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Norway Vs U.S. Prison System

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posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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I don't think that either system is particularly good.

The American system seems to treat criminals like animals, with little emphasis on rehabilitation and preventing recidivism from convicted criminals.

The Norwegian system, on the other hand, appears to be a self-flagellating exercise from the state, passing on responsibility and genuine culpability from the criminal onto ''society''. ''We created this societal mess, so let's re-educate you and be nicey-nice to you to make up for our mistakes'' appears to be the message which they're sending.


I personally believe that there should be reasonable, safe facilities and housing for inmates, but they should have to do meaningful, productive hard labour as recompense for their crimes, as payment for their food and hospitality and as a deterrent to others.

In the cases of property or financial crime, I would make burglars, fraudsters, robbers, etc. have to perform the number of hours ''slave labour'' which would equate to the amount of money which they stole, in addition to the sentence which they'd received for their crime. For example, if someone steals £100,000, then they won't get released until they've done work which would amount to earning £100,000 through wages for their labour.




posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


In some respects for some crimes, it is ''our mistake''. Crime is a multi-facted subject. It is not just the act itself, it involves economics, environment, education, welfare, health and mental state, social services, home life etc etc.

I am going to generalise here, but most criminals do not come from the middle and upper classes, they come from people that have had a poor upbringing or poor environment/education etc. There are obviously exceptions to the rule.

When it comes to the Norweigan system and other Scandinavian countries, their countries provide more in the way of social policies and therefore their poor are looked after better at the start and so have a less chance of entering into crime.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


You are wrong.

I am saying that because action A works for country A, it does not necessitate that it will work for country B.

The US must find their own solutions to their own problems. Norway's solution will not work for them.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Ugh, where to begin....I have been a Correctional Peace Officer for the California Dept of Corrections for many years. I have only worked at a maximum security institution. The inmates I am around have no desire to become rehabilitated. Just ask one...but then mine are generally serving two or three life sentences for horrendous crimes. I have one who is serving a 1200 year term.

I am not confrontational, and any smart C/O is not either.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Hi all


I'll like to correct one major thing in the first video.. Maximum sentence in Norway is what is called "lifetime" and it is a sentence of 21 years. After the 21 years are served you can in very reare cases get detention sentence for up to 5 years x2. So the maximum sentence you can get here in Norway is a total of 31 years behind bars!!

NOT 21 x 5 witch is said in the video!

And on the other hand it is very rear that anyone is sentence to 21 years, and eaven more rearly to serve the full 21 years if you get the maximum punishment...

By the way... the average punishment for murder in Norway is 7.5 years....

Love and light
Sat Nam
edit on 17/2/2012 by eriathwen because: Added info on average murder sentence..



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by boncho
 


You are wrong.

I am saying that because action A works for country A, it does not necessitate that it will work for country B.

The US must find their own solutions to their own problems. Norway's solution will not work for them.



You are saying Norway's solutions would not work for the US, meaning that there are underlying factors of why it would not.

The only thing I can think of is criminal attitude. Unless perhaps the laws of the US are turning people into criminals and encouraging criminal behavior/encouraging gang culture in/out the detention centers.

Or perhaps you had a different take?

Unless of course the crime stats in the US have been the same throughout it's entire history. But I highly doubt that is the case. In other words, there are some factors contributing to this culture. How about not skirting the issue and putting some thought into it.
edit on 17-2-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by evelspice
Ugh, where to begin....I have been a Correctional Peace Officer for the California Dept of Corrections for many years. I have only worked at a maximum security institution. The inmates I am around have no desire to become rehabilitated. Just ask one...but then mine are generally serving two or three life sentences for horrendous crimes. I have one who is serving a 1200 year term.

I am not confrontational, and any smart C/O is not either.


Tell me. The majority of the people you house, are they there for their first crime every committed or do they have a long rap sheet?

If they have a long rap sheet, we could probably find some link between their current placement, their behavior and the system they have been a part of most of their lives.

Could we not?



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by boncho
[

My unit is a little different than most. But when I worked on the "Main Line" (normal prison gang yard), most of the inmates were repeat offenders. I remember one paroling on a Friday, and telling all of us he was just going on vacation and would be back in a few days. He was right! Monday morning he was back!

It's quite sad when you see these kids wanting to come to prison and make a name for themselves, to rise up the ranks in their gang. Prison in Cali is not a punishment for many, it's an honor. What a jacked up society we have!



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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In the prison cluster I work in, we get a lot of repeat offenders, normally alcoholics or drug users. A lot of them reoffend to get back into prison as they have nowhere else to go and want bed and board ........... How sad is that?

