Jacques Vallee: Implications of UFO Phenomena - Thinking Allowed.

Thought this was a pretty darn interesting 'Thinking Allowed' interview with Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove and Jacques Vallee who shares his thoughts about the true nature of the UFO phenomenon, physical trace evidence and physiological effects on UFO witnesses -he also makes some interesting comments about his investigations in Brazil (think it's the Colares case) and how UFO reports in the US are indistinguishable from other reports around the world.

There's also a rare clip here where he discusses historical/religious sightings and how there may be more to the UFO subject than just a physical component.

Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove interviews Dr. Jacques Vallée on the subject of UFOs. Vallée is a computer scientist who contributed greatly to the core architecture of ARPANET (the military prototype of the Internet) and an astronomer who developed the first digital map of Mars for NASA. In the late 1960s he was brought aboard to assist Dr. J. Allen Hynek of Northwestern University on the public USAF investigation of UFOs. Together with Hynek, he concluded that the USAF was responsible for obstructing a proper investigation of the phenomenon. He continued to pursue UFO research independently. He was Steven Spielberg's model for the French scientist in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

E-Books:
•Passport to Magonia - On UFOs, Folklore, and Parallel Worlds (pdf)
•Dimensions (pdf)
•Forbidden science: journals, 1957-1969

reply to post by karl 12


Dear karl 12,

You left out the fact that he is the most experienced scientist still alive who has investigated this phenomenom and that many of the people who study UFOs hate him because he says that they are not alien in nature; but, in fact are from another dimension. Not a critique of you, just wanting people to understand that this man has more knowledge than anyone living. Thanks for posting the interviews, I have heard him many times and will listen again. Peace.

I watched the first 8mins of this film, and have to comment..

Personally, there's only 1 question that will answer this phenomena, in 1977, could there have been this kind of technology back then, (essentially having the energy of a nuclear reactor withing the size of a small sized studio).

2nd, I do NOT agree with the idea that this phenomenon is coming from our own minds, sorry, I just can't buy this based on the fact that; if it was coming from out own minds then how is it possible that we can take pictures of these solid objects, have thousands of reports from police, commercial/military/private pilots of the same thing and some of this phenomenon is being captured on radar.

3rd, it's either deep secret black budget ops or it's ET, plain ans simple.

EDIT to add; Starting at 7:55 mark of the first video, I just heard his statement that during the Watergate investigation, there was going to be a an attempt to surface a sub and have it show/paint a holographic image of Christ over the island of Cuba................................I've NEVER heard of that one before.....

can is this actually be confirmed ?? here's the only thing I've found so far,

Well, I would remind you that during the Watergate investigation, it was discovered that there was a plan, originated in the White House to surface a submarine off the coast of Cuba, and paint the second coming of Christ over the island of Cuba using holograms. This is well within our technology today. The idea was that, since there is a large Catholic population in Cuba, they would be so upset by this vision that they would saturate the communication channels, the telephone system in Cuba, long enough for an invasion to take place.

source

However, it's verbatim from the interview of JV above... so, until i see a document or UT vid of congressman/witness of some sort, I'll remain skeptical

So nice to listen to a couple of true intellectuals discuss the phenomena, rather than argue about it.

Personally, I think Jacques maybe onto something. I mean, why does it have to be a purely physical phenomena? I like him a lot. Very articulate and obviously very passionate, without the sales pitch that we hear from so many so called researchers and debunkers.

SnF Mr Karl.

I like it, the anchor doesn't have a clue but Vallee is interesting.

Its not recent footage and hes totally right about the military advancement influencing alot of sighings.
About the ET folklore, I myself find the subject fascinating, we always confront our belief system in a religious way. Its like we have no choice but to believe into something. Its either, the believer, the skeptic, the scientist or Tim Tebow, everyone think they are right while they cant. Its hard to have a stance in between, people will usually jump in the first bandwagon corresponding their belief system, "BEST UFO CASE EVER", " Its a bird", " Lens flare", "Its Jesus"

When you think about it, ET's exist even if they dont. How did we manage to create the concept out of thin air?
Religion, it always comes down to our weak mind.

This is the one thread I posted about his book 'Dimensions'-www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes he is fascinating and so are his findings. Now, how about the religious people who warned of demons? Are they not correct now as far as Valle is concerned? There were lot of mocking going on against those people for stating them as demons. According to the Hindu mythology there are demons, angelic creatures and divine layers of existence. But why or how these beings are classified? According to what traits? How do we reach the angelic or godly realm or are we stuck here forever?

