Three cheers for Louisiana!!!

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
So why do your Beliefs need to keep people from having the same rights as you and your wife? Because they are the same? How can a Word like marriage hurt you if someone else uses it a little diffrent?

Marriage between a man and a woman eventually creates children that will continue the parents genetic code. This is impossible with two men or two women. That's what marriage is all about, merging into one, that one being the posterity of the two.

SOON YOU will be LESSER.

Can you supply me with any credible evidence of this last statement?

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Marriage between a man and a woman eventually creates children that will continue the parents genetic code. This is impossible with two men or two women. That's what marriage is all about, merging into one, that one being the posterity of the two.

So should men or women who are sterile or unable to conceive not be allowed to marry?

Originally posted by Bleys
So should men or women who are sterile or unable to conceive not be allowed to marry?

They are man and woman. There is nothing saying they'll stay sterile.

One day I believe that a heterosexual man and heterosexual woman will be led to believe that marriage is not for them, that it's for homosexual couples only.

It just looks like that's where society is headed. That it'll be a crime for people to be heterosexual.

The heterosexual male is already being discriminated against. There has been an instant where a heterosexual male has lost his job for refusing to post a pro-homosexual poster in his work area. It happened at a bank in my area. It was a year or so ago, I'll try to find the article and post it.


[edit on 9/10/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by Bleys
So should men or women who are sterile or unable to conceive not be allowed to marry?

They are man and woman. There is nothing saying they'll stay sterile.

One day I believe that a heterosexual man and heterosexual woman will be led to believe that marriage is not for them, that it's for homosexual couples only.

It just looks like that's where society is headed. That it'll will be a crime for people to be heterosexual.

I need a Tylenol after that. Mind clearing that up for those of us that actually think?

Originally posted by intrepid
I need a Tylenol after that. Mind clearing that up for those of us that actually think?

intrepid,

In 50 years, if things don't change, being a heterosexual will be something that is ridiculed and frowned upon.

That's just what I think. 50 years ago, homosexualism wasn't as rampant as it is today. It's just a different world with different values.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by intrepid
I need a Tylenol after that. Mind clearing that up for those of us that actually think?

intrepid,

In 50 years, if things don't change, being a heterosexual will be something that is ridiculed and frowned upon.

That's just what I think. 50 years ago, homosexualism wasn't as rampant as it is today. It's just a different world with different values.

This is where I don't get it. People are the way they are. The only reason I HOPE any of my kids aren't gay is because they would have to deal with this prejudice. BUT if any of my kids are gay, I'll go to the mat for them. Why does this alternate lifestyle scare you so much?

Originally posted by intrepid
This is where I don't get it. People are the way they are. The only reason I HOPE any of my kids aren't gay is because they would have to deal with this prejudice. BUT if any of my kids are gay, I'll go to the mat for them. Why does this alternate lifestyle scare you so much?

I've never said that it scares me. I think, and this is what I think, that it's disgusting to see two men or two women kissing or having affection for one another.

I have two boys and they're not going to be homosexuals because I already see it in them. They happen be attracted to these girls in their class and the thought of same sex relations makes them cringe also.

They ask me when they see two men together on television, "Why are they doing that daddy?" My answer to them is, "I have no idea sons, I don't know why a man is attracted to another man." I can't understand why a man would want to turn down a beautiful, soft woman for a hairy, hard guy. That's just me and I don't get it.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

One day I believe that a heterosexual man and heterosexual woman will be led to believe that marriage is not for them, that it's for homosexual couples only.

It just looks like that's where society is headed. That it'll be a crime for people to be heterosexual.

hmmmm That is a very ignorant statement and it is based on absolutely nothing. I doubt that even 0,1 of earth's population is gay. They are not out to destroy heterosexuals. In fact, they show a great deal of tolerance, while it is religious heterosexuals that want to destroy those who are different.
I still don't see how a marriage between two people you don't even know has any effect on YOUR life and YOUR marriage.

One more thing: I have to say it again, homosexuality is not something that you do because it is the latest fad. People are BORN that way, it is in their hormones, genes, blood, mind. It is not something that exists only in the last 50 years, homosexuality has always been a part of humanity. Ancient cultures, rome, greece, some of the greatest leaders of that time were gay.
Of course there are more gay people today then in the past. That has one simple reason, there are more people on this planet. 50 years ago there were only 1 billion people, today there are over 6 billion.
Also, in the past people had to hide the fact that they are gay, today they don't have to.
If your kid was homosexual, no amount of your talk about how bad that is would change his sexual preference. They would still feel atracted to same sex.

You have the right to feel disgusted by two men kissing, or to think that IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL BELIEF homosexuality is wrong, but you cannot force others to believe that by creating LAWS to support your BELIEF.
That is the point here.

Religion should stay out of law-making.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I have two boys and they're not going to be homosexuals because I already see it in them. They happen be attracted to these girls in their class and the thought of same sex relations makes them cringe also.

