Homeschooling families can’t teach homosexual acts sinful in class says Alberta gvmt

I approve of this. Its time to overhaul the human rights codes in the Churches. But then that would also apply to the Sharia ones, and that would also apply to their rules of women and children as well. They have schools here too and curriculum.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by schadenfreude

 

LOL, seems like Canada is becoming more like USA. Seriously how the hell are you going to stop me from teaching my kid whatever the hell I want...YOU CANT! I'll teach them there are pink elephants for all I care. People need to grow a backbone and start standing up for themselves and quit letting suicidal retards run their lives (TPTB).

edit on 28-2-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

Children have the right to be taught truth, and to become who they are meant to become, and not be indoctrinated by you or the government. We can share, but should also express what others believe, and also , no one should share any form of prejudice.

reply to post by Astyanax

Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them. If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school, or some religious-fundamentalist nonsense about 'evil influences', I'll admit I'm wrong.

There is multiple reasons home schooling is a wonderful option; and there are also lot of reason why it can be bad for a child. I was home schooled for the majority of my life, I went to school from K to 2nd grade and attended high school for my junior year. So I think I have a unique perspective.

The problem with public school systems is that there is great educational bias. This bias can manifest itself in a variety of ways, i.e. a certain school has great math teachers but horrible history teachers. I remember in high school sitting in a history class as the teacher (who was a gym teacher) went on and on about the only reason the US civil war occurred was because of slavery, I studied the civil war pretty intensely when I was a home schooled sophomore and knew he was wrong with this blanket statement. But in the classroom there is no debate, only "learning". So all the kids in the class went on not being presented the full story, this IMHO is a form of intellectual revisionism.

Another example, a friend of mine was in a government class that was being taught by this man who all day just went on and on about how Republicans are the cause for all the problems in the country and how Democrats especially FDR are the Messiahs of the US. How can you teach children stuff like that without presenting it an environment where all the information is available? Not just the information in ONE textbook.

My mother was a far better teacher than most teachers I ever had, especially when it came to science subjects. The only thing I got out of high school that was better than home school, was more social interaction and an awesome Latin teacher.

Very poetically stated. However, the government of a country (which includes its courts, and its sovereign if it has one) most certainly does have dominion over its citizens. The State has the right to make and enforce laws that its citizens must obey, and to raise taxes they must pay. In exchange, it protects those citizens against foreign invasion, maintains law and order and provides essential public services.

I agree with you on some of your points but not on others.

First of all if you do not live in the US, than you have no idea what the education system is like here, how broken and useless it has become. Most "modern" countries in the world have excellent free education systems because they put a lot of emphasis on education (i.e. pay teachers good wages and higher competent teacher, both of which are good things) and they have much smaller populations.

Education is both the duty and the preserve of the State. It may choose, under certain circumstances, to deputize parents to play a role in the education of their children. The terms and conditions under which parents and other private individuals may participate in education are at the discretion of the State, and it has the right to enforce those conditions. Whether it is practical or not to do so in certain situations (such as this one) is moot.

This is where we disagree, government has NO right to tell me or anyone else what I cannot do if I am not physically harming or defrauding anyone. It is not the role of government to be moral and intellectual police. It is to serve and protect.

Do I think they should supply a functional free educational system...yes I do. But I also do not think it is right nor necessary to demand children be put into an educational system the state deem suitable under the threat of taking a parents children away from them or a monetary fine. That goes against the very foundation of liberty.

reply to post by Openeye


I think its a dangerous thing, in the USA it is only illegal to have sex with animals in 34 states. Montana and North Carolina actually had the law prohibiting it repealed as it was unconstitutional! Now when 16 states cant actual decide it is illegal to **** a pigeon or something then there is a bit of a problem.

No offense to Americans but I think I would much rather your gun carrying, "horse riding" kids were taught in a school tbh I mean you cant even agree on "creationist vs evolution" what #e are home schoolers actually going to teach their kids? Very dangerous if you ask me. I appreciatate your education system is broken but that is because so much money is stolen from your society by big business, Israel, your crazy sue sue sue culture and so on, the people you elect and so on.

