Teen charged over Facebook post on UK soldiers killed in Afghanistan#

Originally posted by Petest205
Just to repeat what I said earlier;

He will have been arrested purely for his biometrics. Obviously the police have pointed him out as a potential future threat. Why?
Because he's 19 and he doesn't mind telling his 600+ friends what he thinks about UK troops, whilst he lives in the UK!

Because he has been radicalized with propaganda therefore he is a threat, i suspect all of these people preaching hate under the cover of the freedom of speech on social networks are being watched, much like some of you on here who support and sympathize with such ideas or help push the anti west propaganda to feed these people, the next step for them to take is taking action and carrying out attacks on the civilian population from within, most wont amount to much more than vocal support, but a small number will, thus the reason they are being watched/monitored, because they are "potential" homegrown terrorists, we have seen this trend happen many times over in the past

So no there is nothing wrong with speaking your mind, and certainly nothing wrong with preaching hate and showing you have been radicalized like this 19yo kid has, because it puts them on the radar so to speak, it would be far harder to protect the people should they stay silent & under the radar, but when it gets to the point you are in sighting racial tensions and violence then you will be arrested, for what ever reason they can find you guilty of, and that is because it course even more problem down the line

In this case with Mr Azhar Ahmed, it is quite a different reason for the authorities taking action, the police have charge him with racially aggravated public order offense, this serves as...

(A) a warning for the radicals to tone the rhetoric down

and...

(B) it serves as a message to the British public that they are cracking down on these more & more frequent public outbursts from the a small number of radicalized Muslim's in our communities

And the very reason for that is.... is to stop the ever growing popularity of organizations such as the EDL, the (English Defense League) the very reason for the organizations growth has been largely due to these insulting outburst toward the British people, the troops, and pushing sharia law in the UK, the more the people see these hate speeches on our streets in public and rejecting integration into the communities, they see no action being taken by the government/police, so the more the people jump on the EDL bandwagon, which inevitably if left to continue in this fashion will likely end up in more & more violent clashes, as has already occurred on our streets a number of times, the problem is hate breeds more hate, and freedom of speech is being used and abused to insight violence.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Posting an opinion is now an arrestable offense?

Does the UK have a Bill of Rights or Constitution?

Guess we shouldnt expect much from a nation which has a history deeply rooted in imperialism, conquest, gun confiscations and more surveillance cameras than any other nation on Earth.

Are you sure your not talking about the United States here?
Cameras on every corner, a Government that's in 130 other countries killing people over oil, diamonds, drugs and god knows what else.

The United States; where a soldier can be arrested for treason because he provided evidence of war crimes by military leaders going all the way up to the White House?

The united States; where nothing happens to war criminals that run the country?

The United States; where they torture prisoners of an illegal war in secret prison camps where US citizens are forbidden by federal law to visit, including politicians and public officials?

The United States; where publicly documented voter fraud allows an influential oil tycoon, who was personal friends of the Bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal Family, to hold the Presidency illegally for two terms?

The United States; where... none really wants to know the truth.

Isn't it usually the "Patriotic American" Muslim bashers always spouting about freedom of speech? Well, sorry to say, this is his right to freedom of speech in the works.

You should be more angry about him being charged because of a Facebook comment than by the comment itself.

This is all a pathetic excuse to whine about Muslims in my opinion.

reply to post by Mclaneinc



Totally agree,

Making an example of this one lad is ridiculous, there have been far bigger and worst thing let slip by our government from these hate preaching radicals, the system has been more that compliant & fair to them and the problem is escalating, there is no reasoning with the radicals they want one thing only, and that's for a Islamic UK

www.youtube.com...


Personally i think its time we payed for the ones who refuse to integrate into our communities that do not abide by our laws and preach hatred & division on our streets to get on a plane and go home, it will be far less cheaper than the problem that its going to course further down the line, there is no other option unfortunately,

Originally posted by ideasarebulletproof
Isn't it usually the "Patriotic American" Muslim bashers always spouting about freedom of speech? Well, sorry to say, this is his right to freedom of speech in the works.

You should be more angry about him being charged because of a Facebook comment than by the comment itself.

This is all a pathetic excuse to whine about Muslims in my opinion.

edit on 3/15/12 by ideasarebulletproof because: (no reason given)

Its funny to me that you took my comment as being angry, or even having any animosity of any kind.
I was simply replying to his comment "Does the UK have a Bill of Rights or Constitution?" to mean that even if they did have a bill of rights or constitution it really doesn't mean anything anymore.

And how do you come to the conclusion that I'm racist from my comment?
Wait a tic.. I don't care what you think and you cant draw me into your hate speech.

reply to post by TKDRL


The Truth hurts and the Brits felt the sting of the truth and they wanted to take it out and teach this young lad a lesson. This will have more people doing the same and backlashing.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by TKDRL

 

The Truth hurts and the Brits felt the ting of the truth and they wanted to take it out and teach this young lad a lesson. This will have more people doing the same and backlashing.