None of the questions were answered.

Jacques Valle was always interesting, but I was firmly in the E.T. hypothesis for awhile. As first choice anyway. Something along the lines of Jungian thought was second place.

However, the more I looked and delved and scoured books and the internet--when I took all of the phenomena as a whole--I came to the some of the same conclusions: Yes, it's physical. Heck, I even believe they can inhabit a planet if they want to. But if they're from any planet why look any further than one-slim-dimension over?

I'm reading and re-reading Dr. Jacques Vallee at the present moment. As far as any Scientist studying & publishing in the U.S., I find no one even close to him in scientific approach & experience.

I mean Stanton is a Scientist, but anyone, I believe can see the difference in degree of proficiency, publishing, actual DOD research on multiple occasions, a close association with another true Scientist (Hynek) who both after much study came to the same conclusions basically.

Vallee asks really good questions and expects his readers to do the same. An extremely lucid thinker, this is a man who really did help invent the internet.

It's also important for any researcher to put their big boy or girl panties on and realize that while it in no way negates the legitimacy of the phenomena, the military/intelligence world HAS muddied the waters...some of your most cherished beliefs might be red-herrings.

Good to know the difference is all I'm saying.

Thanks for the VIDS & OP , Karl12, You Always Rock!!

It's 20 degrees here and the wind is howling like a banshee from another dimension yuk-yuk, and I'ma take a break from reading Vallee and watch him in these.

It s nice to see a thread on Vallee. I find his theories intriguing, and his conclusions, though seemiingly always tenuous (a good thing), are surprising. He never seems to come out and say exactly what he might think it is (I think just a side effect of his being a true investigator). The Jungian hypothesis I think entails the psychoid, which Jung posited in his work (it s in the Jungian encycopedias somewhere), which is a kind of substance made up of both mind and matter. I think Jaques is more than hinting at this. I like what he says that at the very least it makes us aware that we do not truly understand the nature of reality; which is an emminently reasonable conclusion to my way of thinking. I think the problem comes in when we try to define something "extra-dimensional', because even though there are scientific theories taking this seriously now (Lisa Randall Brane theory for example, can posit n-dimensional!, not just 11 all curled up) that it s not clear how that relates to the human sphere of activity - a religious approach can coincide with a purely physical theory including a multi-dimensional approach, religious thought often takes extra-dimensional spaces (heaven, hell, bardo etc.) as a taking off point - the super-natural can be seen as the extra-dimensional, just couched in different language, and perhaps from more human experiences of said things) So I think Vallee is trying to navigate through this semantic landmine at times.

I think we will have a huge shift with regards to what reality actually is in (hopefully) the not to distant future. The study of the quantum world is slowly revealing that matter is influenced by mind.I'd go so far as to say perhaps all is mind/consciousness.

If this was the case it would lend weight to all the high strangeness the likes of Vallee et al describe as being both physical and non physical in nature, sort of a two way street between the states were mind manifests matter and matter influences mind.

I strongly believe there are strange things going down on this planet and having spent a decade or two looking through most topics covered on the ats board index (plus a few odd personal experiences) I'm really drawn to a consciousness derived answer to it all.

The more intently we look in the atomic world the smaller it gets, the further we look into the cosmos the more infinite it becomes.

It's as if we need to keep looking but never get to the conclusion.

Originally posted by macdad1
I think we will have a huge shift with regards to what reality actually is in (hopefully) the not to distant future. The study of the quantum world is slowly revealing that matter is influenced by mind.I'd go so far as to say perhaps all is mind/consciousness.

If this was the case it would lend weight to all the high strangeness the likes of Vallee et al describe as being both physical and non physical in nature, sort of a two way street between the states were mind manifests matter and matter influences mind.

I strongly believe there are strange things going down on this planet and having spent a decade or two looking through most topics covered on the ats board index (plus a few odd personal experiences) I'm really drawn to a consciousness derived answer to it all.

The more intently we look in the atomic world the smaller it gets, the further we look into the cosmos the more infinite it becomes.

It's as if we need to keep looking but never get to the conclusion.

You have it right but there is more to this than we can understand.
Life exists within a fractal , developing ,altering, and headed in a direction of universal consciousness.
Time is flexible to a degree as the past cannot be altered but the timelines can.Now we are at a crux in the next phase.ie: the level 2 technology. We cannot embrace this without clearing the mistakes or actions of the first.
I could say more, but I wish you Peace!

reply to post by karl 12


Check out SETI Discovery Fleet of UFO's heading towards Earth on youtube..and check out The Disclosure Project by Doctor Steven Greer

Amy in NC

Jacques Vallee disinformation agent.. and the reason why yall don't know if because you haven't seen enough...

