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Jacques Vallee: Implications of UFO Phenomena - Thinking Allowed.

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posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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The Cryptoterrestrial hypothesis was suggested by the ufologist and futurologist Mac Tonnies.It intruduces the idea that the so called extraterrestrial intelligence does not originate from outerspace,but is living among us...

The true dominant species of earth that evolved into a superior intelligence long before humans arrived upon the evolutionary scene...

We are taught and told to think and act like we are the dominant species of earth,but are we really?
edit on 13-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
My biggest beef with Vallee is his implication that real UFOs/Aliens are intended to help "educate" us in some way by powerful unseen forces. Like training a dog to do a trick. And the trick is apparently to modify our consciousness so we can bring a kind of half-reality to these things, or maybe eventually full reality as we understand it.

We're not dogs, and we've proven to anyone who cares that if you give us the task of learning something and show us how we can benefit from it, we'll literally bend over backwards to do it and do it much faster than it would take to learn it passively. If the aliens don't know us well enough to understand this, then you have to wonder if they have our best interests in mind (literally).


That's the point, that there may be no "alien". That the alien is a construct of our own psyche which may or may not represent a cultural filter.

It's not about training us to do a trick - it may well be about evolution as a conscious mind perceives it. We, in fact, won't bend over backwards to learn anything.

For instance what lessons have we learned from war? To not kill others? To not exterminate scores of people because it's "duty" or "patriotic"? To not ultimately cause long term illness and abuse of both the land we fight on and the people who fight it?

No. We've learned how to be more effective killers. We spend billions a year on it.

What this phenomena may be doing is evolving us. You can't learn what you cannot comprehend in the most basic way, and you cannot know what you'll be like after evolution of that particular aspect is done. To evolve is to become something completely unlike what you were before (in one way or another). The caterpillar doesn't know it's going to be a butterfly. It just follows it's internal clock and instinct. When it comes out of a cocoon, it's unrecognizable to it's prior state.

The question is, what is it evolving us for? Into what? For who's benefit? And is it our own consciousness evolving ourselves? That's a whole other thread.


Jeff



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Some early psychical researchers such as Gustav Geley speculated that paranormal phenomena could be explained by the human mind materializing objects...

In 1975,John Keel published the Mothman Prophecies based on his investigation of reported alien creatures and ufos in West Virginia.He linked poltergeists and other paranormal events to the ufo sightings which he claimed were all occurring at the same...



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Theres also the Atmospheric Life Form Hypothesis...

The UFO researcher John Philip Bessor believed that UFOs originate from the atmosphere and are living organisms,sort of like sky jellyfish...

Zoe Wassilko Serecki,an Austrian noble woman wrote a number of articles in an occult magazine in which she concluded that UFOs were life forms in the atmosphere which feed on pure energy,creating bladder-like bodies for themselves out of colloidal silicones...

Early ufo writer Trevor James Constable believed that the UFO phenomenon was best explained by the presence of large amoeba like animals inhabiting Earth's atmosphere.Constable speculated that they spent most of their time in an invisible low density state.They exist in the fourth state of matter called plasma.He believed when they increased their density,the animals became visible.He thought they were carnivores and the mutilated animal carcasses and unexplained disappearances and abductions were evidence that they sometimes preyed on livestock and humans...

The more we find out,the more bizzare the whole situation becomes,but one things for sure,we are not alone...
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posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by blocula
The UFO researcher John Philip Bessor believed that UFOs originate from the atmosphere and are living organisms,sort of like sky jellyfish... [...]

That could possibly be reasoned from some of the sightings, but what about the sightings where people are abducted, taken aboard apparently solid objects, examined by or communicating with "creatures," and then let go?

I wonder about the high strangeness cases. Maybe some UFOs are simple jellyfish. But what about the ones that are just too complex and odd for that? What do they represent?



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
My biggest beef with Vallee is his implication that real UFOs/Aliens are intended to help "educate" us in some way by powerful unseen forces. Like training a dog to do a trick. And the trick is apparently to modify our consciousness so we can bring a kind of half-reality to these things, or maybe eventually full reality as we understand it...

