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The Life and Times of John Hoover

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posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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First, let me say that I am so glad you decided to go ahead and repost this. As usual it is brilliantly done and I learned several things that I had not known previously such as the original BoI agents were made up of secret service personnel. I believe to teach as well as learn is one of the purposes of this site. I thank you for that.

I could not help but chuckle as I was reading the thread, in that so much of what Hoover implemented over the course of his career we, as American citizens, still see to this day. The fact that the American government states that they scraped the COINTELPRO program is a farce. Why would they truly scrap a program that is so effective in achieving the desired result... whether a true result or a false one being painted as truth? They wouldn't. Say what you will about the man, but even to those who see him as a monster (like I tend to think), he was a master at developing techniques to bring about a desired result. The fact that the mafia actually used his own techniques against him in order to blackmail him is just a stroke of brilliance and in fact had me laughing at one point, Karma and all that.

Several things struck me to comment on however as I was reading. You mention this:


See, we know for a fact it, the mafia, does exist today and the very idea that they do not is practically inconceivable to most reading this thread right now I imagine - ......... It's even affecting the world today in fact although not as much as it did in the lawless years around the 1920's and the early 30's and so on..
Bold emphasis mine.

And this is what they want you to think that they, while still around, have become ineffectual and a shadow of what they once were. The fact that they were able to tie J. Edgars hands when it came to fighting organized crime providing a smoke screen for them to operate more openly will become ironic in a moment. After Hoover was no longer around things changed. With Bobby Kennedy's relentless persuit to bring the mob to justice it simply drove them to find a way to make it look like they'd gone legit, while carrying on business as usual. Case in point, it is one of the worst kept secrets here in western NY that the 'mob' went legit through the political system electing members of their own to positions of local power, from there to Albany (the state capital) and from there springboarding to Washington not just in the form of politicians but lobbyists, judges and high powered attorneys. After all, it's easier to have one of your own in high places than to have to find ways to blackmail them or buy them off, right? So we see here that again by using Hoover's tactics the mob eventually found a way around Kennedy's efforts to take them down. One has to wonder what the whole political arena may look like if Hoover were not so paranoid of being outed as a homosexual. I find it amazing that the actions, or sometimes the in-actions, of one man in power has the ability to bring so many "what if" scenarios to mind.


With the emergence of this new crime organisation they were able to scientifically tie criminals to crime (with the use of the first ever advanced scientific crime laboratory - Also known as the FBI laboratory) with the use of fingerprinting for example, statistics were kept on crime, analysis etc.
Bold emphasis mine.

I mention this because just last evening while watching the local evening news here in western NY, our local government wants to take fingerprinting and add to it DNA collection of people involved with misdemeanors as well as felonies to be input into a database in the interest of "national security". After reading your thread I thought, J. Edgar would be so proud to know we are today taking his original principals of 'crime fighting', slapping a new coat of paint on them and calling it necessary in the interest of 'national security'......( Buffalo News Article for anyone interested in that DNA collection bit)

At any rate, thanks again for the awesome thread. I cannot wait to see if there is any answer to Timelord's question on possible connections between big banking and Hoover...do we see a possible Hoover Part 2 in the making?




posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Wow...this is why I joined this site. Amazing research and excellent conclusions.
If only all threads were this well done.


As to the content, I believe that Hoover was probably the most vain and deluded of American "leaders." It's distressing to me that he wasn't removed from power before he could harm Bobby and damage the civil rights movement.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Excellent thread! I'll never forget the day that Hoover died. I was sitting in my high school journalism class, and a fellow student came in the door and said "Hey, I just heard on the radio that J. Edgar Hoover died", and my teacher said "GOOD!" We all laughed.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Well RA terriffic reasearch as always. It's gonna take me awhile to get through the whole thing , but I will, I always do.Hoover was a real SOB from everything I have read before this thread. I'm guessing that you found much the same thing. I'm looking forward to this read.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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Read your reply on the other thread...happy you followed through with this one again.

It offers insight I've missed before. Hoover's involvement in it-COINTELPRO- and the fact been around longer than I remembered from prior study...concerning! Lots more to take in.

Again props for the research and info.

edit on 23-2-2012 by dreamingawake because: Moved to reply.



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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This is WHY I love ATS! GREAT WORK! S&F for you my good man....!



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Great thread RA.


But as the goalposts shift, the game changes!
Only the (sifted) bones remain, from a vast body of uncertain truth.

What If?

Hoover would have been up to his neck in this, of course.

How can we know the game, when we can't even tell the shape or form of the ball?
edit on 23-2-2012 by pshea38 because: fixed link



posted on Feb, 23 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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S&F, to be honest I wish I could give you several. Great research, very thorough source information, and lots of original material. A shining example of the quality that can be wrought by ATS members. So very glad you endured the unfortunate circumstances of yesterday to repost.

I was particularly fascinated to learn so much detail about CONTELPRO, and the ties with organized crime. I grew up in the 60s, and I was too young to read myself about Hoover, or the Black Panthers for example, but I clearly remember the sense of understanding of those around me, or should I say lack of understanding. Hoover was an all American hero, the Panthers were complete domestic terrorists, and so was anybody that was associated with them - this was the message that was fed to and taken up by the majority at the the time.