Thats interesting...mainly for the fact that many Homosexuals originally believe they are attracted to the opposite sex and whole heartedly try and believe they are Heterosexual. Many of the Homosexuals that I know did not even want to accept they were Homosexual until their teen years or after, because they thought it was "just a phase" they were going through. So, its actually not all that odd to see a "future homosexual" that engages in Heterosexual relationships throughout childhood.

As for your logic on this topic Intelearthling...its faulty at best! You have a personal vendetta against Homosexuals as you yourself has stated on numerous occasions. Your belief stretches beyond Christian dogma or soci-economic issues and into the area of just not "Denying your own Ignorance". Your statements on here lead me (and many others by the looks of it) to conclude your opinion has run itself dry, and when you are put on the defense you defend your positions with superstitious ethics.

Its just a shame that some people cannot accept others for who they are, and not have to define people by their sexual orientation. Sex is a small part of life, love is forever. I love my friends, my family, my fiance...so, does loving some of my friends that are male mean I should also be included in your dogmatic values? Sex is physical. Many christian teachings tell people to deny the materialistic world and concentrate on the spiritual, thus making the act of sex meaningless...both Homosexual and Heterosexual. You, by participating in either of the above sexual categories, are rejecting the very basis on which many of your principals lie. You are, in effect, concentrating on the physical and not the spiritual and denying your own system of beliefs.

Your values are supposed to teach love and kindness for your fellow woman and man, no matter what they display in the physical world. Its very sad to see that you have taken these values and ripped them apart to fulfill the needs of your own beliefs. Is it really that important if someone is gay or straight, when you are excluding the "person" from the equation? Surely not...

In the words of the comedian Ron White talking to one of his friends...

"Everybody is a gay, its just to what extent your gay...
Do you like Porn? Yes.
Do you like seeing two women together? No, I like to see a man and a woman making love.
Do you like the man to have a small half-flaccid Penis? No, I like a big hard......Hmmm....I did not know that about myself!"

Originally posted by Intelearthling
They are man and woman. There is nothing saying they'll stay sterile.

So if the two gay men wanting to marry, agree to donate semen at a clinic once a year, can they then be allowed to marry?

You make it too easy Intel. Just say you don't want gay marriage because God told you to hate homosexuals and be done with it, don't try to rationalize it when it's obvious you can't

Originally posted by Intelearthling
This is impossible with two men or two women. That's what marriage is all about

Oh really? T hen you would be OK with gays being "legally" married, maybe without all the silly "by god joined crap" so they can have the "legal" rights as other married couples.....I know a gay couple and when one of them was dying in the hospital her mate was not allowed in to see her as she was not family but they had been together for 18 years....can you imagine!? It's not right. Plain and simple. Oh...and yeah, that's what this world needs more of...people, never mind people building a life together and loving each other...as long as we have more damn people walking the planet!

EIDTED to add:

Here's another one for ya....I know many couple that do not want to have kids....are you saying they shouldn't get married because of this!? I guess I shouldn't of gotten married because I was finished having children and didn't want any more when I re-married...that's really an unintelligent assumption of what marriage is about! I thought it was about love and commitment...silly me!
Now I'm late for work....

[edit on 10/9/2004 by LadyV]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
They are man and woman. There is nothing saying they'll stay sterile.

You know as well as I do that some couples will never be able to conceive for physical reasons. The ability to conceive has never been a litmus test for marriage.

One day I believe that a heterosexual man and heterosexual woman will be led to believe that marriage is not for them, that it's for homosexual couples only.

That's just not going to happen. My husband and I had no intention of getting married but once you have children and set up house - you really have no choice. Too many legalities that must be done jointly under a civil union.

And that's really what I'm talking about with respect to same sex marriage. These couples have no legal recourse in many decisions you and I make daily and that we take for granted. This is not a conspiracy to diminish god or the sanctity of an institution but a necessity for many couples.

The fact that two people want to spend their lives together and simply want the same basic civil rights (not more) that you and I have should be commended and not frowned upon.

Originally posted by Paperclip
You have the right to feel disgusted by two men kissing, or to think that IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL BELIEF homosexuality is wrong, but you cannot force others to believe that by creating LAWS to support your BELIEF.

Just who is trying to force anyone? Evryone here seems to be forcing me to believe that my beliefs are wrong? Is that right?

Originally posted by Jazzerman
As for your logic on this topic Intelearthling...its faulty at best!

Maybe it is in a lot of people's eye's, but I refuse to accept the behavior as normal.

originally posted by W_HAMILTON
You make it too easy Intel. Just say you don't want gay marriage because God told you to hate homosexuals and be done with it, don't try to rationalize it when it's obvious you can't

Of course I'll never sound rational to those who believe that heterosexuals are abnormal creations.

Originally posted by LadyV
so they can have the "legal" rights as other married couples

Since when has marriage been a right? Never. It has always been an institution between man and woman, fromthe beginning of the human race! I fail to understand twisted logic. I have no need to understand twisted logic in other words.

