishioner proselytizing from the pews of the Church of Science! Have fun!

Another adult child that goes around saying, JUST BELIEVE WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER! MAGIC IS REAL! WOOD NYMPHS AND UNICORNS ARE REAL! JUST BELIEVE IT!



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