The Life and Times of John Hoover

reply to post by OneisOne

If you want me to post that, I can.

Oh if you could, and if it's no trouble, then I'd appreciate it.

Funnily enough before posting this thread, as I was writing up the last section on his death to be more specific, I did come across some information from some sources which claimed his demise was, or could be construed as, quite "suspicious." But even so I'm still not really convinced by it to be completely honest. I mean this was a 77 year old man we're talking about here - If someone wanted him dead, such as the mafia for example, then I imagine it would've been done a long time before the 70's.

He did make a lot of enemies and of course murder isn't out of the question but I just see it as very, very unlikely. People die everyday from natural causes.. many of which a lot younger than Hoover was.

But anyway, I just did a few more google searches and here's an interesting article I came across on the subject: L.A. Times: Sleuth Suspects J. Edgar Hoover's Murder

A snippet from said article:

Maybe not the whole story, posits Starrs.

Hoover had enemies. Hoover's house may have been broken into just before his death. Hoover's toiletries may have had poison placed on them. Hoover's doctor said the FBI chief didn't have serious heart problems. Hoover probably wasn't autopsied. Hoover's remains were embalmed within hours.

Ipso facto, Hoover may have been murdered.

"I hope people take this seriously. There is a need for a thorough investigation of the possibility of homicide," says Starrs, 67, who is also battling the National Park Service for the right to dig up Lewis to possibly prove that the great explorer of the American Northwest was murdered and didn't commit suicide, as is commonly thought.

Starrs also exhumed the outlaw Jesse James in 1995 to prove through DNA testing that it was, in fact, James buried in a plot near Kansas City, Mo. It was.

(Source)

Here's another article:

RumorMillNews: Was J. Edgar Hoover Murdered?

Below is an article from the "National Examiner" tabloid of January 24, 1984 entitled, "The Mysterious Death of FBI Chief J. Edgar Hoover." The article contends that Hoover may have been murdered.

Hoover was reported dead on May 2, 1972. And the Watergate "break-in" occurred a few weeks later on June 17, 1972. The "break-in" was so slipshod, it seemed that the Watergate burglars wanted to be caught. Did someone want Hoover out of the way?

Then there are others, such as Sherman Skolnick, who contended that Watergate was also partly a cover to distract from Nelson Rockefeller's ambitions to be president without an election. So the Watergate thing has many folds, including the strange Chicago plane crash of Dec. 1972 which killed Dorothy Hunt, the wife of E. Howard Hunt, along with several other key Watergate figures. Skolnick had tons of behind the scenes information on that event.

If readers have any reactions, or any information to add, please send it in. For those of you on slow dialup, allow the article below to load:

Along with this article comes this image:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/cs4f4f5734.jpg[/atsimg]

FOR THE FULL IMAGE PLEASE CLICK HERE

And of course there's many more sources on the topic of Hoovers potential murder here as well.

I am still skeptical he died from anything other than natural causes but I guess that doesn't mean anything really.. I could still be wrong as I've been wrong before and OiO, you could be onto something here.

Originally posted by Rising Against
So this whole thread was wrote up from a UK point of view.

But were your sources?

reply to post by Biliverdin

But were your sources?

Well yes, some of them.

The Spartacus.Schoolnet website (Such as this page giving a biography on Hoover for example) belongs to, as far as I'm aware, a rather nice Brit by the name of John Simkin. He's fairly well known among JFK researchers in particular. I used quite a few different pages from his site in my Opening posts too as they're brilliant and always informative. If ever you're doing research I'd recommend his site as well.

Of course given the nature of what I'm discussing here you're always going to come across American POV's in research, but the majority of this thread is British in the sense that many of the information found in sources were gathered from Brits and the thread itself was wrote up by me, a Brit... not that it matters all that much anyway though to be fair.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

But were your sources?

Well yes, some of them.

The Spartacus.Schoolnet website (Such as this page giving a biography on Hoover for example) belongs to, as far as I'm aware, a rather nice Brit by the name of John Simkin. He's fairly well known among JFK researchers in particular. I used quite a few different pages from his site in my Opening posts too as they're brilliant and always informative. If ever you're doing research I'd recommend his site as well.

Of course given the nature of what I'm discussing here you're always going to come across American POV's in research, but the majority of this thread is British in the sense that many of the information found in sources were gathered from Brits and the thread itself was wrote up by me, a Brit... not that it matters all that much anyway though to be fair.

Read the books that I recommended and you will see just what a difference it makes.

ETA...well done with getting some work by the way

reply to post by pshea38

What If?

Hey pshea38,

Thanks for that link, It's something I've come across before quite randomly in fact. But honestly, I really wouldn't give it any second thought if I was you, It's undoubtedly nonsense. I know that myself through my own research into the case. It's an interesting point of view.. but a very "out there" one to say the least and I have utmost confidence in that what they're trying to claim can, in no possible way, be true. Sorry but It's laughable and edging on the impossible.

