Alien Disclosure Think Tank.

Originally posted by electric
I believe the best way to tackle this problem is not by discussion, but by compiling sets of data, which can later be scrutinized. This data should meet very strict criteria.

Here's my proposal (which is open to argument of course). If it's not used, well, maybe someone else researching this phenomena will find it useful.

electric, we will be compiling lists of data, maybe not on every sighting or encounter but on those that are worthy.

Ycon

no response from staff yet

This is a very interesting topic you started Ycon, if at any point it is felt that this subject is research ready just let me know. I will offer full support in it being considered.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
This is a very interesting topic you started Ycon, if at any point it is felt that this subject is research ready just let me know. I will offer full support in it being considered.

Thanks Advisor, I was going to contact you first about it, but because it is more of a collection of data and discussion then a research project, I went higher up

I am currently trying to setup a special forum and titles for this group.


Ycon

Originally posted by Ycon I am currently trying to setup a special forum and titles for this group.

I don't think we need a "special" forum for what, essentially, the Aliens & UFOs forum is for in the first place. [edit on 22-9-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

I don't "thing" or think we need an extra forum either. It should be a sub forum in Aliens & UFOs if anything.

Oh well, I guess we can forget about organizing any data

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I don't think we need a "special" forum for what, essentially, the Aliens & UFOs forum is for in the first place.

Maybe this thread has highlighted a problem. You can post individual UFO/abduction cases in this forum but it becomes quickly fragmented amongst the other topics.

It would be interesting to see something like terroranalysis.com for any new UFO sighting reports or abduction cases, and somehow also including information about previous sightings and abduction cases in a blog type format.

Originally posted by electric

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I don't think we need a "special" forum for what, essentially, the Aliens & UFOs forum is for in the first place.

Maybe this thread has highlighted a problem. You can post individual UFO/abduction cases in this forum but it becomes quickly fragmented amongst the other topics.

It would be interesting to see something like terroranalysis.com for any new UFO sighting reports or abduction cases, and somehow also including information about previous sightings and abduction cases in a blog type format.

The idea of a think tank for alien discloser is the gathering of all data into a organized forum where it can be discussed. Very simular to a research project but with a lot of discussion. The reason I asked for a "special" forum was because the rules in the research forum state that too much conversation may get the project shut down. There is a big difference between what this alien and UFO forum is and what I was trying to bring together. And again in my original post I stated this thread was to see if there was enough interest in a group like this, I was not recruiting, even though people were ready to join.

electric, maybe this idea was missunderstood by skeptic

Ycon

I think you�re going about this the wrong way entirely. You don�t need a weblog to categorically maintain a list of UFO encounters. There are numerous website and organizations in a plethora of countries that are already set up, and have been keeping records of the UFO phenomenon for years. This section of ATS, Aliens & UFOs, is doing one of THE BEST things that can be done. It is getting the juice of communication running. It�s given that everything is not constructive but people are talking.

You were just talking about Hynek type 4 and 5 encounters. Why not discuss the prospect of convincing the aliens to drop you off on the white house lawn. I�ve never met an alien, so I wouldn�t know how to hitch a ride. Wasn�t there some type of organization to try to achieve contact at a sporting event by telepathy a few years ago? Oh yea, that worked.

I don�t mean to be sarcastic, but I�m not convinced that aliens are present to tell you the truth. I�ve seen something, yea, but they didn�t exactly stop and explain themselves. It could have been anything, it�s anybody�s guess. If the military has this type of stuff, they sure as heck are not going to claim it.

Originally posted by Seth76
You don�t need a weblog to categorically maintain a list of UFO encounters. There are numerous website and organizations in a plethora of countries that are already set up, and have been keeping records of the UFO phenomenon for years.

None of them are maintaining information in the way I have suggested. Most are categorized as name, date, encounter description, which in my opinion does not allow for easy cross referencing of information. Say I wanted to find all abduction cases where the witnesses have had more than 6 hours of missing time, I'd have a hell of a time trying to do it.