Originally posted by Bleys
My husband and I had no intention of getting married but once you have children and set up house - you really have no choice.

Bleys. How can you call your partner "husband" when you're not married? And I know couples that has children and they're not married because it's a convenience to them. I don't agree with it, but that's them.

Message for everyone
If I have upset anyone here by what I believe, then I apologize. I will see the day when I will breath my last breath and it will be a blessing to me, because I'll be leaving this planet. It's not my home.

I really feel sorry for those who are so confused in their sexuality that they would have to say, homosexualism is normal and anything else isn't.

I feel sorry for the lost souls that accept, embrace and condone this behavior as a natural part of the human character.

This is the only time in my life I've ever discussed these matters with anyone, and frankly, I still fail to understand any of it.

I love women, the female form, the female mind and I can't imagine what's so digusting about women to a man! I am really, completely at a loss for words. Yes, I said it, the female mind. Man, without a woman's input, will never be full.

I will accept your beliefs though. That's fine with me and I will not try to change your beliefs. Just don't try and change mine. OK? Then everything will be fine.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by Bleys
My husband and I had no intention of getting married but once you have children and set up house - you really have no choice.

Bleys. How can you call your partner "husband" when you're not married? And I know couples that has children and they're not married because it's a convenience to them. I don't agree with it, but that's them.

I am married - that's the point I was making. I asked myself if feelings or my sense of responsibility or my morals changed as the result of us being married - the answer is no. My committment to my husband has not changed just because the State sanctioned our union. Our relationship is ours and not the States. The only reason we did marry is out of necessity - medical decisions, health care, home ownership. These are difficult and costly to obtain and in some cases impossible if you are not married.

This is not a moral issue but a civil rights issue. Any perceived sin against a higher being should be left to that higher being to judge. I figure we should spend more dealing with our own demons and less time judging the actions of others. At least that's how I try to live my own life.

I appreciate your thoughts nonetheless.

Sorry but the US government does not, and should not run upon the needs of "bible thumpers" who practice a belief.


I call for equality, regardless of sex, race, gay/straight, ability.

Society does not, and should be expected to run according to ones religious beliefs, if you want to live in a Theocracy.. there are plenty around the world to choose from.

I don't see how legalizing gay marriage is hurting me in any way, for I am a person who believes in equality. Whatever sexual acts they like to do inside there houses is none of your business really.

Plus, most people who are homosexuals aren't part of these political movements.. they just live like everyone else.

Let's be progressive thinkers here, not backwards.
[edit on 9-10-2004 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 9-10-2004 by RedOctober90]

Originally posted by RedOctober90
.. they just live like everyone else.

Exactly

What this old world needs is LOVE, and a lot of it! There is nothing more beautiful than seeing 2 people in love be it Gay or Straight. Everytime I see a couple holding hands or kissing a little piece of my soul thinks "everything is going to be ok"...the love outweighs the hate. When I see my Homosexual friends hugging or kissing my heart feels great because I know the love of 2 people can outweigh the hate of 1,000 others.

Love goes beyond just 2 people as well. Love for your fellow human being and for nature itself is the best feeling in the world, and I wish more people would realize it. If love for others ran more rampant in this world we may not have ever experienced the tragedy that such people involved with the KKK, Gay bashers, Al Queda, etc. have inflicted on humanity.

Love will triumph, because in the end...what else do we have?

[edit on 9-10-2004 by Jazzerman]

Posted by Intelearthling:

Just who is trying to force anyone? Evryone here seems to be forcing me to believe that my beliefs are wrong? Is that right?

You just quoted me saying that you have the right to see homosexuality as sin. Nobody is forcing you to deny that, although some people have tried to explain WHY are gays gay, that it is not something you choose.

This is more an issue of laws, this whole topic is about Louisiana's attempt to legaly ban gay marriage. Laws won't stop people from being gay, it is not something that can be regulated with laws based on one single religion. No matter how much you believe in God, Jesus and Bible, that is and always will be a subjective belief and not an objective truth. It is something for you, your own inner peace, salvation, and that is ok. A lot of people have that. But you cannot legalize your subjective world view with laws and make it objective truth which is binding for every single person that lives in your country. That is just wrong.

Might be worth mentioning here that I am religious too, though not christianity, but still a religion in which homosexuallity is considered a sin. Still, I would never support a law banning gay marriage.

If you think that religion should determine country's laws, do you agree then with Sharia, islamic law in arab countries? Do you think that it is ok what they do?

Thats's right jazzerman,

The reason behind most hate.. and hate groups, are ignorance

What do ATS say.. I think it is DENY IGNORANCE.

People are ignorant and become racist and hateful because they do not know any better. Untill one day they meet the people they hate.. then perhaps they will understand them and the hate will disapear.

Then there are those who hate anyone for no apparent reason.

This entire terrorism war is all based on ignorance as well, both sides.. either if you are on the side of Islam or the other religions. What a shame good people have to die because of cultural ignorance.