...We're not dogs, and we've proven to anyone who cares that if you give us the task of learning something and show us how we can benefit from it,..

I agree his guesses in that respect are, most likely wrong...in a way. Especially in "Revelations" The main questions he surmises, are great questions. He certainly doesn't always interpret them in the same way I would. But he does validate the very real institution of govt. disinfo and apparent manipulation by the myth-makers of today.

However, and most importantly, he does seem to grasp the illogical and high-strangeness features extant in the more mundane ETH scenarios and asks questions that beg very different answers and hypotheses that seem to negate the legitimacy of the ETH, as it is today, and support some form of the IDH.

The "education" aspect is just one of his "guesses" however, and is in no way indicative of his basic assertions about the phenomena.

If you haven't read him lately, or ever, please do. He's not your average ufologist....scientifically or otherwise.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


These advanced atmospheric life forms might be the true dominant species of earth that evolved into a superior intelligence long before humans arrived upon the evolutionary scene and they are able to transform themselves at will and are able to manipulate and deceive our senses in ways that makes us think and see what they want us to think and see and if thats true,could our reality possibly get anymore strange and bizzare than that?
edit on 13-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 
Visualize the ocean and all its higher life forms,in the sky...

Then take away all the water and leave those higher life forms up there...

Now imagine all those higher life forms evolving up there for hundreds of millions of years,gaining intelligences far beyond our own...

And give them the ability to move in and out of our visible spectrum,the ability to transform themselves at will and the ability to manipulate our senses...

Thats the best example i can think of for someone to grasp the meaning of what these things might actually be...

And its absolutely mind bending and amazing to think and realize thats its a very possible reality that we are living within...
edit on 13-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
The question is, what is it evolving us for? Into what? For who's benefit? And is it our own consciousness evolving ourselves? That's a whole other thread.

After giving it a lot of thought over the years, I generally come back to the idea that the primary drive of life (matter/energy fashioned into living consciousness) is to absorb all of the matter/energy in the universe. That's what life does. It eats, procreates, and expands. This will ultimately lead to everything in the universe being incorporated into a living thing, and when that happens, the consciousness of it will be able to kind of "bootstrap" itself into existence in all times and dimensions. And it has already done this, in the future, which is why we're here. Perhaps this small, odd phenomenon is life -- DNA -- learning how to access and incorporate virtual states (imagination and shadow realities) into the entire universal matrix.

So is that evolution, something that grows and folds back in on itself? Progress and regress that met/meets/will meet in a singularity? I don't know.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Mac didn't really introduce that idea, it'd been around long before. (That's not a dig at him, he was a good guy and I considered him a friend) But that begs the question: where do they put their garbage? In other words when another species of the physical realm interacts with another, it cannot do so without leaving significant traces of it's presence. It just doesn't seem to fit this phenomena at all.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Thanks Gut, good to see ya too. Yeah the hypnosis garbage, what'er ya gonna do. Unfortunate that many still hang on the Hopkins/Jacobs meme, but it is to be expected I suppose. Poor research (as you know) ain't the half of it.

Jeff



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 




We're not dogs, and we've proven to anyone who cares that if you give us the task of learning something and show us how we can benefit from it, we'll literally bend over backwards to do it and do it much faster than it would take to learn it passively. If the aliens don't know us well enough to understand this, then you have to wonder if they have our best interests in mind (literally).


What have we proven? This isn't about IQ so much as intent IMO. Why teach a kid how to drive a car if you know he's been smoking mary jane and drinking secretly since he was 14 years old?

If it can be proven that our greenhouse emissions are changing the composition of our atmosphere to the point where we could endanger our existence, then what have we proven? That isn't intelligence to me. That's fear of change. That's a self imposed limitation that no aliens nor God has imposed on us. That is our collective choice.