What do you mean the truth hurts? lol

Its the public calling for this man to have action taken against him, and a large majority of the public to, not the government, the police/government has never taken action against these hate preaching rants before in the past, and instead escort them on hate demos safely though our streets, the more the government refused to act and allow it, the bigger organizations like EDL got, and the more violent backlashes from the public occurred on our streets,

I don't think you understand the situation here at all, and neither do 90% of the people posting in the thread, the only reason the government is "only now" throwing these silly charges on radicals Islamic's for there outburst is to stop the escalation of violence and support for both sides,

If you think that is a bad thing then you're all for the escalation of violence on our streets, lets be honest here, i think you all know this anyway, and no amount of explaining the situation at hand here will help, in which case carry on hating,

reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight


This facebook message, is not the major public outcry as you make it to be. I hadn't heard about it until I read the thread and it has not been reported on any News that I have seen. So lets not blow this case out of perspective.

All I will say on this issue, is that I have seen much worse on ATS, and if you would like the police to be knocking on the doors of it's members, there would be an outcry by all and rightly so.

The point of freedom of speech, is that sometimes people say things you dont want to hear. I can't stand the EDL, but I defend their rights to protest and free speech. I don't like it , but once you start banning protests or freedom of speach you cant be in a position to complain when your own rights are removed to protest over a cause you believe in strongly.

reply to post by ideasarebulletproof


Sadly, a lot of people think speech should only be free for people that agree with them. The exact opposite of free speech....

reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight


Don't forget the BNP, they actually managed to get people elected in areas like Bradford! Their numbers are growing and this will be a real recruitment coup no doubt.
You are absolutely correct and the clueless Yank above you clearly just wants to see race riots on the streets.

The boy was arrested to try and diffuse a potentially volatile situation, now idiots on the other side have gone a lot further, they can expect jail sentences whereas the original protagonist will simply get a warning. However the other muslim boys now piping in trying to fan the flames can expect jail sentences as well.

It is completely stupid to try and fan the flames and this is not what the MAJORITY in either community wants to see.

For all of you who think you are smart making such comments, consider whether you will still stand by them once associated with your real identity. I have unmasked several ATS members in the past 24 hours due to their own complacency. You want to hide behind a mask? Join anonymous.

Originally posted by Maponos
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight

 

Don't forget the BNP, they actually managed to get people elected in areas like Bradford! Their numbers are growing and this will be a real recruitment coup no doubt.
You are absolutely correct and the clueless Yank above you clearly just wants to see race riots on the streets.

The boy was arrested to try and diffuse a potentially volatile situation, now idiots on the other side have gone a lot further, they can expect jail sentences whereas the original protagonist will simply get a warning. However the other muslim boys now piping in trying to fan the flames can expect jail sentences as well.

It is completely stupid to try and fan the flames and this is not what the MAJORITY in either community wants to see.

For all of you who think you are smart making such comments, consider whether you will still stand by them once associated with your real identity. I have unmasked several ATS members in the past 24 hours due to their own complacency. You want to hide behind a mask? Join anonymous.

This need quoting so people can read it all again, exactly that my friend, nail on head

We are the ones who will have to pay for all this mess once the rhetoric on both sides gets harsher and harsher to the point violence breaks out on our streets, like it already has done with the EDL, both side need to cool it and if that requires warning from the police to stem the insult ON BOTH SIDES then so be it, its not a one sided thing the public are sick to death with the EDL & the MDL

People just come in here look at the guys FB message and are outraged at him being arrested, without even bothering to understand whats been going on for the past few years, mainly because alot of it goes unreported on the MSM but we the people who live in these communities no exactly whats going on, they don't live in the UK nore understand what is going on, we all agree with freedom of speech, but its being abused and used to insight trouble on our streets, something needed to be done, end off

I believe in free speech, I am an American though, so that is just me. There are certain restraints on the free speech, like not yelling fire in theatre for a reason. Posting that you hope soldiers die and go to hell doesn't fall under that restriction in my book.

I guess people in the UK have a different book than me, but from reading the facebook page against him, a lot of the ones crying foul are hypocrites or worse.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight

 

This facebook message, is not the major public outcry as you make it to be. I hadn't heard about it until I read the thread and it has not been reported on any News that I have seen. So lets not blow this case out of perspective.

All I will say on this issue, is that I have seen much worse on ATS, and if you would like the police to be knocking on the doors of it's members, there would be an outcry by all and rightly so.

