"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Let's look at the hard facts of the case. If you take away the media spin, this is not nearly so cut and dry and the media's take and Obama's agit-prop even take on a sinister aspect.
Deny ignorance. Question everything.

Ok. Hard facts.

1. Zimmerman was armed.
2. Martin was unarmed.
3. Martin was walking back to his fathers fiancee's house after buying Ice Tea and Skittles at the store.
4. Zimmerman saw a black kid and began to pursue him.
5. Zimmerman called 911. Made comments like "these as$holes always get away" and "fuc%ing coon".
6. Dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following Martin. When he said yes, Dispatch told him to stop.
7. Zimmerman continued anyway. Stand your ground no longer applies.
8. Zimmerman confronts Martin and they get into a scuffle.
9. Martin is dead.

Those are the "hard facts". So what exactly is the "sweet and innocent" that is being left out here? The kid deserved to die because he was a black kid in a white neighborhood? Or maybe he deserved to die because he didn't obey the Neighborhood Watchman right? Or... MAYBE he deserved to die because he (Martin) saw an armed man following him through the neighborhood.

Hard facts...

reply to post by SonoraUndergroundLabs


The fact that you believe all of those casinos are 100% Native owned already has me laughing. And people of all colors come and go in those casinos every day spending their money by their own choosing. Why shouldn't the Natives benefit from their own earnings? And people of other colors don't live on welfare? Your fear of other races is very evident here. I don't know how you leave your house every day.

reply to post by SonoraUndergroundLabs

Banana wow please. Why would you think im scared of them or anyone? The greedy indians here built their casino here so that anyone who is mi wuk gets 5 grand just for being indian. Then if your on the board you get 15 grand just for that. And free housing medical electricity etc.. oh and they get this money every 2 weeks also so they have lots of money they took from people. So they are not Your tribe. They are a gang and would shoot me without justification either.

Hey man, I am sorry you feel that you feel my people taking care of each other is wrong and selfish(after being invaded and killed by the "generous" whiteman) but you are wildly off topic. Not only that, you are insulting. Get a grip.

nightstalker78 and illuminatislave... could you take your argument somewhere else? I'm not trying to be mean or nasty but you two are going back and fourth and totally derailing this topic. Ignore eachother.

Same for SonoraUndergroundLabs and Thunder Heart Woman... please.. I ask in the nicest way possible. Just focus on this topic.

Originally posted by DerekJR321

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Let's look at the hard facts of the case. If you take away the media spin, this is not nearly so cut and dry and the media's take and Obama's agit-prop even take on a sinister aspect.
Deny ignorance. Question everything.

Ok. Hard facts.

1. Zimmerman was armed.
2. Martin was unarmed.
3. Martin was walking back to his fathers fiancee's house after buying Ice Tea and Skittles at the store.
4. Zimmerman saw a black kid and began to pursue him.
5. Zimmerman called 911. Made comments like "these as$holes always get away" and "fuc%ing coon".
6. Dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following Martin. When he said yes, Dispatch told him to stop.
7. Zimmerman continued anyway. Stand your ground no longer applies.
8. Zimmerman confronts Martin and they get into a scuffle.
9. Martin is dead.

Those are the "hard facts". So what exactly is the "sweet and innocent" that is being left out here? The kid deserved to die because he was a black kid in a white neighborhood? Or maybe he deserved to die because he didn't obey the Neighborhood Watchman right? Or... MAYBE he deserved to die because he (Martin) saw an armed man following him through the neighborhood.

Hard facts...

Originally posted by DerekJR321

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Let's look at the hard facts of the case. If you take away the media spin, this is not nearly so cut and dry and the media's take and Obama's agit-prop even take on a sinister aspect.
Deny ignorance. Question everything.

Ok. Hard facts.

1. Zimmerman was armed.
2. Martin was unarmed.
3. Martin was walking back to his fathers fiancee's house after buying Ice Tea and Skittles at the store.
4. Zimmerman saw a black kid and began to pursue him.
5. Zimmerman called 911. Made comments like "these as$holes always get away" and "fuc%ing coon".
6. Dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following Martin. When he said yes, Dispatch told him to stop.
7. Zimmerman continued anyway. Stand your ground no longer applies.
8. Zimmerman confronts Martin and they get into a scuffle.
9. Martin is dead.

Those are the "hard facts". So what exactly is the "sweet and innocent" that is being left out here? The kid deserved to die because he was a black kid in a white neighborhood? Or maybe he deserved to die because he didn't obey the Neighborhood Watchman right? Or... MAYBE he deserved to die because he (Martin) saw an armed man following him through the neighborhood.

Hard facts...