What I don't understand about Vallee is why he assumes that it must be Xtradimensional or ET? Now he obviously seems bored with the idea of ET (which is odd to me) and has cornered himself into believing that the phenomenon must be an external Xtradimensional consciousness or the old Jung collective unconsciousness idea.

I think QM can accomodate an idea of a collective consciousness that we have gotten pinched off from through the course of our evolution. Sometimes we catch glimpses of it from NDEs, OBEs, Supernatural Visions, etc. Furthermore, these other beings could be 4th dimensional ETs making both Vallee and Stanton both right.

Nice thread btw Karl S&F



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76
What have we proven? This isn't about IQ so much as intent IMO. Why teach a kid how to drive a car if you know he's been smoking mary jane and drinking secretly since he was 14 years old?

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic. I'm not one of those people who have that weird self-hatred of their own species, or think that humankind is somehow inherently evil or immature to the point where an external power needs to isolate us or keep secrets from us as a form of parenting. We are who we are. Neither good nor evil, really. And I could also argue that if anything, teaching a wayward kid how to properly drive a car might be a better alternative than them sneaking off to learn on their own or having one of their low-life friends teach them. It could be one of those cases where "they're going to do it anyway." Might as well teach them the right way and the responsibility that goes along with it. Maybe it will help them mature or something.

That's why I keep coming back to the notion that the whole phenomenon is more natural than artificial. There's a pattern to it (or so says Vallee), but I don't think it's directed by anybody. It's waves, and plenty of waves are natural. We're in-between UFO flaps at the moment and things are dull as dirt. But that will probably change in a few years, as if the "strength of reality" varies with regularity for some unknown reason. It will be interesting to see what the next big trend is.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
But that begs the question: where do they put their garbage? In other words when another species of the physical realm interacts with another, it cannot do so without leaving significant traces of it's presence. It just doesn't seem to fit this phenomena at all.

True. Whether it's UFO Aliens or Bigfoot or ghosts or leprechauns, these things have the annoying tendency to take all their garbage with them when they vanish, except for a few marginal traces and memories. Not much to work with. Nothing we can explore and try to define with our manipulated EM fields.

But then again, maybe it works like timeline manipulation. You can say that time travel is impossible because if it were, then we'd have to run into a time traveler once in a while, and we'd notice the effect of any change they made. But that's not necessarily true. Once you make a change in the reality of the past, it changes the reality of the present. The only evidence we'd be left with, perhaps, is that funny feeling of deja vu, or that sense that you were sure that a particular celebrity had already died.

So maybe they do leave "garbage," but that garbage is expressed as something that didn't previously exist in our reality now does, and the effect of its existence stretches forward and backward in time so we can't perceive it. Something was not here, but then it was, then it has always been here.

Hey, maybe that's why the universe is expanding. Because we keep thinking more crap into existence and the universe has to expand to make room.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by blocula
Walter B. Gibson,writer of the pulp series The Shadow,thought about his character The Shadow so much,that his projected thoughts would actually create a hologram image of The Shadow,who would lurk in his apartment. When he had guests over,his guests were frightened by a man dressed all in black,with fedora hat and red sc]


You probably know this but just in case:

Tulpa wiki



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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We must include amongst our analysis of aliens and ufo's,the strange and compelling fact that during the middle ages people were visited and abducted by beings such as faries,elves,pixies,gnomes and leprechauns ect,ect who took them to surrealistic fairy lands where the abductees experienced missing time and dimensional shifts...

Just like people living in the modern era report visitations and abductions by beings we call greys, nordics, reptilians and insectoids ect,ect,abductees who also now still experience missing time and dimensional shifts during these encounters...

People of the middle ages described their babies being taken in the night and replaced with changelings,during visitations by faries and other such bizzare entities...

In a very similar way that people of today report again and again of nightly visitations,of embryos being taken from their bodies during abductions,of alien hybrids resulting from blending alien and human dna...

Fairy rings surrounding fairy hills that people saw long ago,the outside of which were only a few feet across,but once taken within,the once seemingly small sized hills inexplicably expanded to many hundreds of feet across...

