Well, Sweat, here is your chance to once again talk to a soldier was spent his youth in Europe as a soldier in the Eighties. Allow me to clarify a
couple things for you.
Had the Soviets rolled into Western Europe, they would have done so using special weapons from the beginning. Their training was not as lousy as
described and they shot more than a few rounds. As a matter of fact, they used more live ammo in training exercises than we did, and they used live
chemical agents in the field, whereas we certainly did not do that. They lost many soldiers in training incidents, but the soldiers knew they could
maneuver on a battlefield that was contaminated with special weapons.
Their general plan was to encircle large areas of land, figuring that we would not use our own special weapons (primarily nuclear) because of this,
but I think they would have been wrong. We had plenty of tactical weapons, for example, the 8” round, and ADA missiles that would not only strike
incoming bombers but could also be used surface/surface or surface/subsurface.
The use of these tactical weapons would not have ended the world, as they aren’t the same as strategic sized weapons. Anyway, our goal was to slow
their advance down long enough so that our reinforcements could arrive. That annual training was called Reforger, remember that term? It was an
annual logistic nightmare, but was necessary for the survival of Europe.
But, as you say, it is fortunate that we never went to blows. It would have screwed up many primo German breweries, and we can't have that!
State of the Russian Military, page 7
privacy
. 
reply posted on 28-10-2004 @ 04:12 PM by TheRussianPoljak
www.weeklystandard.com...
acn.waw.pl...
www.specwarnet.com...
Here's proof
, don't ask any more and also i will type something on Cichociemni, like I did for Russian spetsnaz:
Cichociemni (Polish for Silent and dark) were a secret unit of the Polish Army in exile created to maintain contact with occupied Poland during World War II.
Initially the name was informal and used only by the soldiers who volunteered to be dropped over Poland. However, since September 1941 it became official and was used in all official documents ever since. It is used both for the secret training detachment of the Polish Headquarters created to provide the agents with necessary knowledge, money and equipment, as well as for all the agents that were transported to Poland and other German-occupied countries.
On December 30, 1939 capt. Jan Górski, a Polish Army officer who managed to escape to France after the Polish Defense War of 1939, prepared a report for the Polish Chief of Staff in which he proposed the creation of a secret unit maintaining contact with the ZWZ by a group of well-trained envoys. The report was initially ignored, so Górski repeated it several times. Finally commander of the Polish air forces, general Zaj¹c, replied that although creation of such a unit would be a good move, the Polish Airforce had no means of transport and no training facilities for such an unit to be created.
However, Górski together with his colleague Maciej Kalenkiewicz continued to study the possibilities of paratroopers and special forces. After the capitulation of France they managed to get to the United Kingdom. They studied the documents on German paratroopers and prepared a plan of recreation of Polish Airforce in exile as a military unit specialized in covert operations support. According to their plan the airforce was to be prepared solely for the purpose of aiding the future uprising in occupied Poland. Their plan was never accepted, but on September 20, 1940, the Polish C-i-C general W³adys³aw Sikorski ordered the creation of the 3rd Detachment of the Polish General Staff (Oddzia³ III Sztabu Naczelnego Wodza). The purpose of the newly-established unit was theoretical preparation of covert operations in Poland, arms and supplies' delivery by air and - last but not least - training of the paratroopers.
Training
The 3rd Detachment started to accept volunteers soon afterwards. Those who were chosen left their units silently and at night - hence the name, Cichociemni. Among 2413 candidates, only 605 managed to finish the training and passed all the exams. 579 of them qualified for the airlift.
