Were you born religious or is it something you learnt?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Were you born a christian, a muslim, a jew or do you have to learn these religions? Or are you born an atheist? What happens if you are born an atheist but have religious parents?

I would argue that you are taught your religion and that the teaching will depend on whom you are born to. So was your birth a pure chance or was it predetermined by a god that you had yet to learn about?

edit on 25-3-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

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No one is born religious, it is something that is learned. Some religions do not give you a choice to choose your path (Islam) that path is chosen for you by who your father is, which is why muslim fathers will not allow their daughters to marry a non-muslim. Christianity cannot be forced on a person, they must choose to accept Christ or refuse him when they come of age, or when the option is presented to them to know of him, so no one is born christian (although some christian parents will try to force it on their children which and that is wrong, and is what leads to those children rebelling and becomming atheist or agnostic or some other religion). As for Hindu, same as Islam and same for Buddhism. Some "religions" like Islam, will actually kill you if you were born muslim and convert to christianity or some other religion under their self styled Apostacy laws (Sharia).

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


empathy is an act of compassion, I believe that is on a spiritual level... it has not proven to come to mankind naturally.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Yeah we all are capable of horrible things. Thank you captain obvious.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

empathy is an act of compassion, I believe that is on a spiritual level... it has not proven to come to mankind naturally.

I suppose you'd be completely uninterested in the evolution of social dynamics. Which is a more grounded explanation than spirituality.

Also, it seems somewhat hypocritical. Unless it has to be proven to be natural otherwise it's only reasonable to assume it's spiritual. Considering how spirituality having any objective factual-ness behind it has never been close to proven, it's a dissonance in standards.

This isn't the thread to argue whether or not spirituality is a real thing, I'm not trying to challenge that. I'm only challenging the idea that you have to assume it's spiritual in nature just because it supposedly hasn't been proven to be natural.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


empathy is a learned... we can probably study chimps and learn this?

isn't that the number #1 job of the parent?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
No one is born religious, it is something that is learned. Some religions do not give you a choice to choose your path (Islam) that path is chosen for you by who your father is, which is why muslim fathers will not allow their daughters to marry a non-muslim. Christianity cannot be forced on a person, they must choose to accept Christ or refuse him when they come of age, or when the option is presented to them to know of him, so no one is born christian (although some christian parents will try to force it on their children which and that is wrong, and is what leads to those children rebelling and becomming atheist or agnostic or some other religion). As for Hindu, same as Islam and same for Buddhism. Some "religions" like Islam, will actually kill you if you were born muslim and convert to christianity or some other religion under their self styled Apostacy laws (Sharia).

edit on 25-3-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. ...

I could, honestly, fill all the characters allocated in a single post with scriptures like this.

Also, as far as not being able to marry one in others faiths, many scriptures could be cited on the topic as well. Though not quite as many, I know many Christian Sects forbid it, including the one I was raised in.

Fundamental Islam is horrid. However, fundamental Christianity is equally horrid. Moderate Christianity, where they interpret away the horribleness and allow room for morality from secular sources, is no better than Moderate Islam.

You're proposing to take the best instances of one religion, and compare it to the worst instances in another. That's horrible biased. Also, while I can't speak for Hindu, I can say most branches of Buddhism do not. And again, the better more moderate sects of either for sure don't.

~
Also, no need to put quotations around "religion". Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism are all religions just as much as Christianity, no need to act like they actually aren't.

~
The first step towards tolerance is understanding. And by intentionally misrepresenting groups you don't identify with, to show them in worse lights, and also misrepresenting those you do to seem much better, you cut yourself off from any understanding. You also make yourself sound ridiculous.

reply to post by Akragon


Hey man your boy Jesus turned water into wine. And not only that It was freaking delicious too! John 2:10

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

empathy is a learned... we can probably study chimps and learn this?

isn't that the number #1 job of the parent?

Thanks for bringing up chimps, that's a topic that gives a better response.

Not just chimps, but many non-human animals are seen expressing empathy and compassion. Meaning that, neither are human specific. Considering how most spiritualists believe spirituality to be human specific(as far as I'm aware at least) that'd mean that, at least by that belief, empathy and compassion have to be from non-spiritual sources.

Also, empathy is natural in us. It's an innate trait in everybody except for Psychopaths or Socialpaths(both being illnesses defined as being without empathy.) It's something that grows and develops(And, If I recall correctly, takes over twenty years of our lives to finish developing) in us. It can be strengthened, and intentionally brought out, but it's not something that be 'taught' in the conventionally sense of the word.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


I just believe more of empathy is taught, it seems to be the constant struggle of the parent (as an observer) and looking at history it would not seem one of our best qualities.

and it is sure seemingly easy to teach this 'lack-of' empathy, we need only to look at Hitler for that.

I was born into religion but I for instance LEARNED to spell in grade school.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
and it is sure seemingly easy to teach this 'lack-of' empathy, we need only to look at Hitler for that.

