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CONTACT: the effect of Columbus' voyage on the old world

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posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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This comes from a discussion that started in another thread. We are starting this thread to let that lacklustre thread a merciful death. The point of discussion is:

What was the effect on the old world of Chris Columbus' journey. Lets limit it to the first 17 years, so from 1493 to 1510. The first impact of the word that there was a new world/islands or more realistically at the time, that man had gotten to the Indies by sailing to the west.




posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Could you please elaborate in greater detail. Im not sure I understand your question.



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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Its actually pretty simple. Europeans descended on the new world like a plague of disease infested rats and pretty much destroyed every ancient civilization they encountered. Between the search for treasure and the Catholic Church, they decimated a population of roughly 10 million people.

Makes you proud to be a European descendant doesn't it?(that is if you are of european descent)
edit on 12-3-2012 by redbarron626 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Hey Hanslune.
Cut me a break of a few years,
Would 1535 be OK
The accounts of Cavasa de Baca as presented to King Louis the 14, I think.
Anyway if you read it you will know early Spanish history is a farse.
I can't provide a link but google his report to the King.
Actually it is worth a thread of it's own. It is primarly about the very first continental spaish exploritory force,
the best ljb



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by redbarron626
 


That's nice, but the question is the effect on the old world of the discovery of the new world



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by redbarron626
 


I feel not one ounce of guilt for the decisions my forefathers made. It's history and no amount of feeling bad about it will make a lick of difference.

But I can and do remember the lessons learned. And strive not to repeat them.

I have often wondered how both peoples viewed one another during this timeframe. But unfortunately, it is a one sided exercise as the natives practiced verbal history and the Europeans wrote their thoughts down. The explorers at the time didn't think much of the Natives.
edit on 13-3-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Great but lets stay on the topic which is the effect of the discovery of the new world on the old world.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I actually think the effect was more profound on the Old World in terms of missed riches / opportunities. Look at the subsequent centuries of the rest of the Old World scrabbling for their own possessions and raiding those the Spanish had already gained. Not just in terms of spices / sugar, etc but more in terms of raw resources (gold, silver, etc).

The Privateer status awarded to what we know as pirates is testament to this. "No robbery on the high seas - that is piracy. Unless it is Spanish shipping from the New World - that is ok and will probably get you a knighthood!"

Further to this, look at the efforts that the English and Dutch went to to get their hands on Spanish sailing charts. This was not only to gain the knowledge of the safe passages around the Horn but also to gain the locations of the Spanish gold and silver mines.

In terms of immediate cultural impact, again i would suggest this was not as profound as we may like to think these days. Look at the disdain that the Muslim countries were treated with - and they were "on the doorstep" to the Old World powers. If it wasn't Christian it was simply barbarism and not worthy of humanity.

The wealth created for Spain drew greedy eyes from around the Old World. The best example of this wealth is in the city of Santiago de Compestelo in Galicia. A tiny town was built on the riches of the church in the New World. The other Old World powers wanted that money to fund further wars and to create their own empires.

I wish i could offer a decent opinion for you Hanslune but like so many other aspects of our history i am simply convinced that much came down in the end to greed.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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I offer a PDF worth the read if you are interested in this subject

The impact of the new on the old

It is a review of a book on the subject at hand

For those into video


Charles Mann, author of 1491, about the Americas before the arrival of Christopher Columbus, revisits the Americas afterward. The author reports on the European voyages that followed and the transportation of flora and fauna that reached portions of the globe they had never reached before, deemed the "Columbian Exchange." Mr. Mann recounted the economic and ecological impact of the exchange.


A discuss by a man who studies this subject
edit on 13/3/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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The effects on the old world... That's an interesting slant...

I'm not sure the effects were immediately noticeable for the work a day schlub toiling away for some baron, or other... Which my ancestors most certainly were for the most part.

But it must have really opened some eyes in the lower echelon of the "landed" class. Opportunities like a land basically empty don't come around too often after all.

The world had suddenly become much, much bigger... Though I don't recall much in the way of settlements in that first seventeen years or so, other than some Spanish settlements in Mexico and points south...

It wasn't until the late sixteenth century that settlement, and exploitation of the America's truly began...

But the opening of a vast new continent, essentially unknown to the common man must have been shocking. Much like a second Earth would be to us today...

Danger. The possibility of untold wealth. Getting away from the oligarchies/landed nobility that ruled Europe... How could one not be attracted if you were one of the have nots?

The effects were more internal, at least at first, than external. MHO, of course.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

This comes from a discussion that started in another thread. We are starting this thread to let that lacklustre thread a merciful death. The point of discussion is:

What was the effect on the old world of Chris Columbus' journey. Lets limit it to the first 17 years, so from 1493 to 1510. The first impact of the word that there was a new world/islands or more realistically at the time, that man had gotten to the Indies by sailing to the west.


How about it set the stage for most all of Europe to take it's turn in colonializing every place it could.
Attempts in Egypt, by France/ Spain,
South Africa, by Dutch/Englih/Germany
Congo by Belgium
India and China, by England
Poland /E. Germany, Norway/ Sweden/ Hungry/ The Baltics and a slew of Kastans etc. etc by The USSR
Please fill in the blanks


edit on 13-3-2012 by longjohnbritches because: forgot Germany in S.A.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I read Before the Arrival. Very exellent.
I should read it again.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by redbarron626
 


Yes, actually, everything aside I am VERY proud of my race and the people from whom I descend. You act as if the Native Americans were a special group of people. Maybe a bunch of eco-loving hippy tree-huggers like in the movie "Avatar"?
"Disease infested rats"? How racist can a person be... That is, unless you're another guilt plagued self-hating European who has been brainwashed by cultural Marxism to hate your own people.