Among the volunteers were:
1 general
112 staff officers
894 officers
592 NCOs
771 privates
15 women
28 civilian envoys of the Polish government in exile
The training prepared by the Polish 6th Detachment of the General Staff (Oddzia³ VI Sztabu Naczelnego Wodza) and the British Special Operations Executive consisted of five parts:
preparation and physical training (kurs zaprawowy)
psychological and technical research (kurs badañ psychotechnicznych)
parachute training (kurs spadochronowy)
conspiration, covert operations and partisan warfare (kurs walki konspiracyjnej)
final course (kurs odprawowy)
During the first phase of the training all the volunteers were taught to use all weapons (including British, Polish, German, Russian and Italian) and mines. Additional courses were organized on which the soldiers were trained in basic covert operations, topography, cryptography, and sharpshooting. They were also taught all the details of life in occupied Poland, from the laws imposed by the Germans to the fashion popular in Warsaw under occupation. The fourth course included all sorts of covert operations, jiu-jitsu, and shooting at invisible targets,
The final course included learning of a new, false identity. All the soldiers who passed the training were sworn in as members of the Armia Krajowa
The first air bridge was organized on February 16, 1941. The Allied air commands carried out 483 air bridges altogether, losing 68 planes to air crashes and enemy fire. Apart from the Cichociemni themselves, approximately 630 tonns of war materiel were delivered in special containers. In addition, the agents delivered the following amounts of money to the Armia Krajowa:
40 869 800 forged Polish zloty
26 299 375 dollars in banknotes and golden coins
1 755 pounds in golden coins
3 578 000 German marks
Until December 27, 1944 an overall total of 316 soldiers and 28 envoys were succesfuly paradropped over Poland. Additional 17 agents were dropped over Albania, France, Greece, Italy and Yugoslavia. An unknown number of Poles were also dropped over France by the SOE to start an underground movement among the half-a-million strong Polish minority (among them the best known was Krystyna Skarbek).
Although the unit was organized in collaboration with SOE, it was largely independent. The Polish section of the SOE was the only one which chose its own men freely and operated its own radio communication with an occupied country. Also, the identities of the Polish agents were known to the Polish General Staff only.
Among those transported to Poland were soldiers of all grades. The oldest of them was 54 years old, the youngest was 20. As a rule, all volunteers were promoted one rank upwards at the moment of their jump.
The fight
In Poland the Cichociemni were transferred mostly to various special units of the ZWZ and AK. Most of them joined Wachlarz, Zwi¹zek Odwetu and KeDyw. Many became important staff officers of the Polish Secret Army and took part in the Operation Tempest and the Uprisings in Wilno, Lwów and Warsaw.
The cichociemni took over various duties in occupied country:
37 started working for the intelligence
50 were radio operators and envoys
24 were staff officers
22 were airmen and airdrop coordinators
11 were instructors of armoured forces and professors of anti-tank warfare in secret military schools
3 were trained in forging documents
169 were trained in covert operations, diversion and partisan warfare
28 were envoys of the Polish government
Among the most notable Cichociemni were:
Rank Name and nick-name Dropped Note
colonel Kazimierz Iranek-Osmecki - Antoni March 14, 1943 commander of the 2nd Detachment of the Armia Krajowa General Staff (intelligence and counterintelligence), discovered the German V-1 and V-2 testing facility at Peenemünde. Fought in the Warsaw Uprising.
general Leopold Okulicki - NiedŸwiadek March 14, 1943 deputy Chief of Staff of the Armia Krajowa, commander of the Nie organization, arrested by the NKVD, probably tortured to death in Lubyanka prison in Moscow on December 24, 1946
captain Tadeusz Klimowski - Klon January 7, 1942 Chief of Staff of the 27th Polish Home Army Division
captain Adam Borys - P³ug October 2, 1942 organizer of the Agat group fighting against the Gestapo
ensign Adolf Pilch - Góra, Dolina February 17, 1943 organizer of a 1000 people strong cavalry partisan unit in the Nowogródek area, broke through to the Kampinos forest near Warsaw and liberated it with his men; between June 3, 1943 and January 17, 1945 they fought in 235 battles.
lt. col. Maciej Kalenkiewicz - Kotwicz December 28, 1941 organizer of the Cichociemni and the main planner of the Operation Ostra Brama, KIA in the Battle of Surkonty with the NKVD forces on August 21, 1944.
lt. Józef Czuma - Skryty February 18, 1943 organizer of a partisan unit of his name in the area of Warsaw, arrested by Gestapo on July 12, 1944, probably tortured to death in Pawiak prison.
colonel Józef Spychalski - Grudzieñ, Luty March 31, 1942 commander of the Kraków AK Area, arrested by Gestapo on March 24, 1944.
colonel Roman Rudkowski January 26, 1943 commander of the 3rd Detachment of the Home Army General Staff (air forces and aerial deliveries).
major Boles³aw Kontrym September 2, 1942 organizer of the secret police force, took part in the Warsaw Uprising. After the war arrested by S³u¿ba Bezpieczeñstwa and executed in January 1953.