The point of freedom of speech, is that sometimes people say things you dont want to hear. I can't stand the EDL, but I defend their rights to protest and free speech. I don't like it , but once you start banning protests or freedom of speach you cant be in a position to complain when your own rights are removed to protest over a cause you believe in strongly.

Ok fair enough but you obviously don't live in one of these communities being effected, and the media are not reporting these problems, even i am struggling to find information in my OWN CITY about these things, there have been Islamic marches in my own city that i didn't even know about till months later where citizens was racially abused and insulted for the way they dressed in western clothes, if it was the BNP or the EDL it would have been on the front page and news headline across the country, and the very reason they exist or came about is because of things like this, its just adding fuel to the fire

And this is being used to gain more and more support for the EDL & the BNP, do you not see that something needs to be done here? its just escalating, and we are the ones who will have to pay for this mess, £700.000 it costs to police these demos and far higher in some cases and its coming out of our back pockets, i can't speak for you but my city and a ever growing number what i would describe as a large percentage are sick to the stomach of it all,

So should we just allow these idiots to continue insulting each other and hope it calms down, well we did that it just got worst as expected,

The problem is not what this one man said on FB, its much much more than that, this is just an attempt to dampen the flames, to stop future violence,

Originally posted by Maponos
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight

 

Don't forget the BNP, they actually managed to get people elected in areas like Bradford! Their numbers are growing and this will be a real recruitment coup no doubt.
You are absolutely correct and the clueless Yank above you clearly just wants to see race riots on the streets.

The boy was arrested to try and diffuse a potentially volatile situation, now idiots on the other side have gone a lot further, they can expect jail sentences whereas the original protagonist will simply get a warning. However the other muslim boys now piping in trying to fan the flames can expect jail sentences as well.

It is completely stupid to try and fan the flames and this is not what the MAJORITY in either community wants to see.

For all of you who think you are smart making such comments, consider whether you will still stand by them once associated with your real identity. I have unmasked several ATS members in the past 24 hours due to their own complacency. You want to hide behind a mask? Join anonymous.

Bolding is mine for emphasis. Is that some kind of veiled threat to post personal information of people who disagree with you? Sounds fishy to me.....

reply to post by SashaHighkick


No more a piece of advice, they might think they are hidden posting under an alias but after a couple of google searches their name and address is often discovered. I warned someone early on in the thread, he was UK as well so open to being charged over this,

If I can do it imagine what the police can do. Posting inflammatory remarks online is retarded.

I hate to tell you, "Free Speech" simply means just that, you are free to say whatever you want. Nothing more and nothing less. It does not say that you are free to say whatever you want, and disavow responsibility for saying it.

If your "speech" offends someone, you can still be prosecuted for it in a civil court (libel, defamation, slander).

If your "speech" contravenes a law, you can still be prosecuted in a criminal court for saying it.

All it means is that you can say it, but you still have to accept responsibility for saying it.

In any case, as this involves the UK, crying "free speech" amounts to little, as the UK has no right nor expectation of free speech on the statute books. What we do have is known as a "Negative Right to the Freedom Of Expression".

What that means is that we can express ourselves in any manner we wish (the freedom of expression part), providing that we do not contravene any laws in the doing so. Should any laws be contravened, then we lose that right of expression (the negative right bit), and can be prosecuted for it.

In this case, it is illegal to incite violence in the UK, it is illegal to discriminate racially, and it is illegal to incite racial hatred. The facebook post breaks all 3 of those rules, and therefore the poster lost the right to say anything under UK law, and can be prosecuted for the post (and indeed is being prosecuted).

Do I personally agree with this case? No I do not, but it is within the laws of the UK.
Do I personally agree with the laws? I'm torn. I don't believe people should incite violence against another people, for any reason.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by TKDRL

 

The Truth hurts and the Brits felt the sting of the truth and they wanted to take it out and teach this young lad a lesson. This will have more people doing the same and backlashing.

And this is why you can not wage war on ideas, this is a never ending fight. Its too bad also, so much racism and blind hatred among "civilised peoples".

Its funny all these Americans preaching that their first amendment right allows them to say what they like online no matter how vile, and yet....
"Whether Facebook posts are constitutionally protected speech remains a legal gray area."

Maybe we could call 999 and see if our extradition treaty really does work both ways....? lolololol

I guess you better be careful if you plan to incite racial hatred in another country via the web. Or get better at hiding yourself at least, there is a reason anonymous exist after all

reply to post by Maponos


The only "racial hatred" I saw was aimed at Azhar Ahmed, and some of it by members of your own army.
I imagine the US government would tell the british government to shove it, if they asked to extradite on such a weak and retarded charge

reply to post by SashaHighkick


Suppose we may find out someday soon, copyright charges are pretty retarded but hey that gets you sent abroad now

Its a very different world since the inception of the WWW