Fix society, don't become isolationists. Cure ignorance, dont breed it.

reply to post by Astyanax


We teach our kids how we were taught because it worked for us. It's really that simple and everyone here is trying to make it sound more sinister then it is. Just because you, I or anyone else thinks that being gay is normal and that those who don't believe so "are idiots", well they think the exact same way towards us.

A parent should be allowed to teach their child the morals they've been taught. It's part of that families individual culture. As long as it doesn't teach hate, I don't see a problem with it.

Church and state should be separate, all over the world. But unfortunately that's not the case.

How is teaching sin hateful? I don't get it. We teach what we know in our hearts to be true. To lie is a sin ,to drink till it hurts our relationships with God and our loved ones is a sin. Sexual imorality ,lust and so on is a sin. Where do we teach to hate our fellow man in there? We need to love those who are falling away from the narrow path.. Hating them will not change thier ways . No Christian would ever hate on purpose. I don't see it. Unless they do not believe the words of Christ. Then they are no more a Christian in church than I am a car standing in my garage.
Thanks, Mike.

Who cares?

I don't.

reply to post by Auricom


I agree with you for the most part.

However I think your philosophical leanings and mine will always be at odds.

I am all for progress and achieving a better commune amongst my fellow brothers and sisters of humanity. But liberty should not be overshadowed by advancement. At that point it is not progress.

I think its a dangerous thing, in the USA it is only illegal to have sex with animals in 34 states. Montana and North Carolina actually had the law prohibiting it repealed as it was unconstitutional! Now when 16 states cant actual decide it is illegal to **** a pigeon or something then there is a bit of a problem.

I know ridiculous isn't it, most laws in this country seem to be debated due to their constitutionality not their morality or reason. But really...how many people do you think actually **** pigeons or goats on a daily bases? Not many, just the small group of sickos like there are in any farming community in the world. It does not matter if it is illegal or not someones going to do it.

No offense to Americans but I think I would much rather your gun carrying, "horse riding" kids were taught in a school tbh I mean you cant even agree on "creationist vs evolution" what #e are home schoolers actually going to teach their kids?

Well there is no scientific debate in America about evolution. The only debate comes from the side of politically minded fundamentalists that (again) are in every country including your own...there are just more of them here and I assure you its not homeschooling that created them. Actually the number of right leaning religious home schooled families only out number the left wing secular families by a small majority.

And I learned a lot being home schooled, a lot more in fact than I think I learned in my one year in high school. Simply because I could learn what I wanted to learn. I doubt they taught Japanese history in my American high school, or any (valid) ancient history for that matter. Or what about religious histories which I find fascinating and very important to the world, they would never be taught in schools because the state is way way to politically correct.

As for the gun carrying comment I assume this is some how a jab at right to bear laws. I'm going to make a quick rant thread about this in a hot minute so keep a look out for it. In fact I will probably just link it to this post when I'm done. Here it is

I appreciatate your education system is broken but that is because so much money is stolen from your society by big business, Israel, your crazy sue sue sue culture and so on, the people you elect and so on.

Yeah big business has a lot to do with it. Damn lobbyists and union reps both are making life a living hell for individuals. As for Israel we should stop giving them money and let them take care of themselves like any other sovereign nation...so I agree with you. The sue sue culture I agree with you on, our justice system is extremely flawed and would function better if used properly.

But our population has a lot to do with our education system, I guarantee you that we have far far far more children going to public schools than in your country (unless you live in China or India). Granted this is not an excuse to not have free education (I think we should) but a huge obstacle that must be traversed responsibly.

The people we elect are part the problem, they have consistently misrepresented themselves and flopped on their promises. How do we change that? I think people have been asking themselves that question for a long time, there is no real answer.

Fix society,

Unfortunately I don't think society can be fixed anytime soon, and I think it is up to the whole world to fox it not just Americans. Though we are trend setters so we should start first

don't become isolationists.

We shouldn't we should be protectionists like everyone else

I believe government is a "tool" which can be used to better society. I do not look at it as the absolute authority of morals and order which people have made it to be in today's world.

Cure ignorance, dont breed it.