Out of 344 men transported to Poland 112 were KIA:
84 in fights against the Germans or tortured to death by the Gestapo after being arrested
10 commited suicide in German prisons and concentration camps
10 murdered by the NKVD during and after the war
9 were shot down with their planes before reaching their targets
Out of 91 cichociemni who took part in the Warsaw Uprising 18 were killed in action.
On August 4, 1995, the Polish special forces unit GROM adopted the name and traditions of the Cichociemni.
GROM-
GROM, a Polish word meaning "Thunder", is a special operations group in the Polish military. August 4, 1995 is the creation date. Special forces in Poland started in; 1939.
[edit on 28-10-2004 by TheRussianPoljak]
acn.waw.pl...
www.specwarnet.com...
Here's proof
, don't ask any more and also i will type something on Cichociemni, like I did for Russian spetsnaz: Cichociemni (Polish for Silent and dark) were a secret unit of the Polish Army in exile created to maintain contact with occupied Poland during World War II.
Initially the name was informal and used only by the soldiers who volunteered to be dropped over Poland. However, since September 1941 it became official and was used in all official documents ever since. It is used both for the secret training detachment of the Polish Headquarters created to provide the agents with necessary knowledge, money and equipment, as well as for all the agents that were transported to Poland and other German-occupied countries.
On December 30, 1939 capt. Jan Górski, a Polish Army officer who managed to escape to France after the Polish Defense War of 1939, prepared a report for the Polish Chief of Staff in which he proposed the creation of a secret unit maintaining contact with the ZWZ by a group of well-trained envoys. The report was initially ignored, so Górski repeated it several times. Finally commander of the Polish air forces, general Zaj¹c, replied that although creation of such a unit would be a good move, the Polish Airforce had no means of transport and no training facilities for such an unit to be created.
However, Górski together with his colleague Maciej Kalenkiewicz continued to study the possibilities of paratroopers and special forces. After the capitulation of France they managed to get to the United Kingdom. They studied the documents on German paratroopers and prepared a plan of recreation of Polish Airforce in exile as a military unit specialized in covert operations support. According to their plan the airforce was to be prepared solely for the purpose of aiding the future uprising in occupied Poland. Their plan was never accepted, but on September 20, 1940, the Polish C-i-C general W³adys³aw Sikorski ordered the creation of the 3rd Detachment of the Polish General Staff (Oddzia³ III Sztabu Naczelnego Wodza). The purpose of the newly-established unit was theoretical preparation of covert operations in Poland, arms and supplies' delivery by air and - last but not least - training of the paratroopers.
Training
The 3rd Detachment started to accept volunteers soon afterwards. Those who were chosen left their units silently and at night - hence the name, Cichociemni. Among 2413 candidates, only 605 managed to finish the training and passed all the exams. 579 of them qualified for the airlift.
Among the volunteers were:
1 general
112 staff officers
894 officers
592 NCOs
771 privates
15 women
28 civilian envoys of the Polish government in exile
The training prepared by the Polish 6th Detachment of the General Staff (Oddzia³ VI Sztabu Naczelnego Wodza) and the British Special Operations Executive consisted of five parts:
preparation and physical training (kurs zaprawowy)
psychological and technical research (kurs badañ psychotechnicznych)
parachute training (kurs spadochronowy)
conspiration, covert operations and partisan warfare (kurs walki konspiracyjnej)
final course (kurs odprawowy)
During the first phase of the training all the volunteers were taught to use all weapons (including British, Polish, German, Russian and Italian) and mines. Additional courses were organized on which the soldiers were trained in basic covert operations, topography, cryptography, and sharpshooting. They were also taught all the details of life in occupied Poland, from the laws imposed by the Germans to the fashion popular in Warsaw under occupation. The fourth course included all sorts of covert operations, jiu-jitsu, and shooting at invisible targets,
The final course included learning of a new, false identity. All the soldiers who passed the training were sworn in as members of the Armia Krajowa
The first air bridge was organized on February 16, 1941. The Allied air commands carried out 483 air bridges altogether, losing 68 planes to air crashes and enemy fire. Apart from the Cichociemni themselves, approximately 630 tonns of war materiel were delivered in special containers. In addition, the agents delivered the following amounts of money to the Armia Krajowa:
40 869 800 forged Polish zloty
26 299 375 dollars in banknotes and golden coins
1 755 pounds in golden coins
3 578 000 German marks
Until December 27, 1944 an overall total of 316 soldiers and 28 envoys were succesfuly paradropped over Poland. Additional 17 agents were dropped over Albania, France, Greece, Italy and Yugoslavia. An unknown number of Poles were also dropped over France by the SOE to start an underground movement among the half-a-million strong Polish minority (among them the best known was Krystyna Skarbek).