I mean with all due respect to them but It's not even remotely close. I can't imagine any serious researcher would consider what they're trying to push.

In regards to the JFK assassination itself however, not what was being pushed in that link, well yes, he undoubtedly would've been involved in some way or another in my opinion. As with my last post I'd recommend reading the linked Spartacus.Schoolnet page I posted on Hoover. It's very interesting.

And of course this link can prove to be enlightening as well I imagine.

reply to post by Rising Against

I'm skeptical too about him dying from anything other than natural causes, I just found it interesting the articles that mentioned the American Academy of Forensic Sciences planned on holding a panel about his death at the annual meeting (1998?), then not a peep on a followup story.

I did find some info on the man that pushed for that panel, Dr. James Starrs, on the Tru website. There he even speculates suicide!

“Due to the existence of suggestive circumstances near the time of Hoover's death, the possibility of his having committed suicide cannot be overlooked. During the months before his death, he was heavily freighted in disputes with the White House over his tenure and performance as the FBI director. On the night of his death, according to his longtime secretary, he had received a disturbing phone call. Sometime between ten and midnight, President Richard Nixon had phoned him to urge him to retire. That means he was in a distraught state of mind just two to four hours prior to his estimated time of death. In addition, Jay Nash had published Citizen Hoover, a brutal assault on Hoover's career. This book was on Hoover's nightstand when his body was found, another item to give him a distinct and cumulative motive for suicide or for cardiac misadventure.

Source

OK, now to the info on Hoover being of African American descent.

I'm pulling all this from a webpage titled The Mysterious Origins of J. Edgar Hoover written by Edward Spannaus. Source

Hoover's obsessive hostility and hatred toward African-Americans was well-known throughout his career, especially in later years. What is less well-known is that rumors about J. Edgar Hoover's possible black ancestry were also widespread during his reign, both inside and outside of the Bureau. There are reports that Hoover deployed his agents to track down rumors of his black ancestry, just as he did regarding rumors and reports about his homosexuality.

Author Anthony Summers, in researching his book Official and Confidential, interviewed writer Gore Vidal, who grew up in Washington, D.C. in the 1930s. ``Hoover was becoming famous,'' Vidal told Summers, ``and it was always said of him--in my family and around the city--that he was mulatto. People said he came from a family that had `passed.' It was the word they used for people of black origin who, after generations of inbreeding, have enough white blood to pass themselves off as white. That's what was always said about Hoover.''

I'll be honest and say I had never heard of this until I found it a week ago. It's very interesting and not something I expected. It's one part of the story I had not read before.

Posted in the article under the section The Mississippi Hoovers

As Millie McGhee, now 52, tells the story in her book Secrets Uncovered, and also in interviews with EIRNS, her grandfather, whom she called ``Big Daddy,'' asked her how J. Edgar Hoover's name had come up.

``In my history class I learned that he is the director of the FBI,'' young Millie answered. ``Someone said he has even more power than the President of the United States.''

``Well, that could be true,'' her grandfather responded. ``He does have a lot of power.'' He then shrugged, and went on: ``That old goat is related to me, he is my second cousin.''

Her grandfather warned her not to tell anyone. ``This is a family secret,'' the girl was told. Her grandfather said that Hoover was ``passing,'' and that he could have them all killed, that they could be burned in their beds as they sleep. ``He doesn't want the secret out, and he is a powerful man!'' the trembling young girl was told.

When the young girl asked her grandfather if there wouldn't be records, such as a birth certificate, which would show him to be related to the family of former slaves, her grandfather told her: ``J. Edgar Hoover has a lot of power. He can destroy files, and he's already done it.'

Millie McGhee hired a genealogist to help sort through her family history and find out if there was any truth to the oral tradition.

In subsequent research, conducted since the publication of the first edition of McGhee's book, Ott has found census records for Mississippi that also correspond to the family oral tradition regarding ``Emily,'' and he has recently found records which appear to link the Maryland and the Mississippi Hoover families. Ott also found strange--and highly unusual--alterations and erasures in some of the census records pertaining to other Hoovers in Washington.

Much more on the website, which you can find here, along with a list of sources used for the article.

OiO

reply to post by H1ght3chHippie

I've recently watched the movie J Edgar, which was rather interesting as well. You did not - by chance - watch it as well and got inspired by it in regards to your thread ?

Saw it for the first time just tonight.

It's a fine film. It has It's typical Hollywood spin of course but a fine film nonetheless..

Was about to make a separate thread on this but will just add to this excellent thread instead.
I have never seen this docudrama before I just chanced up on it,but it is fascinating many of us are aware that he was gay,but how many knew he was socially black by American race classification which he tried to hide,the matter of him being anti-Black makes alot more sense if ever there was a reason,it was to hide his own past,as he and others members of his family was passing,the documentary gets kind of soupy at times but that can be forgiven by the revelation of records,I won't be a spoiler however so pls watch and learn something about human nature.
And more disturbing is the amount of incest in his family it will confuse the heck out of you,but you have to view the vid.