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Math Philosophy-- Why does 1/∞ not equal 0, and for that matter, what is ∞?

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posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Ok, sir, prove it. Show me where. What is the problem I ignore? How do I ignore it. You are ignoring it equally.




posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Infinity is defined as never ending numbers, unatainable ending



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Infinity is defined as never ending numbers, unatainable ending



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by UKLionheart
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I'm sorry; I didn't realise! Hahaha!

The lesson for me today is to read the middle pages of the threads!


It's been two days of trying to explain to him that you can't use infinity as a number.

I showed him the above example of how using it as a number creates paradoxes (which you pointed out is nonsense...and I agree...but it is how he is trying to use it.)

I asked him if he can tell me the answer to 1/finite since he wants to use concepts as numbers.

And I have even asked him to show the answer to 1/large....to try to show how silly using a concept as a number is.

He just ignores it all and says he's still as right as anyone else.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Ok, sir, prove it. Show me where. What is the problem I ignore? How do I ignore it. You are ignoring it equally.


Resolve this paradox

Starting with YOUR claim that 1/infinity = 0. That would mean 1 = infinity * 0.

But I'm sure you would also say 2/infinity = 0...which would mean 2 = infinity * 0.

Simple replacement gives you 1 = 2.



You say I'm ignoring this problem as well...but that is false because I start out saying 1/infinity is not defined. So I don't have this problem.
edit on 19-3-2012 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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I agree with OS that 1/infinity is undefined.

But putting that aside for a moment

wouldn't 2/infinity = 0.0r5



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by UKLionheart
 


But no, it is not different. The error for both equations are equal... If one of them can have that error than surely both can


I don't quite understand what you mean here? If there is an error in both equations, it doesn't mean they cancel and make both correct. Two wrongs and all that! It's like saying a bowl of apples = a bowl of oranges because neither are pears!



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by PhysicsAdept
 


If you never heared of this guy you should check out his bio and contribution to math..

Georg Cantor



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

I addressed this so early in the thread it isn't even funny.
1.


Right, and actually both equations I believe are considered indeterminate, where basically you cannot really know what each of those will equal until the correct situation presents itself... So if 1/ ∞ does equal zero, then in that same case 0*∞would equal 1...


Slightly addressed it here:
2.

Spoke again of it here with sly1
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Yep. And that is where math can no longer do the talking. It is too situational. Text


This relates:
4.


Well zero both is a number and is not as far as I see it. Like infinity, it is a concept IMHO. I say that because there is no such thing as nothing... except for in concept. There will always be something, even if it is small. The only way you could ever get to nothing is by, so I don't know, dividing by infinity??


Also replied here with again, pretty much only speculation as it is all that can exist here:
5.


Has to do with rates is my guess. You cannot just multiply each side by infinity to resolve that 1=2.


Might be good to remind you of this:
6.


It is not a number at all. People think that I use it as one, which is false, but It is not a number. It is a concept, yet within this concept is the ability to treat it as something similar to a number--with slightly different properties.


I'll stop there, as I doubt even you have forgotten recent posts

Sorry bout the links, I tried to get them to the post themselves and it did not work... at least the pages are correct
edit on 19-3-2012 by PhysicsAdept because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by OccamAssassin
 


Well if infinity is truly the concept of the largest of numbers, wouldn't it produce the smallest of numbers as an answer? That would be either .0r1 or 0. (0!
and no, not 0 factorial...)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


and now your turn , to answer the question directly. The one you have avoided all 10+ pages. If infinity existed and we reached it, and you divided 1 by it, what would you get?

Just in your opinion, best educated guess. Just answer it, not hard.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OccamAssassin
 


Well if infinity is truly the concept of the largest of numbers, wouldn't it produce the smallest of numbers as an answer? That would be either .0r1 or 0. (0!
and no, not 0 factorial...)


Yeah I was thinking that....

1/infinity = 0.0r1

2/infinity = 0.00r5 or = 0.0r05

It starts one decimal point across but due to being calculated with infinity, the decimal point being moved is absorbed into/by the large scale of the operation



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by OccamAssassin
 


Well anyway it would not equal half of 1/∞ anyway, it would be twice of that--assuming that is how you would approach the situation



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OccamAssassin
 


Well anyway it would not equal half of 1/∞ anyway, it would be twice of that--assuming that is how you would approach the situation


Your right.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


and now your turn , to answer the question directly. The one you have avoided all 10+ pages. If infinity existed and we reached it, and you divided 1 by it, what would you get?

Just in your opinion, best educated guess. Just answer it, not hard.


I hope OS doesn't mind me jumping in on this, but his has answered your own question...

If you are at any point where you can add one, then, by definition, that point is not infinity. There can never be an infinity+1 (except in song lyics like "forever and a day") But in terms of maths Infinity and negative infinity are the "ends" of the number line. Of course, as you can always "add another one", there is no end, hence the use of infinity as a concept, rather than a value. Does that help you see it better?
edit on 19/3/12 by UKLionheart because: could not spell infiniy ! :-s



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by OccamAssassin
 


Apparently not


Your opinion: if .9r=1, with a theoretical "error" of .0r1, would not your 1/∞=.0r1 equal 0 anyway? That is about all the math I have left in me. None of the other numbers or concepts seem to be doing any good--though there is really no legitimate proof against me...

I get it, ∞ is not a number and I never said it was. But if we can use them in limits I see no reason why we cannot use it, at least in theory, at other places.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by PhysicsAdept
 


You haven't addressed it at all...you have danced around it and made excuses as to why basic algebra shouldn't apply.

But let's look at this here:


Right, and actually both equations I believe are considered indeterminate, where basically you cannot really know what each of those will equal until the correct situation presents itself... So if 1/ ∞ does equal zero, then in that same case 0*∞would equal 1.


Answer a simple question.

What does 2/infinity equal in your mind?



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by UKLionheart
 


No, I get that just fine. Maybe you and OS don't get it, we are assuming we HAVE reached that point. You cannot add anymore, you reached the end of it. Some theoretical force of whatever is preventing you from ever adding anything else. Then what? You divide 1 by it and get 0, or not? Take this question by theory, not by what some guy with a text book told you to think. There is nothing you can do to disprove what I am saying, so in theory just answer it as it is intended to be answered--not by the spin your brain wishes to prod it into.

Not trying to be rude here I just want 1 or 2 people to just answer the question how it is asked.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Ok now I am dancing. You answer first. Then you look like the bigger man and if I "still don't answer" then guess what, you win anyway. You have nothing to lose.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


and now your turn , to answer the question directly. The one you have avoided all 10+ pages. If infinity existed and we reached it, and you divided 1 by it, what would you get?

Just in your opinion, best educated guess. Just answer it, not hard.


I can't answer a nonsensical question.

Saying "if infinity existed and we reached it"...I have to stop you right there...because if you reached it...then it isn't infinity. You are contradicting yourself right there.

It's like asking somone who doesn't like apples...well if that apple was an orange...would you like it and then we can say you like apples???

You simply aren't making sense.




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