Hitler taught that the Jews were dangerous and needed to be monitored(Hey, that sounds familiar, I think some other religious groups have faced the same accusations recently). He taught that all of Germanys woes had been intentionally their fault. He used Demonization tactics to make them seem sub-human. He made many Germans see them, not as people, but as vermin that were hurting everyone else.

He never taught "Hey, this is how to not feel for others," nor did he even teach "This is how to ignore you feelings for others." What he did was put everyone in a mind-frame regarding the Jews that no one saw them as fellow humans. Hitler didn't teach lack-of empathy, he just created a situation where one's innate empathy wouldn't be pulled out(Again, by having people see them as vermin instead of as people)

However, many more posts regarding if Empathy is Spiritual or not have been done than expected. Maybe a topic of it's own could be made. Being as how it's not relevant to the OP, I'd rather not continue on that here.

I was born... well... naked.

Dont know about you all...

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


Hitler had mass influence over alot of people... I wonder how that was so?

is it really in our nature to be violent zombies so that much easier?

(you know as a group)

humans are violent and destructive by nature... they need to be taught empathy and that comes from a spiritual level be it religion, nu age oneness or even a parent disciplining a child and correcting/educating the offsprings.

reply to post by pthena

Okay, you talked me into it. I just bought it.

YAY!! Fightin' the good fight....I'm glad you decided to check it out!
You won't be disappointed, I promise, especially considering your "secular Tangristianity"

And then there will be one more of us out there pimping it....just like it's supposed to work.

I'm very unlikely to sacrifice a horse under a tree on a hilltop. I have no plan to, and if some one invited me to attend such an event, I would decline. I do, however, continue to breathe, without any ceremony, but with some appreciation.

Love it! Anyone comes near one of my horses (or ANY horse on my watch), with intentions like that is likely to think it over very carefully while in the hospital recovering from the painful aftermath of said failed assassination.

One of the benefits of being a holder of obsolete religion is the fact that I can take it as little or as far as I feel appropriate, without fear of judgment from other believers (no pressure to conform).

I know that's right, brother!

reply to post by Akragon

Where else would a two year old learn to be violent if not from their parents or others?

In a child, violence is a learned behaviour... the child learns that he/she gets what he wants by acting out...

Hey, Akra....!
Um, as a specialist in Children and Families from a socio and psychological pov (MSW), who studied and taught early childhood devlopment and continues to keep up with the latest...I offer this:

a 2-year old is "violent" through the survival instinct, and they are now discovering that even infants and toddlers (preverbal) have an innate sense of justice. A new sib born into a family of 3 (mom, dad, toddler) is going to seem threatening (indeed, IS threatening) to a two-year-old, who now must share his mom and dad's time and attention.

Every child is different as well: some will welcome a new sib, some will resent such intrusion. Depends on the temperament they are born with. As a photographer of newborns in the neonate ward, I met dozens and dozens of babies and their parents within 2 days of the child's birth.

Some years after having studied it (and taught it at a National Conference on prevention of child abuse in 2006) I had the chance to observe the variety of reactions that babies have to the same stimulus (foot prick for blood draw, bright lights, noise, commotion, being dressed/undressed, handled, positioned, etc.).

I was acutely aware of the differences; each of those newbies had their unique degree of serenity, sense of safety, tolerance levels, etc.

Fascinating thing, the human being. I tend to think the more serene babies are the "older" souls, while the fussier ones might be not as far along the "spiritual" journey yet, or are entering a pre-determined (between lives) lifetime of "difficulty" due to whatever spiritual lesson they needed to overcome/learn from.

WAY too complex a thing to sum up in 3 sentences. Temperament, learning style, innate intelligence, acuity of senses, condition of environment (quiet vs chaotic), the personalities of the parents and other "social contacts".....all combine uniquely. It's the parents' job to recognize the BABY's temperament and learning style, and adapt their OWN behavior to optimize the baby's learning through environmental stimulus.

We are really only beginning to "crack the code" of the brain, psychology is a nebulous study (some call it 'pseudo-science' despite the great strides made of late), but we are learning more and more about the brain-mind connection and how its development is affected by environment.

reply to post by wildtimes


hi there hun...

thanks for your insight... i actually work in healthcare myself... but children scare me a little like i said previously...

Perhaps you are right... maybe the babies that don't tend to fuss a lot are "older souls"...

My experience with children is limited... but maybe someday, if i find the right person... my time to deal with them will come... God willing

take care my friend

reply to post by Akragon


You're quite welcome!
I left out the part that I raised two kids of my own....and spent a great deal of time studying on the then-considered "best practices".....
My kids (one of each gender) are very different; and the feeling that they each had been born with innate spiritual-maturity has borne out in real life.
But that's not the point of this thread.

Always good to tty!

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Grew up agnostic / little biblical knowledge. Became a Christian a year or two after I became an adult.

I do not consider my faith to be a religion.