I agree but America is not by any stretch of the imagination the only country breeding ignorance...I mean Europe is becoming a police state they just have friendly police.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


The problem is ppl don't know HOW to live. "Back in the day" ppl could get along without govt help cause they were self-sustained. Now?

49-53% of the ppl in the US are on some kind of assistance. And they know it.

What, you thought the safety net was for YOU?

bwahaha

reply to post by Maslo


I can't comment on the Canadian school system b/c frankly I don't what the hell i'd be talking about. But if this was in the states, yes most assuredly I would teach whatever the heck I want, look how far down the list the US is.

If they spent more time with the three "R"'s and less time with the social programming, maybe our kids wouldn't be so stupid.

Read a recent thread once here that said our kids were dumb as a box of rocks,(or something similar) the results were humiliating. So yeah, anyone who wants to buck the system has my vote.

reply to post by Flavian


Not trying to make this thread into a "bible study" (and it was already in my request notes btw, thx for that) but where homosexuality is mentioned it is called an abomination, so yes it IS a sin.

and yes I know it also mentions stoning, blah blah blah, but I don't let biblical errors slide in my thread, sorry.

reply to post by Flavian


I agree, there are no deviations or "levels" when it comes to sin. I know alot of chrsitians will give me static for this, but ultimately by having "special-tiered" sins and calling ppl on it, you just make yourself out to sound like a douche.

/not a liberal
/last time i mention the sex angle of the story.

reply to post by Cuervo


So you're telling me that IF the parents home-school, the govt gives the parents a check?

how big a check?

~packs up bags and suddenly has an interest in hockey and words that sound like 'eh~

Originally posted by Unity_99

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by schadenfreude

 

LOL, seems like Canada is becoming more like USA. Seriously how the hell are you going to stop me from teaching my kid whatever the hell I want...YOU CANT! I'll teach them there are pink elephants for all I care. People need to grow a backbone and start standing up for themselves and quit letting suicidal retards run their lives (TPTB).

edit on 28-2-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

Children have the right to be taught truth, and to become who they are meant to become, and not be indoctrinated by you or the government. We can share, but should also express what others believe, and also , no one should share any form of prejudice.

Taught whose truth? Yours?Mine? And who judges the veracity of taught truth?

Indoctrination is just subversive teaching, happens every day, it's called commercials.

I'm suddenly having Madelyn Albright flashbacks.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Your response seems rather hysterical to me. Parents dictating to children at the point of a gun? I never said anything about that, or anything even remotely like it.

Abolishing homeschooling against the wishes of the parents is legal kidnapping, and the ones doing the kidnapping are an institutionalized version of a giant gun.

Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them.

The fact that children aren't your or the state's property to do/teach them as they please. The decision on how children should be brought up, which involves general education, is the responsibility of the parents who brought them into the world.

If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school

The content is irrelevant. The principle of self-determination isn't.

I myself am a product of homeschooling, and would openly challenge any public educated student/teacher, who advocates the state's intervention between the parent and their child, to a debate. "But i'm a teacher!!" doesn't mean anything if your students can't think independently, and to think independently means making self-determining choices, like this. Compulsory education extinguishes that natural spark, and if the teachers can't keep students in their schools or there are people who would gladly pull their children out/drop out because the only thing happening is fragmentation of their mind, then the fault is on inferior teachers and thus a waste of taxpayers money. In the absence of a taxpayer funded education system, the money will go back to the people, and using that money they will educate/send their children to schools of their choice according to their parental judgment, and in this same system good teachers will keep their jobs and bad teachers will be fired.

So this entire public education system is an emblem of mediocrity.

Originally posted by dreamingawake
Oh yeah homeschooling plans are coming to America too. While some may say she is *crazy* , informent, Charlotte Iserbyt, she has a point and is telling of what will happen with homeschooling in the future. That is if we allow it, if no one is informed.

I know many on ats are not religious but I will tell you what Satan controls in end times prophecy ,

1, religion this is why their is so many different teachings because Satan is the author of confusion

2, politics this is obvious

3, financial if you control the money you control most everything specially information and media.

4, last but not least Education threw this you can fool the masses in many ways and force his doctrine on the children young when they are easily molded

It matters not of you believe these statements but the bible warned us of it thousands of years ago and it completely makes sense if you want to control millions and billions of people.

