Who Is George Zimmerman and What About the Police?

Zimmerman's lawyer has come out and said he doesn't think Stand Your Ground is applicable and they will be going with self defense.

“In my legal opinion, that’s not really applicable to this case. The statute on ‘stand your ground’ is primarily when you’re in your house,” said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman.

wtvr.com

I have been a long time lurker on this site, and decided to create an account because this incident is really bothering me. I live in Florida, not too far from where this took place and I can't begin to tell you what a media circus this has become here. With that being said, race relations in this state are not the best to begin with and it almost seems like this is pushing it to a boiling point here. It's forcing everybody to take sides and in doing so I think we are all losing site of what really happened. One human killed another human.

I understand having outrage about a young man losing his life as it is truly terrible, but why must it be a race issue? From everything I have read it has never been documented that Zimmerman was or is a racist correct? I think that he would have followed anybody he saw that night regardless of age,gender,or skin color. It's really disturbing how the media, and a great many people are spinning this case.

reply to post by XxCanexX


I agree. Race may or may not be a factor in this case and it's just a distraction to add drama (as if we need more of that)... People are addicted to drama, angst and anger/hatred these days, it seems. There's enough of a tragedy here to evaluate without bringing suppositions of racial issues into it, too.

My position is that this is NOT a hate crime, either. Zimmerman wasn't out scouting for black people. He was out scouting for "suspicious activity". In previous 911 phone calls, he had reported a garage door open, a window ajar, suspicious cars and even a pitbull one time. I don't think he focused on Trayvon because he was black. It was because he was a stranger to Zimmerman's neighborhood (he thought). I DO think Zimmerman is prejudiced, but that's not against the law. The killing wasn't motivated by Trayvon's race, it was motivated by Zimmerman's irrational fears and his longing to be a cop and "make the neighborhood safe". The fact that Trayvon was black was just a bonus to George Zimmerman.

The hate crime push and racial talk is all irrelevant to the law in this case and instead, appeals to the emotional. Personally, I find prejudice and racial profiling disgusting and morally backward, but people are free to have their own thoughts. We need to look at the FACTS of the case and leave the racism out of it, IMO.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I agree. Race may or may not be a factor in this case and it's just a distraction to add drama

I disagree. IF race was an issue in this, then it does us no good to ignore it. IF it was an issue, on Zimmerman's side or on the side of Sanford PD, then it was a contributing factor and it does no good to to pretend it was not.

I mean, if it was another abstract concept involved, like sexism, would we be so quick to brush it under the rug? Would we say "Oh, the sexism aspect of it is just drama"?

I don't know. However, It COULD very well be that Zimmerman targeted Martin because of his race, why should we ignore that?

reply to post by TsukiLunar


I agree, I do think race was an issue in the case in more aspects than one and if so it does us no good to ignore it. I wish it wasn't. I believe that assumptions at the scene wouldn't have been made by the police if Trayvon had been anything but black. I don't think Zimmerman would have been suspicious or called the police if Trayvon had been anything but black, hoodie or not, because according to neighbors he often knocked on their doors and told them to watch out for young black males that were unfamiliar...not young males that were unfamiliar, young black males.

Certainly if the case had played out exactly the same and it were a white 17 year old boy in a hoodie, I believe there wouldn't be a single person on ATS that's been vocal about this case, NOT outraged...maybe even out marching too, demanding justice. There are those on this forum that would be reacting completely different, not digging into a dead child's facebook and twitter in some attempt to covertly say that we're better off for his death. And just to be fair, I doubt we'd have heard a word from Al Sharpton, The Black Panthers or Jesse Jackson.

reply to post by Kali74


It is, in my opinion, that you are right. Obviously there is reason to think that race played a big part in the incident and, in my opinion, that is worthy of discussion.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Kali74

 

It is, in my opinion, that you are right. Obviously there is reason to think that race played a big part in the incident and, in my opinion, that is worthy of discussion.

It seems it is at least part of it.

I just want to point out - - racism has what I would call "levels". People can have mixed ethnicity/race in their immediate personal life with no problem - - - but be racist against who they think are more apt to commit a crime.

Those saying Zimmerman is not racist because he is mixed/race - - has relatives of mixed race - - mentored a black child - - etc in his personal life (people he personally knows) - - - does not necessary carry over to his "wannabe" cop mentality. He seems to be "criminally" racist in his profiling against young black men.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
However, It COULD very well be that Zimmerman targeted Martin because of his race, why should we ignore that?