Originally posted by Seth76
You were just talking about Hynek type 4 and 5 encounters. Why not discuss the prospect of convincing the aliens to drop you off on the white house lawn. I�ve never met an alien, so I wouldn�t know how to hitch a ride. Wasn�t there some type of organization to try to achieve contact at a sporting event by telepathy a few years ago? Oh yea, that worked.

You're only feeding the flame of my argument. I'm for credible evidence and witnesses that can prove the reality of extraterrestrial craft visiting this planet. Maybe there isn't any that will meet strict criteria. Nobody will never know unless that information is available to be easily cross-referenced and discussed.

Originally posted by Seth76
I don�t mean to be sarcastic, but I�m not convinced that aliens are present to tell you the truth. I�ve seen something, yea, but they didn�t exactly stop and explain themselves. It could have been anything, it�s anybody�s guess. If the military has this type of stuff, they sure as heck are not going to claim it.

And this is why the discussions of this topic often go nowhere. People state their opinions and give little substance as to what they have based their opinions on. The legal system could not work if judgements of defendants were based purely on opinions and speculation, I don't see the topic of UFOs and Extraterrestrials as being any different. If the United States government, at one time or another, investigated this phenomena, then I would think there must have been some credibility to it. I've never gone as far as to assume the United States government, or any government for that matter, is directly involved with EBEs.

As the good old saying goes, it only takes 1 encounter or sighting to be true and the case is solved. At which point we know this planet is being visited by vehicles that were not constructed here. And we then know the mechanism for long distance space travel may be there.

Looky looky: web.archive.org...://abovetopsecret.com/

Originally posted by taibunsuu logic dictates does not exist?

pretty arrogant to think that what happened on our planet couldn't happen elsewhere.

sorry wrong thread
[edit on 23-9-2004 by boosted]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by boosted]

OKay, I'm confused. I thought this was going to be about disclosure and not about collecting ufo data and crunching info. Now I don't have a problem with either topic (sub-topic?) But now it seems that tihs is more about the existence/non-existence of unidentified objects, which is a bit different than disclosure to me. ?????

Ycon i am not sure if its aloud or not but if so why dont you do this discloser think tank as a long running thread instead of a forum.

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
OKay, I'm confused. I thought this was going to be about disclosure and not about collecting ufo data and crunching info. Now I don't have a problem with either topic (sub-topic?) But now it seems that tihs is more about the existence/non-existence of unidentified objects, which is a bit different than disclosure to me. ?????

I kinda agree. I think its about time all of us on ATS move away from "the existence of unidentified flying objects" to something more in depth, such as the proving the existence of aliens by means of disclosure or some other method.

We all know there are some form of UFO's in our earth's atmosphere whether they are man made or not. The question now is to prove who is flying them, what is in them, and what this whole conspiracy is all about. I think pretty much everyone on this forum will agree that UFO's exist whether their man made or non-man made. What else can account for all those strange lights in the sky and videos that have been proven credible by the experts who analyze videos for a living.

Notice the name of this site: Abovetopsecret.com. Flying saucers have become below top secret in my opinion. I think if its one thing that the disbelievers and believers have in common is that we know there are objects out there in our skys that are not explainable. And for that reason, we should band together and engage in a deeper discussion on this issue to find out what they are and why they are. I am sure you people that dont believe in aliens arent on these UFO forums to put others down. You are here becuase you have some form of interest in the subject of UFO's. So why not finally take this one step further push for disclosure to see whats inside, and who flys one of those things.

Dont get me wrong, I know that we do discuss these things on the UFO/aliens forum but were only being hypothetical about most of the topics we post. I see very few stuff on research findings or good points being made. So this idea of a sub-forum would be good if we kept it for factual info and compilation of witness info. like someone else mentioned.

As for gathering witness testimony of abductions, sightings, etc., thats cool to keep around, but the main goal should not be forgottin and thats disclosure and confirmation of the existence of extraterrestrials.

[edit on 29-9-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

[edit on 29-9-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

I did something like this on another forum once, a science/skeptic forum. I presented the strongest cases, analysed them and invited serious investigation. What I got instead was fanaticism, personal attacks and the refusal to investigate because of predispostions on what constitutes reality.