If teaching homosexuality to kids becomes mandatory then
by all means teach them all about the bug-chasers, HIV, etc.
Somehow, I have the notion that the agenda-minded will
want the truth censored.
Home schooling is the way to go these days.
The political indoctrination is abundant in the institutionalized
system. I had a teacher in a public school who tried to force my
daughter to take-off her shirt. (a pink t-shirt with "peace not war"
stamped on it)
Most parents don't even have a clue to the
indoctrination that goes on at government institutions:
(Home schooling

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Originally posted by Astyanax
Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them. If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school, or some religious-fundamentalist nonsense about 'evil influences', I'll admit I'm wrong.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Originally posted by kaylaluv
I was seriously considering homeschooling my child, and it wasn't to teach her something different, and it certainly wasn't to teach religious fundamentalist nonsense. I simply wasn't happy with the "one-size-fits-all" method of teaching used in the public schools. I wanted to teach the same things, but I wanted to customize how it was taught to better fit my daughter's preferences for learning.

Kudos to you for rising to my challenge. However, your post suggests that in the end the arguments for sending your daughter to school rather than teaching her at home prevailed – and quite right, too. Your reason for wanting to home-school her wasn't, in the end, powerful enough to be decisive. And in fact, it's not that different from 'teaching her something different'. You wanted to teach her something differently.

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reply to post by Openeye

Thank you for replying at such length, and from the perspective of experience.

Your arguments for home schooling can be summed up as follows:

1. Schools rarely provide education of equal quality in all subjects.
   
   
2. Some of the things taught in schools are untrue, or so I believe them to be.

Neither of these is an argument for home schooling. They are arguments for improving or overhauling the school system. And No. 2 is actually the same as 'I want to teach my kids something different from what is taught in school.'

There is an important point to be made here. As a citizen, one can either be a part of society, and attempt to change it for the benefit of oneself and others, or one can reject society and seek to live apart from it. The second of these options is anti-social, and society is right to actively discourage it by every fair, legal, democratic means at its disposal. Home schooling is inherently anti-social; and all too often, especially (it seems to me) in America, it is the choice of anti-social parents seeking to bring up anti-social children.

By the way,

This is where we disagree, government has NO right to tell me or anyone else what I cannot do if I am not physically harming or defrauding anyone. It is not the role of government to be moral and intellectual police. It is to serve and protect.

None of this is in actual dispute with what I wrote earlier.

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reply to post by imherejusttoread

Abolishing homeschooling against the wishes of the parents is legal kidnapping

Unfortunately, the little horrors are returned home every day when school is out. Most parents wish they'd hang on to them a little longer.

the ones doing the kidnapping are an institutionalized version of a giant gun.

That's a lousy metaphor. Not only is it ridiculously overblown and exaggerated, it is wrong. If anything is 'an institutionalized version of a giant gun', it would be the legal penalties for failure to educate your children properly, not the officers who enforce them.

I myself am a product of homeschooling

Yes, I sort of guessed that. Couldn't tell with Openeye, though.

Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Cuervo

 

So you're telling me that IF the parents home-school, the govt gives the parents a check?

how big a check?

~packs up bags and suddenly has an interest in hockey and words that sound like 'eh~

Not sure exactly but it's pretty significant. I think it's about 700 if you want to teach what you want but it goes up depending on how tightly you follow the curriculum to double that per child.

In America, not only do parents not get paid but they also still have to pay taxes to fund schools they are not taking advantage of. Meanwhile those schools make about 10k/year per child... you'd think the government could kick a bit of that change down to the parents.

________________________

It is no coincidence that kids are put in to the institutionalized
system now at three years of age , and both parents need to
work just to pay the bills.
Next they be taking kids straight from the womb, along with feeding them
Prozac, GMO's, floride, ect. indoctrinating them into a biased
version of ideals.
It's basically indoctrination of a kibbutz system, where the
government gets hold of your kid at a young age, separates them
from the parents only to brainwash them.


HERE : another major reason to home school:

Detroit teen given four vaccinations, including Gardasil, by her school without mother's permission

source click here

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