1.Zimmerman was legally armed.
2.Yeah he was.so?
3.Media making this kid out to be innocent.Never mind the fact he was in Sanford when he lives in miami.On a school night no less.
4.Didn't see a black kid.He saw a person who didn't belong where he was.
5.Get over it.if he wouldve said "#in cracker" or "#ing "spics"..would it be a big deal?No it wouldnt.
6.Should've stopped.But that has nothing to do with the case.
7.Yes it does apply.if you're attacked.Get the facts of the case before you claim the bs you are.
8 and 9.the kid attacked Zimmerman.

reply to post by Thunder heart woman


In California gambling is illegal but not on a reservation. So yes the only way to obtain a casino is to be native american. Do you not know your history book

reply to post by DerekJR321


I've been on topic this whole time. So go to your corner. This man is innocent until PROVEN guilty in a COURT of law not ATS. But I guess everyone here doesn't respect our country.

reply to post by BellaSabre


If you are being attacked on the streets, how in the world might you know what weapons they may or may not have on them. If you make a violent or threatening move against someone, you better be able to back it up or else you may be JUSTIFIABLY shot. Sounds to me like there is evidence that things are very different than the media makes it appear.
Funny how many on here are so hot on questioning the official story until the official story plays to their heartstrings.

Due to budgets and crime problems, many communities are debating using volunteer watch programs. nothing scares or agitates centralized authority and liberal groups more than people being self reliant and personally responsible. This is what you get as a result. Unadulterated propaganda.

Let's see the facts of the case before deciding what really happened. There is more than enough reason to question the official story but not enough to decide the opposite. And if, as investigations continue, it does show that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly, then let him go to jail.

reply to post by vor78

where one of the idiots in question was killed on the first punch

Yes, Treyvon's fists were widely known to be deadly weapons.

reply to post by BellaSabre


How do you know they weren't? He could have been the best underground fighter but you just go by pictures that remind me of the please help the poor comercials

reply to post by SonoraUndergroundLabs

In California gambling is illegal but not on a reservation. So yes the only way to obtain a casino is to be native american. Do you not know your history book

The only way to open a casino is to do so on a reservation, yes, to do that you need the tribes permission, which is likely to only happen if you are of that tribe. NOTHING says that non-native Americans cant open a casino. You just need the tribes permission.

Now, why are you bringing this up and acting like MY PEOPLE are some type of villains for opening a business and funneling SOME of the profits back into the tribe?

Originally posted by Chalupas



Zimmerman did not infringe upon anyone's personal liberties. Neighborhood watch commitees are set up and agreed upon by the nieghboorhood. It was Zimmerman's duty to question Martin as to why he was out so late on a rainy day. Zimmerman in no way tried to act like Batman; Zimmerman was simply doing his job. Zimmerman tried calling the polie.

Except for the fact that Zimmerman was NOT acting in accordance with Neighborhood watch policies. Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association stated in one interview that there are 25,000 registered neighborhood watch groups in the US, but Zimmerman's was not one of them. He also identifies two fundamental rules that all members of neighborhood watches are obligated to follow.

1. NO weapons are to be carried.
2. Do not engage or confront, instead you are supposed to observe and report.

So let's get this idea that Zimmerman was "doing his job" acting in his role as a neighborhood watch captain argument off the table.

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.

"There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.

[url]http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch[/ url]

Originally posted by happyhomemaker29 Zimmerman may have been the watch captain, but he was not the police. He had NO right to question Treyvon. His job was to observe and report. Not detain, not interrogate, and certain not apprehend. He went over the line.



I agree with you right up to that point. The thing is, it would only make him guilty of some lesser crime. The question I have is whether or not he was the one who escalated this from what amounted to a verbal confrontation to a physical altercation. The problem I have is that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head, according to the police reports. That strongly suggests that he was NOT the aggressor in terms of the physical altercation. If there is a trial, I think that will be the key question.

I could be wrong, but to me, Zimmerman was the original aggressor with his stalking. And, fine, let say he did ask Treyvon what he was doing there. But by then Treyvon had been running from Zimmerman, to the point where he felt flee was no longer an option so fight was. Yes, he probably got a few blows before Zimmerman killed him. But Zimmerman went after him first by stalking and chasing him. If I were on a jury, just knowing the facts that Zimmerman chased him after being told not to, that Zimmerman had a gun and Treyvon did not, that Treyvon landed the first physical blow, I think we'd be looking at manslaughter at best, murder in the 3rd.

Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"),

But as a lot of people stated we don't know all the facts yet. We do know, thanks to sources, that Zimmerman had a previous criminal past. Yes, it's possible Treyvon may have had one too. But they both didn't know that at that particular time, and unfortunately Treyvon is no longer here to defend himself.