It's the classic tale of two people, tribes, civilizations, nations, etc., that meet one another. One will emerge victorious and the other will fall. How many other civilizations have been built and destroyed throughout history? How many BEFORE written history?



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by longjohnbritches

How about it set the stage for most all of Europe to take it's turn in colonializing every place it could.
Attempts in Egypt, by France/ Spain,
South Africa, by Dutch/Englih/Germany
Congo by Belgium


Spain in Egypt? I think not, perhaps you mean Morocco? Or did you mean England?


India and China, by England


Yes everybody got into trade for awhile especially spices, later textiles. Danes, Swedes, Dutch, Portuguese, French just about everybody but the Swiss had colonies in India and some of the same in Asia and China

It took awhile, almost a century for the exploratory culture to spread in Europe - that and the slow development of naval technology to allow long voyages, food storage, water preservation, etc and the navigational skills to go and get back


edit on 13/3/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by longjohnbritches

How about it set the stage for most all of Europe to take it's turn in colonializing every place it could.
Attempts in Egypt, by France/ Spain,
South Africa, by Dutch/Englih/Germany
Congo by Belgium


Spain in Egypt? I think not, perhaps you mean Morocco? Or did you mean England?


India and China, by England


Yes everybody got into trade for awhile especially spices, later textiles. Danes, Swedes, Dutch, Portuguese, French just about everybody but the Swiss had colonies in India and some of the same in Asia and China

It took awhile, almost a century for the exploratory culture to spread in Europe - that and the slow development of naval technology to allow long voyages, food storage, water preservation, etc and the navigational skills to go and get back


edit on 13/3/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)


I was refering to the attempt by Napoleon Bonaparte.
I may be in error with the Spanish being with him. I'll have to check.
Nelson wacked his navy in the habor at Alexandria.
Very important, don't forget the sailors friend booze.
It is what got Henery around the horn.

Oh yeah sure Hong Kong- England and India too. Of course you know that
edit on 13-3-2012 by longjohnbritches because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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There was an effect on both the new and the old world. Though the new world got the disease and pretty much devastated the people present, however, what the effect on the old world was much more profound. The first was that it stated inflation on the part of Spain and other of the European continents, along with some of the diseases that were in the New World was transported back to the Old world. Several wars between the European powers were fought and the rise of Piracy, or as it would have been termed by the originating country, Privateering. The economies of the Old world went through recession and inflation, where many of the people there suffered on an economic scale.

There were other things that affected the Old World, such as a move more towards a more standardize system, along with new ideas and advances in some sciences. Then there was the one thing that really shook the old world, and that was the concept of where a colony could break away from its mother country and actually achieve independence. But that was later on. Oh yeah, by the way, the old world found out that the world was really round.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


I had to check before I wrote it.

"Tho I've belted you and flayed you,
By the livin Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am
Gunga Din"
R. Kipling
edit on 13-3-2012 by longjohnbritches because: left out credit



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
There was an effect on both the new and the old world. Though the new world got the disease and pretty much devastated the people present, however, what the effect on the old world was much more profound. The first was that it stated inflation on the part of Spain and other of the European continents, along with some of the diseases that were in the New World was transported back to the Old world. Several wars between the European powers were fought and the rise of Piracy, or as it would have been termed by the originating country, Privateering. The economies of the Old world went through recession and inflation, where many of the people there suffered on an economic scale.

There were other things that affected the Old World, such as a move more towards a more standardize system, along with new ideas and advances in some sciences. Then there was the one thing that really shook the old world, and that was the concept of where a colony could break away from its mother country and actually achieve independence. But that was later on. Oh yeah, by the way, the old world found out that the world was really round.


Trying to figure your handle,
South Dakota cigarpig?
hello just the same
Pretty interesting. Alot of that termoil was Inquision related.Do you think there is a conection withe the DISCOVERY?
I really like your last sentence.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 

The office of the Inquisition was around long before the discovery of the new world. It stated out as part of the Papacy to try to root out more of the native religions in the Old world, and to root out what they would have been convinced as heresy and satanic worship. It was a court convened by the church to determine the guild or innocence of one person or persons of a town. Spain, before discovery of the new world, was only about half to a quarter of its present day size, the rest controlled by the Moors, who were Muslim. After fighting and conquering the rest of the Iberian peninsula, turned their attention inward. More and more laws were being written to either force out the Jewish and the Muslims, to the point it was either convert or leave. Many of those who were Jewish, who had held land and property for years on end, came up with a loop hole, where they would have say a son, convert and then hold onto those properties. Slowly the Papal Inquisition was in Spain, taken over by the Monarchy and redesigned to be more of an investigative branch, with the full powers and authority of not only the Papacy, but that of the Monarchy, to check out the orthodoxy of those who had converted. The regulation of faith continued to tighten. As the Inquisition grew stronger, so too did their wealth, influence and power. They ended up being in short a branch of the Monarchy to keep absolute control over the population. After all, as it is stated, when the Inquisition came to town, a good part of the population would be removed. Neighbor who wanted say what the other had would denounce or make accusations against their neighbor. It was horrible. This was all going on long before the New World was discovered and continued long after.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Ah so,
Then the discovery could have influenced the Inquision but surely did not start it.
Thanks for the info.



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