I'm not saying it should be ignored. I'm saying it will be VERY hard to prove this is a hate crime. I believe that if the kid was white, he'd be alive. But that is impossible to prove. It's going to be fairly easy to prove that Zimmerman murdered this kid. Where the racial issue needs attention is in the police dept of the area. The pattern of black victim's killers walking is something to be investigated outside this case.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
However, It COULD very well be that Zimmerman targeted Martin because of his race, why should we ignore that?

I'm not saying it should be ignored. I'm saying it will be VERY hard to prove this is a hate crime. I believe that if the kid was white, he'd be alive. But that is impossible to prove. It's going to be fairly easy to prove that Zimmerman murdered this kid. Where the racial issue needs attention is in the police dept of the area. The pattern of black victim's killers walking is something to be investigated outside this case.

Love your Hoodie.

I'm not sure I'd say Zimmerman murdered Tayvon - - there'd have to be intent.

I think he definitely created the situation that lead to Tayvon's death. That would be Manslaughter.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Kali74

 

It is, in my opinion, that you are right. Obviously there is reason to think that race played a big part in the incident and, in my opinion, that is worthy of discussion.

It seems it is at least part of it.

I just want to point out - - racism has what I would call "levels". People can have mixed ethnicity/race in their immediate personal life with no problem - - - but be racist against who they think are more apt to commit a crime.

Those saying Zimmerman is not racist because he is mixed/race - - has relatives of mixed race - - mentored a black child - - etc in his personal life (people he personally knows) - - - does not necessary carry over to his "wannabe" cop mentality. He seems to be "criminally" racist in his profiling against young black men.

You know what i find ironic your discussing How racist a man you never met is.But accuse that same person of profiling what are you doing? Your making assumptions and dismissing facts to fit your beliefs. Guess what thats profiling since you have nothing else to base your opinions on.First are you aware according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, he never applied to take the Basic Abilities Test needed to enter recruit training. So was he really pursuing this or another job in criminal justice such as Youth Correctional Counselor.This would fit much more in line with what he was doing mentoring young adults. If he truly wanted to be a police officer dont you think he would have took step one unless he wasnt trying to be a patrol officer.From what i see is he had a sense of community instilled in him at an early age. His father was Ex military and trust me i lived that life and you learn to follow rules.

We can make assumptions all day long on what you believe but in the end your just profiling him on what you believe him to be. I prefer to wait for the facts.Notice how the stories are starting to change now that people are looking in to it. Even the family's story is starting to change. It went from how carrying and lovable trayvon was you would have thought he was a community organizer helping out youths.And suddenly now people are going it doesnt matter if he was suspended for drugs. Or he was caught in school with stolen goods and since this was leaked from the police report this tells me the police did an extensive background check on both of them.

I suggest before you play judge jury and in the case of the black panthers executioner (cant believe they put out a reward for him doesnt this scare anybody else?) What troubles me the most is people are letting emotions cloud there judgement and anger is going to lead to violence and people are going to die!

“Public Opinion... an attempt to organize the ignorance of the community, and to elevate it to the dignity of physical force.” Oscar Wilde

Originally posted by dragonridr
You know what i find ironic your discussing How racist a man you never met is.

Why don't you read it without bias.

I presented a possibility that would/could apply to ANYONE.

George Zimmerman could possibly fit the possibility I presented.

I did not say: This IS George Zimmerman.

Molehilll > Mountain.

Something I feel stupid about for not realizing until an article pointed it out (thanks MM)...We know that the police held Martin's body and never called his parents, it wasn't until Tracy Martin (Trayvon's father) called the police himself to report his son hadn't come home and after an officer came to their home with a picture of Trayvon's body, that his family learned he had been killed.

I had assumed that Trayvon Martin's body was in the morgue as a John Doe (even though they had his cell phone and his father had called). But that isn't so, Trayvon Martin's name appears on the police report filed the night he was killed. Why wasn't his family called?


Source

Originally posted by Kali74
I had assumed that Trayvon Martin's body was in the morgue as a John Doe (even though they had his cell phone and his father had called). But that isn't so, Trayvon Martin's name appears on the police report filed the night he was killed. Why wasn't his family called?

Thanks for that.

I was following this story on Talk Radio - - before it was on ATS.

Several callers from that area said this is not an isolated incident. That there have been several deaths using Stand Your Ground - - - that this police dept completely dismisses with no investigation beyond the word of the perpetrator.