Fast forward to today. Seems like the MSM and government continue to perpetuate distortions and outright lies. We need to learn from history. And your thread certainly helps us to do just that.





posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


That's a really good question but to be completely honest I haven't. I'm sure there is at least some information out there tying him to Big banks though, but I've just never really come across any if I remember right.

If I come across any this will be the first place I post it of course.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Hi there! Because your question to RA in reference to any connection between J Edgar and big banking intrigued me, I've spent the better part of yesterday afrernoon and last night looking for any connections. I have not come across any direct connections to big banking but I have come across, several times, reference to J. Edgar's relentless persuit of a man called Eustace Mullins (1923-2010).

Apparently Mr. Mullins was a protoge of Ezra Pound. From what I have been able to find on Mr. Mullins he was the first person to investigate and expose the Federal Reserve System to the general public in a book titled "Mullins on the Federal Reserve" published in 1952. A staff member at the Library of Congress, he was later fired for the publication of this book.

J. Edgar is attributed as having described Mullins this way:

“I’m sure you know that Eustace Mullins is the most dangerous man in America.” - J. Edgar Hoover


Source for the above information can be found at this source. Yes, I know its David Icke's site but it is the most concise bio on Mullins I could find as it pertains to the Hoover/Banking connections.

This is basically it, as I've not been able to find anything direct yet but I'll keep looking.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn
 


Thats pretty impressive in itself. I would suspect that if there was a connection it would be a very deeply buried one. Keep up the research and please U2U me if you find anything.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


Did I miss it or did you not mention his cross dressing and black mailing and how it was a source of embarrassment within the FBI up to and after his death?



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


I've heard/read a lot about that myself. RA, do you have any comment? I would like to know.



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


John Hoover was a traitor to everything that this country stood for.

His cowardice lead to the deaths of key influential members of the civil rights movement.

His end justified the means.

He was nothing short of a coward and anyone that idolizes such cowards should try and understand what it was that they were idolizing in the first place.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


John Hoover is indeed a seemingly bottomless rabbit hole.
Thanks for the awesome thread RA!

There are so many connections here that can be proven, one must wonder
how anyone could deny that the many conspiracies are all tied together
weaving a tapestry full of danger, and endless intrigue.

I leave this little tidbit here for you, to think about. Consider the
connections between the emergence of the FBI,
Woodrow Wilson and The Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve - 1913
The FBI 1913 - Current www.fbi.gov...

Thats not all, and looking into it, my mind was blown.

The early days of the FBI with Secret Service men as agents.
historicalgmen.squarespace.com...

www.archives.gov...



edit on 25-2-2012 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but it is worth looking at Hoover from another perspective. Namely from my side of the pond. You'd be amazed at what you'll find. Eye-opening to say the least.

I recommend Peter Wright's Spy Catcher, for starters. And MI6, by Nigel West.

Back to the US, James Jesus Angleton provides some interesting insight too.

Poor little Hoover, picked for a reason, and his paranoia spoon-fed. Bless his frilly panties.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Hey all,

Please just let me quickly say first of all that I apologize for not posting in this thread too much. The thing is I found work.


..It's something I'm going to spend a lot of time concentrating on in the future too so I won't be online all that much anymore I imagine and that's why I've not been replying here as well. But, this being so, I'll try and get a few more replies in over the coming days as I find this topic very interesting.

Thanks to those who posted so far too.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Rising Against
Please just let me quickly say first of all that I apologize for not posting in this thread too much. The thing is I found work.


First let me say... Yay! And congratulations! Hope it's something you will love doing! There nothing quite like finding a good job that you can enjoy.

While doing some searches right after you posted this thread I stumbled across a conspiracy theory about Hoover's death. There wasn't too much about it online, just one reference, but if you want I can dig it out and post it here. If I'm remembering correctly it had something to do with the American Academy of Forensic Sciences wanting to investigate, but I couldn't find any other information.

I also read a few references about people claiming that Hoover was "passing". For those that aren't familiar with that term it was used (and unfortunately probably still is some places) for people that came from African-American families or blended families and their skin color is light enough for them to "pass" as Caucasian. Some claim that was why he was so hell bent on bringing down the civil rights movement, he was ashamed of his own heritage. If you want me to post that, I can.

Again, congratulations RA!!!
OiO



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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Hey truth,

Agreed - Cointelpro is a fascinating project, just truly fascinating. As I said to you on Skype as well.. I was genuinely taken back a little bit by what I found in regards to it as well. I was genuinely shocked at the lengths they went to. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at such a thing.. but I was. I mean it's all just shocking really. They even seemed to go down the route of murdering people and for what? Because they wanted something they deserved to have. Sad really.

A government which is prepared to kill It's own citizens because they have become an inconvenience to them is a very scary government indeed and to be honest.. I don't see why we should be any less afraid of them today. As you yourself just said:


Hoover was an all American hero, the Panthers were complete domestic terrorists, and so was anybody that was associated with them - this was the message that was fed to and taken up by the majority at the the time.

Fast forward to today. Seems like the MSM and government continue to perpetuate distortions and outright lies. We need to learn from history.


So very true..
edit on 1-3-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 



I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but it is worth looking at Hoover from another perspective. Namely from my side of the pond. You'd be amazed at what you'll find. Eye-opening to say the least.


If you mean the UK, which I assume you do.... then you should know that's where I'm from.


So this whole thread was wrote up from a UK point of view.

Anyway, thanks for those book recommendations.





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