Some of the smart arses like one of the prisons in the cluster as it has a 'rep' ..... It used to be the hardest jail in the UK at one time (it isnt now, but they dont know that at first). The one next door is the one they DONT want on their prison documents as it is a sex offender prison (ex-IRA holding prison).

As the previous poster will probably agree, inmates do not think the same way we 'normal' people do, they have a warped sense of the world and their part in their little piece of it. They will take an overdose, not to kill themselves, but just to have 'a day out' at the hospital.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by evelspice
reply to post by boncho
[

My unit is a little different than most. But when I worked on the "Main Line" (normal prison gang yard), most of the inmates were repeat offenders. I remember one paroling on a Friday, and telling all of us he was just going on vacation and would be back in a few days. He was right! Monday morning he was back!

It's quite sad when you see these kids wanting to come to prison and make a name for themselves, to rise up the ranks in their gang. Prison in Cali is not a punishment for many, it's an honor. What a jacked up society we have!



If they are repeat offenders, and they are making ways for themselves to get back into the prison, one could assume that there is no rehabilitation in the climate they are living in. In fact, it seems the prison culture likes to warp the heads of these people and make them believe that: that life is all there is to live.

Is it when you give people absolutely nothing they look to grasp onto something?

Perhaps the system in Norway isn't so bad.

One thing about the US system and other similar places, is that changes won't happen overnight. I don't believe any change would take effect for nearly a generation, if a new system were to be implemented. You would have to wash away all the brainwashing that has been done over the last half-century.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Really? You need it spelled out?

One is a society based on individualism, one is a society based on collectivism.

The solutions that work inside a collectivist society will have a very low probability of working in an individualist society. The same would hold true in reverse. For the simple fact that the 'rehabilitation methods' of each go against the base teachings of each others culture.

Even methods between Canada and the US (that have been tried) have not worked as well as anticipated (or at all), and those two countries have far more in common than the US and Norway.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Cable TV is not worth the money it costs.

It's programming!

And it's perfect for prisoners because combined with the crap they eat, it keeps them in line.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by boncho
 


Really? You need it spelled out?

One is a society based on individualism, one is a society based on collectivism.

The solutions that work inside a collectivist society will have a very low probability of working in an individualist society. The same would hold true in reverse. For the simple fact that the 'rehabilitation methods' of each go against the base teachings of each others culture.

Even methods between Canada and the US (that have been tried) have not worked as well as anticipated (or at all), and those two countries have far more in common than the US and Norway.



So when the incarceration rates were lower in the US, does that mean the country as based on collectivism?

What are the "base teachings" exactly?

Canada is now starting to implement US style justice, most likely going to end up with the same consequences.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by evelspice
reply to post by boncho
[

My unit is a little different than most. But when I worked on the "Main Line" (normal prison gang yard), most of the inmates were repeat offenders. I remember one paroling on a Friday, and telling all of us he was just going on vacation and would be back in a few days. He was right! Monday morning he was back!

It's quite sad when you see these kids wanting to come to prison and make a name for themselves, to rise up the ranks in their gang. Prison in Cali is not a punishment for many, it's an honor. What a jacked up society we have!



My intiutions says that prisoners in decent surroundings will behave more civillized than when you keep them in a filthy dump. Bot that it will solve all problems but it will be a start to keep the place somewhat humain.

There are other ways to alter the behaviour of uptight and restless people. Music for instance....can you imagine hat will happen if the imates must listen to this the entire day? LOL



What I am trying to say that certain music can contribute to the peace in the facility. But I understand it will be not enough to "please" everyone.

You mentioned these repeat offenders who WANT to be jailed. When it is known why this person is coming back, maybe the authorities should adapt their sentece for him. In such a way that it will not be "profitable" for him to return.





edit on 19/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Kids are getting involved in gangs not because of the laws that may be shaping the way things are but because kids are becoming numb to all the violence around them and to be brutally upfront a lot of suburban kids from middle class neighborhoods are getting involved in gangs because they think it's cool..go on facebook and look at all the little white girls flashing gang signs...is that because the laws are driving this to happen...agree to disagree...



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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I'm not a 100% sure where I stand on Rehab vs punishment. A lot of crimes I think should favor Rehab instead of punishment. Though the more heinous crimes should definitely be punished.

Either way its not hard to see our system is broken. Though looking at Norway's prisons I wouldn't mind committing a crime over there.. Prison looks nice


Which is the problem I don't won't to go to a U.S prison, compared to a Norway prison. However I don't really want to commit any crimes. And the people who do might just have something wrong with them(depending on the crime) however some crimes are unforgivable.

Like I said I'm conflicted.




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