Some serious investigation needs to be done.

reply to post by Kali74


A body is considered a john doe until positive id either through finger prints or witness. Also lets use some common sense the police would have no way of knowing his fathers fiancee lived in the neighborhood until he contacted them.This also allowed positive id of the body.After that they confirmed who he was the tags would be changed. As for how they figured out who he was they checked police data base im sure he all ready was under investigation for stolen property that was turned over to the police to investigate. The only problem is im sure they still thought his father was in Miami. If his father hadnt called them there next step would have been to contact the school which reported him for more information on the family.

reply to post by dragonridr


What I mean is the police knew exactly who he was but made no effort to contact his family, they even had his cell phone which rang several times from his father.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by dragonridr

 

What I mean is the police knew exactly who he was but made no effort to contact his family, they even had his cell phone which rang several times from his father.

All the police would know is he was from miami. Im sure the number blocked out is his fathers home number given to the school.Could have been a disconnected number or no one there to answer. Your assuming the police are idiots.Ive had alot of experience dealing with the police in different states.When i first got out the military i used to train officers on counter terrorism with a private company. So ive meet a lot of police officers and still friends with many of them.Trust me when i say there not stupid and basically you guys are trying to make it out like the police are incompetent. There is standard procedures for handling everything they would have just gone by the book.

It is very rare for the police to contact the family until they have enough information to explain what happened.You want something odd having seen this it makes no sense.Police didn't find a cell phone on him now isnt that odd if the girlfriend claims she was talking to him at the time? Wouldn't she keep calling the phone especially after what she claims she heard? heres another one why didn't she contact the family and let them know there son was in trouble? See how this works we can second guess all day long but in the end it means nothing.In the end you just have to piece together information as it becomes available. Some things are dismissed others relevant. But in the end your only guessing why the police made the decisions they did. Obviously the police sent the information to the DA it was there decision on deciding to prosecute. So when he she looked at it they didnt think there was sufficient grounds for prosecution. THE POLICE DO NOT DECIDE WHO TO ARREST IN A CRIMINAL CASE.

Originally posted by dragonridr
basically you guys are trying to make it out like the police are incompetent.

Not incompetent.

Intentionally complacent.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dragonridr
basically you guys are trying to make it out like the police are incompetent.

Not incompetent.

Intentionally complacent.

Have proof other then your expert opinion. Do you have a degree in criminal justice what basis do you have so we should consider your opinion even valid in judging policeman you never met. Do you know the officers that were on the scene.How about the captain they filed the report to.Do you know the DA who decided not to prosecute? Do you know why the DA decided not to prosecute? Your accusing them of being racist so i think you have some information you would like to share with us? People like you are the problem with society and cause people to be hurt. You want to scream and yell about profiling Trayvon Martin but your doing the same thing to the police officers you never met. When you let emotions rule your decisions your guaranteed to make bad decisions.

PS i am sorry if this sounds harsh but im hoping you realize what dangers occur when people start speculating as to why someone did something.Until we can read minds will never know and you know what its probably good we dont. So take a breath calm down we have enough people trying to stir up racial tensions.

Let me ask you this and answer honestly, Do you think if zimmermans last name was say hernandez this story would have gone national? You know Hispanics kill Blacks every day usually street gangs. Happens daily in cities like Los Angeles wheres the calls for justice. So ask yourself why this is different and be honest.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dragonridr
basically you guys are trying to make it out like the police are incompetent.

Not incompetent.

Intentionally complacent.

Have proof other then your expert opinion.

Do you have proof other then your non-expert opinion?

Lead Homicide Detective Wanted Zimmerman Charged With Manslaughter From the Beginning

By MATT GUTMAN - March 27, 2012

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. abcnews.go.com...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dragonridr
basically you guys are trying to make it out like the police are incompetent.

Not incompetent.

Intentionally complacent.

Have proof other then your expert opinion.

Do you have proof other then your non-expert opinion?

Lead Homicide Detective Wanted Zimmerman Charged With Manslaughter From the Beginning

By MATT GUTMAN - March 27, 2012

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. abcnews.go.com...

So you just disproved your own belief didnt you apparently the police wanted to prosecute him.But you have been arguing they purposefully ignored the facts and let zimmerman go which is it? As I stated several times its not the police departments decision its the DA who decides. And he decides based on the information if he can get a conviction. So i hope your willing to apologize to the police department now accusing them of racism like you did.