The evidence for UFO's is already categorized at many sites, accumulated by books, documentaries, research papers, testimonials and historical references. Anyone can access them, and if they still cling to the notions that it is all make-believe, then no matter what you say here, it won't make an iota of change. I liken reasoning with skeptics, to reasoning with terrorists. They both uphold the sanctity of their beliefs, and both are impervious to common sense and rationality.

The motto of this site, is deny ingorance. I just saw a very ignorant person here call aliens, UFO's, fairytales and propounding they are illusions of our consciousness or self-manifestations. Instead of denying his ignorance, he's put on a pedestal, welcomed as a "thinktank" and applauded for his posts.

If you want to make headway in discussing the nature of UFO/ET, you need to filter out trolls, bigots, close minds. Thinktanks are groups of intellectual and open-minded people, who consider all possibilities, so if this term is going to be used, justify it.



[edit on 29-9-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
OKay, I'm confused. I thought this was going to be about disclosure and not about collecting ufo data and crunching info. Now I don't have a problem with either topic (sub-topic?) But now it seems that tihs is more about the existence/non-existence of unidentified objects, which is a bit different than disclosure to me. ?????

How else is it going to be done? To present a credible case for the existence of extra-terrestrials which are visiting this planet, I was thinking a fact checked set of cases. Lots of them.

If some of you are thinking disclosure as in Steven Greer, I guess an attempt could be made to contact some of those people.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Thinktanks are groups of intellectual and open-minded people, who consider all possibilities, so if this term is going to be used, justify it.

Yes, and an open-minded person is open to skepticism. Unfortunatley this means, for example, that you can't, as suggested in the first post of this topic, establish the shadow government's involvement with Extra-terrestrials without first establishing the existence of the shadow government.

Most of the information about government involvement with extra-terrestrial beings begins with the crash of a UFO at Roswell. In which case, how can you get by without also presenting a case for UFOs?

So that I'm not misread on this, I have nothing to prove to myself. I have seen disc and cigar shaped craft before. But trust me when I say good solid evidence is hard to come by. The best cases I've read about are lesser known cases where the people involved in the encounter have not gone for large amounts of publicity. You don't find this sort of information categorized and discussed on websites.

[edit on 29-9-2004 by electric]

Originally posted by electric
Yes, and an open-minded person is open to skepticism. Unfortunatley this means, for example, that you can't, as suggested in the first post of this topic, establish the shadow government's involvement with Extra-terrestrials without first establishing the existence of the shadow government.

Most of the information about government involvement with extra-terrestrial beings begins with the crash of a UFO at Roswell. In which case, how can you get by without also presenting a case for UFOs?

Well if we wanted to we can put aside the shadow government, and ask the question do UFO's EXIST???(An irrelevant question becuase theres too much hard evidence proving they do exist). The purpose of this is to get us started somewhere. Once everyone agrees, we can ask whos running this show...is it the government(shadow or non shadow)? Then we can assess through the list of evidence(witness testimony, roswell, disclosure project, etc) on why we think the government is involved and has knowledge of such things, looking at the suggested evidence thrown on the table.

But your right hard evidence is hard to come by, but do you really think the government would let you get away with hard evidence so easily? The best way to get evidence is to work for the government in question. But when your term is done and you quit, you wont be walking out that office with much evidence. So instead we should then try to disprove the current evidence thrown on the table. For example, can we disprove that the roswell incident did or did not happen? Can we disprove alien bodies? Even if theres no evidence in our favor, we still cant disprove that alien bodies were not there. Can we disprove the people from the disclosure project? I would definitely like to see this one. So I think my main point is...if the excuse is "I cant get hard evidence becuase the government has me in check," then why not attempt to disprove the credentials of witnesses and other forms of evidence, thus shutting them down even more. For example, I would like to see some hardcore ufo researcher try to debunk some of greer's people. That would suggest alot, but no one has ever done that. But for Lazar, there have been people checking up on his background. So why not check up on some of greer's people. The problem is that we dont do this...instead we just say they have insufficient proof.

[edit on 29-9-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

I was looking at it from the stand point that it is accepted by this think tank that UFOs are real. (not necessarily alien craft.) And to discuss ways of getting the gov't to fess up at some level as to what is going on. And not the usual 'We don't know, don't care" response.