Originally posted by greyer
Jacques Vallee disinformation agent.. and the reason why yall don't know if because you haven't seen enough...

No, greyer, those multi-dimensionals that you have had contact with are the Original disinfo agents. I like you, so I must tell you the truth.

Your mind has been messed with by the Trickster, or the Ahriman, or the jinn, or a demon, or an ultra-terrestrial, or spirit...glowing, pulsating things often and nuts & bolts conundrums the next. They got a lot o' names. They're tricky like that.

But anyhoo, greyer, your mind is being messed with by the very consciousness the good Doctor V. believes exists. You would do well to maybe reconsider. I hope we remain amiable.

Maybe it is the Jungian collective/archetype or some such, but just maybe it it something separate yet symbiotic with us...and more menacing than we sometimes want to comfortably acknowledge..

Good luck to us ALL in our own search for truth.

Really encouraging to see a Jacques Vallee thread getting solid reception. Starred and flagged, something I rarely do these days. I own at least six of his books, and eagerly devoured them like Whitney Houston on an 8-ball. I know many people who've been in this game for more than 10 years and, like me, they've become rather cynical and pessimistic. The amount of conflicting data, obvious disinfo, not-so-obvious disinfo, genuine mysteries, government-sponsored 'incidents', physical residue, powerful mental abberation... this begins to weigh heavy.

JV seems to rise above all of this - maybe it is because he seems truly passionate, inspired to solve the mystery no matter what it takes. And of course his particular approach, using the scientific method, is his most noteworthy quality. But reading his books, or watching videos of him, makes me feel like this mystery is not a hopeless quagmire - like Whitney Houston's heroin addiction - but that it can be solved.

reply to post by The GUT


Ha Ha The Gut I am liking your posts more each time I run across them. Some of us are not so enamoured of the Doctor (If you will bear with our misinterpretation...)

The Master

reply to post by Komodo
The people who are abducted might only "think" and "believe" they were abducted because the aliens projected the whole scenario into their minds...

Maybe this is what our dreams actually are,alien induced illusions...

Its also possible that while a false abduction scenario is projected into our minds,an illusional cover story,its our souls that are actually being abducted and taken somewhere while our bodies are placed into some type of suspended animation...

I also think that its highly likely that personal and widespread emotional distress is the trigger and the key that is unlocking and releasing these temporary psychic thought forms from our collective subconscious...

We are telepathically projecting our desires to be rescued by superior beings and the closer we get to our own destruction through atomic war,the more often these things are seen and encountered...

Thats what ufos,flying saucers,alien beings,sasquatch,lake monsters,modern werewolves,cornwall birdman, scape ore swamp lizard man,springheel jack ect,ect might actually be and why they remain ever elusive phantoms never captured,they are only partly real...

In one case,a woman awoke in bed to see a helicopter over her house as if the intervening ceiling and roof had disappeared.She also saw 2 unusual humanoid beings at the foot of the bed.Fortunately 2 friends were able to witness this scene,they saw a blue sphere of light around her,as she did,with brighter lights shooting through it, but they heard no helicopter and saw no beings.The blue light apparently created a virtual-reality scenario...www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

A virtual reality scenario?...Or perhaps...as i mentioned above...maybe only her soul was taken somewhere?

Originally posted by The GUT
No, greyer, those multi-dimensionals that you have had contact with are the Original disinfo agents. I like you, so I must tell you the truth.

Your mind has been messed with by the Trickster, or the Ahriman, or the jinn, or a demon, or an ultra-terrestrial, or spirit...glowing, pulsating things often and nuts & bolts conundrums the next. They got a lot o' names. They're tricky like that.

But anyhoo, greyer, your mind is being messed with by the very consciousness the good Doctor V. believes exists. You would do well to maybe reconsider. I hope we remain amiable.

Maybe it is the Jungian collective/archetype or some such, but just maybe it it something separate yet symbiotic with us...and more menacing than we sometimes want to comfortably acknowledge..

Good luck to us ALL in our own search for truth.