Although the unit was organized in collaboration with SOE, it was largely independent. The Polish section of the SOE was the only one which chose its own men freely and operated its own radio communication with an occupied country. Also, the identities of the Polish agents were known to the Polish General Staff only.
Among those transported to Poland were soldiers of all grades. The oldest of them was 54 years old, the youngest was 20. As a rule, all volunteers were promoted one rank upwards at the moment of their jump.
The fight
In Poland the Cichociemni were transferred mostly to various special units of the ZWZ and AK. Most of them joined Wachlarz, Zwi¹zek Odwetu and KeDyw. Many became important staff officers of the Polish Secret Army and took part in the Operation Tempest and the Uprisings in Wilno, Lwów and Warsaw.
The cichociemni took over various duties in occupied country:
37 started working for the intelligence
50 were radio operators and envoys
24 were staff officers
22 were airmen and airdrop coordinators
11 were instructors of armoured forces and professors of anti-tank warfare in secret military schools
3 were trained in forging documents
169 were trained in covert operations, diversion and partisan warfare
28 were envoys of the Polish government
Among the most notable Cichociemni were:
Rank Name and nick-name Dropped Note
colonel Kazimierz Iranek-Osmecki - Antoni March 14, 1943 commander of the 2nd Detachment of the Armia Krajowa General Staff (intelligence and counterintelligence), discovered the German V-1 and V-2 testing facility at Peenemünde. Fought in the Warsaw Uprising.
general Leopold Okulicki - NiedŸwiadek March 14, 1943 deputy Chief of Staff of the Armia Krajowa, commander of the Nie organization, arrested by the NKVD, probably tortured to death in Lubyanka prison in Moscow on December 24, 1946
captain Tadeusz Klimowski - Klon January 7, 1942 Chief of Staff of the 27th Polish Home Army Division
captain Adam Borys - P³ug October 2, 1942 organizer of the Agat group fighting against the Gestapo
ensign Adolf Pilch - Góra, Dolina February 17, 1943 organizer of a 1000 people strong cavalry partisan unit in the Nowogródek area, broke through to the Kampinos forest near Warsaw and liberated it with his men; between June 3, 1943 and January 17, 1945 they fought in 235 battles.
lt. col. Maciej Kalenkiewicz - Kotwicz December 28, 1941 organizer of the Cichociemni and the main planner of the Operation Ostra Brama, KIA in the Battle of Surkonty with the NKVD forces on August 21, 1944.
lt. Józef Czuma - Skryty February 18, 1943 organizer of a partisan unit of his name in the area of Warsaw, arrested by Gestapo on July 12, 1944, probably tortured to death in Pawiak prison.
colonel Józef Spychalski - Grudzieñ, Luty March 31, 1942 commander of the Kraków AK Area, arrested by Gestapo on March 24, 1944.
colonel Roman Rudkowski January 26, 1943 commander of the 3rd Detachment of the Home Army General Staff (air forces and aerial deliveries).
major Boles³aw Kontrym September 2, 1942 organizer of the secret police force, took part in the Warsaw Uprising. After the war arrested by S³u¿ba Bezpieczeñstwa and executed in January 1953.
Out of 344 men transported to Poland 112 were KIA:
84 in fights against the Germans or tortured to death by the Gestapo after being arrested
10 commited suicide in German prisons and concentration camps
10 murdered by the NKVD during and after the war
9 were shot down with their planes before reaching their targets
Out of 91 cichociemni who took part in the Warsaw Uprising 18 were killed in action.
On August 4, 1995, the Polish special forces unit GROM adopted the name and traditions of the Cichociemni.
GROM-
GROM, a Polish word meaning "Thunder", is a special operations group in the Polish military. August 4, 1995 is the creation date. Special forces in Poland started in; 1939.
[edit on 28-10-2004 by TheRussianPoljak]
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