Originally posted by DerekJR321

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Let's look at the hard facts of the case. If you take away the media spin, this is not nearly so cut and dry and the media's take and Obama's agit-prop even take on a sinister aspect.
Deny ignorance. Question everything.

Ok. Hard facts.

1. Zimmerman was armed.
2. Martin was unarmed.
3. Martin was walking back to his fathers fiancee's house after buying Ice Tea and Skittles at the store.
4. Zimmerman saw a black kid and began to pursue him.
5. Zimmerman called 911. Made comments like "these as$holes always get away" and "fuc%ing coon".
6. Dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following Martin. When he said yes, Dispatch told him to stop.
7. Zimmerman continued anyway. Stand your ground no longer applies.
8. Zimmerman confronts Martin and they get into a scuffle.
9. Martin is dead.

Those are the "hard facts". So what exactly is the "sweet and innocent" that is being left out here? The kid deserved to die because he was a black kid in a white neighborhood? Or maybe he deserved to die because he didn't obey the Neighborhood Watchman right? Or... MAYBE he deserved to die because he (Martin) saw an armed man following him through the neighborhood.

Hard facts...

Nice oversimplification. Your hard facts are very 1 sided and full of spin. Exactly how MSNBC is playing it. Do you work there?
I never heard anywhere in the media of evidence of Trayvon's drug dealing, his size, the fact that witnesses saw him on top of Zimmerman, or that Zimmerman was bleeding.
All I've seen on TV is candy with a sugarcoating. No facts whatsoever.

Most portrayals evoke a white man (rather than hispanic with black family members) who killed a poor unarmed black child who was the sweetest, most precious thing ever. Hitler killed Webster and now the federal government must take away everyone's guns to protect all the Websters in the world.

And the armed/unarmed thing is an argument for people who sit behind a computer in cozy suburbia. The world is a dangerous place. People will harm you. Unless you have some form of Superman's x-ray vision, you assume that the other guy is well armed. If you don't, you are dumb. Or severely injured. Or dead.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Therefore the indians OWN it because a reservation is not part of the united states. Secondly those greedy bastards give nothing beside drive around in 70 thousand dollar vehicles. And streetbikes. Yet stil nothing in return

Originally posted by BellaSabre

where one of the idiots in question was killed on the first punch

Yes, Treyvon's fists were widely known to be deadly weapons.

The potential is low, but it does exist and happens more often than you seem to think. Regardless, the point I'm making is that any assault is potentially deadly.

I don't think its unreasonable for a person being attacked to feel their life is in danger.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
1.Zimmerman was legally armed.
2.Yeah he was.so?
3.Media making this kid out to be innocent.Never mind the fact he was in Sanford when he lives in miami.On a school night no less.
4.Didn't see a black kid.He saw a person who didn't belong where he was.
5.Get over it.if he wouldve said "#in cracker" or "#ing "spics"..would it be a big deal?No it wouldnt.
6.Should've stopped.But that has nothing to do with the case.
7.Yes it does apply.if you're attacked.Get the facts of the case before you claim the bs you are.
8 and 9.the kid attacked Zimmerman.

edit on 24-3-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

1. What difference does legally armed mean? It just means he was licensed to carry a weapon. It doesn't give him the right to kill someone.
2. Yeah so? So Martin was unarmed. Zimmerman was. Fear for ones life kind of sways in the balance no?
3. He was vising his father at his fathers fiances house. He was suspended from school. But uhh.. oh I guess thats ok to kill him over. He was a trouble maker right?
4. He saw a black kid with a hoodie. He saw a "fuc$ing coon" as he pointed out on the 911 tape.
5. His comments very much play into the situation. You may not want it to be racist but everything has SOME racial overtones. And obviously because of the words Zimmerman used, race DOES come into play in this situation. Sorry if you don't like it but its a fact.
6. Dispatch telling him to stop has EVERYTHING to do with this case. Had he actually followed dispatches advice, Martin may still be alive. The police could have done THEIR job. But instead Zimmerman decided to agitate the situation even further by pursing Martin further. It also has everything to do with the "stand your ground" law. Because dispatch told him to stop following and he continued anyway, he can't use "Stand your ground" as a defense.
7. Go look up the law. You want to say I'm claiming BS? Go check the law and then get back to me. I was tempted for a second to link it here but im not going to bother. Clearly your pissed off because I asked you and someone else to stop your stupid ass argument derailing this topic.
8&9. Please link me proof that the kid attacked Zimmerman. I could link videos of witnesses who said that didn't happen but I don't need to. They are on this topic in the first few pages already. And before you even being to say "he had blood and grass stains" just stop while your ahead. Stop and think very clearly at why I won't accept that as an argument.

If you want to debate this with me fine. But if you start in with calling what I post as BS...

Havent people heard of citizens arrest? Thought so.