Hey there, I like your postings also, they are filled with knowledge that I don't have. The reason why I said Jacques Vallee is a disinformation agent (which not many would think), is because I know he had full awareness of the alien invasion on the Brazilian island of Colares in 1977 and he was briefed by the military, has he ever talked about that? He knew all about abductions and he was best friends with one of the greatest abduction researchers in the world (to my knowledge very few even know about this because she said he was always 'secret' about things). Hynek even knew about the abductions. Jacques does not disclose these things to the public as far as I know, maybe because he can't and is not allowed. The way I seperate a disinfo agent is between simplicity and abundance, the truth is not many things it is just one, they try to confuse you to think of various alternatives that range out of the circle to me.

Whether they are ghosts or physical like us, they are skinny white beings that can grow tall, the shorter ones appear to be young adults. There is another being on board, who is the scariest and looks like a praying mantis.

I have not had contact and I was not abducted, I was extremely close to it all though. I didn't hike up the Dulce mountain 20 miles west of the Archuletta Mesa in 1979, but I just happened to be walking by and I walked very close to the real thing, I admit it has many paranormal properties. The case is that I have discovered so much that they could be close to me (which I am not sure anyone would have an alien close to them, but who knows maybe Jimi Hendrix had an alien close to him and thats how he did it), or, evidence shows that in all cases aliens keep secret to the abductee for decades that anything happened. In that case I would be a true abductee and not a contactee, because the process of an abductee would be for an alien to 'parent' the individual and to steal his soul. When you get into the dynamics and relationship aliens have with human souls then we would take the word contactee and throw it out the window, as the word was created by hoaxers. One has to be familiar with why cows and people were being abducted, it was to create lifeforms. There was also a side project, when the aliens get close and look into the eye of an abductee they are researching the depths of their subconscious. They are able to know everything the person has ever experienced which includes lineage, dreams, dislikes, personality traits that we don't even know about. Then (this is the unbelievable part) years later the aliens scan the whole earth and find people that would connect with the abductee. They can fly over any city and find one individual quickly that would meet all those traits, like a soul mate. Back to the lifeforms and to where research has led me minus experience. The aliens assumingly came to the US in 1890 and started working (while being invisible) on their underground bases and abducting people. By 1961 during the Betty and Barney Hill abduction they already had full grown hybrids doing abductions. Main researchers like Dr. David Jacobs have discovered that hybrids were doing abductions in the 90s. Here are two pictures to illustrate that aliens knew how to create walking grown lifeforms in 1961, which probably means there were 'ancient aliens' because they knew what there were doing. The true grey alien was thought to be 'supervising' the hybrids, a less talked about aspect of the case.

Vallee proposes there is a genuine UFO phenomena partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time.

I can agree with most of that. I don't know if the consciousness is human or not though, or maybe if it's some other consciousness AND human, or if consciousness is all the same, no matter whose it is?

Anyway, this kind of story-

Originally posted by blocula
In one case,a woman awoke in bed to see a helicopter over her house as if the intervening ceiling and roof had disappeared.She also saw 2 unusual humanoid beings at the foot of the bed.Fortunately 2 friends were able to witness this scene,they saw a blue sphere of light around her,as she did,with brighter lights shooting through it, but they heard no helicopter and saw no beings.The blue light apparently created a virtual-reality scenario...www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

A virtual reality scenario?...Or perhaps...as i mentioned above...maybe only her soul was taken somewhere

- i.e. encounters of the most unbelievable kind, are really the ones that are happening. I don't know about that one in particular but I've talked to people who have had similar experiences, so crazy and off the wall and absurd you think you're either being taken for a ride by crazies or you've entered the twilight zone.

But you end up believing them, because you can smell the fear and awe, and see that the person telling you their story believe 100% that it actually happened to them. There is no doubt in my mind that "there is a genuine UFO phenomena partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time."

Good thread. I like Mr Vallee.

Walter B. Gibson,writer of the pulp series The Shadow,thought about his character The Shadow so much,that his projected thoughts would actually create a hologram image of The Shadow,who would lurk in his apartment. When he had guests over,his guests were frightened by a man dressed all in black,with fedora hat and red scarf covering his face.They were describing the fictional character The Shadow.The Shadow was Walter B. Gibson's poltergeist,an entity projected from his mind....

Like ufos,flying saucers and aliens?

Or are ufos,flying saucers and aliens 3-dimensional holograms with animated mass projected into our reality from another dimension by superior beings?

Or just the members of class 2 and 3 civilizations,we ourselves are not even 1 yet,some of whom created our terrarium world and who are the true dominant species of this planet we call earth?