Just like flying saucers that have been reported many times as being around 30ft across when seen from the outside,but from within were a hundred feet across and more...

Were those fairy hills actually flying saucers that appeared to the witnesses masking their true identity within a guise more suited to fit the era they were living in?

And was fairy land actually the interior of alien spaceships masking their true identity within a guise more suited to fit the era they were living in?

I think we were are dealing with the same bizzare phenomena then as we are now...

Are flying saucers then and now actually...Portable Dimensions?
edit on 13-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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I love Jacques Vallee's books because he looks at the phenomena using his whole brain. Meaning he does not shy away, or worse, make fun of, the spiritual/sociological aspect of the UFO phenomena and he also uses much statistics and sound science to look into reports. Right brain/left brain. Other researchers in the 1970's such as John Keel and Ivan T. Sanderson have that same quality, and any one who is a fan of Vallee owes it to themselves to check out the books by those authors. I just watched this clip about Micheal Persinger and was reminded of a quote in Vallee's book "Dimensions" pg. "Some experiments with microwaves suggest that it is becoming technically feasible for sensory impressions to be projected into people's minds at a distance. Is this part of the technology that is involved in the UFO phenomenon? Here again we must ask: are we dealing with a technology that systematically confuses the witnesses? If so, it must be possible to duplicate it. If certain areas of the human brain can be remotely stimulated, then it is not impossible to think of broadcasts literally saturating large territories with a flood of symbols. Such a technology could be an important factor in the confrontation with advanced psychotronic devices."

From "Messengers of Deception" pg 162 " But suppose somebody had obtained a device by the end of the war, which perhpas wasn't a very effective weapon. Perhaps it couldn't fly very effectively, could't carry guns or bombs, but had other properties. For instance, it could emit radiation that caused paralysis and hallucinations as it flew over an area, so that witnesses exposed to it would think they saw the phantasm of their own imagination. Did somebody test that kind of a device in Sweden in 1946, and in the States in 1947, and find it to be ineffective as a flying machine, but very useful as a means of propaganda? Has such a group already understood what UFOS were, and are they confusing the issue by simulating UFO waves? Or is the entire phenomenon under their control?" In Messengers of Deception and Revelations he goes into great detail concerning how the idea of UFOS and E.T. can be used by tptb for social control by inducing fear in the population, but he is always careful to say that he does not believe that this is the whole story. It is interesting to see how his ideas changed throughout the years. From "Passport to Magonia" which dealt with the connection between modern day "ufo/et" sightings and ancient accounts of contacts with fairies and other "mythological" creatures, to his "Dimensions/Transformation/Revelations" series in which he, in my opinion, touches on all of the possibilities of the phenomena in very well researched and written books. I think it is amazing that the man went to Brazil to research and talk to people that were saying they were attacked by ufos! What other scientist of the last century would do something like that? I like this quote from William Bramleys book "The Gods of Eden" pg. 420 "As the evidence has shown, major military and intelligence organizations have taken over doing to human populations precisely what UFOs and some "Ascended Masters" reportedly did earlier: they have spread dangerous germs and have bombarded human populations with behaviour-altering electronic radiation."


Also I think Jacques Vallee is an alien..........







posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 
There might be different timelines of reality,different dimensions of existence and so if i went back in time and killed my father before he conceived me,i would never be born "in that time line" but when i returned to the timeline that i left,everything would be the same,thats what i think would happen.So the grandfather paradox becomes meaningless...



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


You mentioned the primary drive of life...

I'll try to explain what i think the primary drive of life and reality actually is...

And now for a few moments,lets enter within the psychological and technological realms of class-2 and class-3 civilizations...

A black hole's entropy is contained on its surface.A black hole's information is contained at its central singularity.BH Information + BH Entropy = 0...

It is known that there is a singularity at the centre of a black hole and so a black hole is an informational phenomenon.Therefore a black hole's central singularity is an informational singularity....

Our universe is a black hole,its informational centre is the Earth's biosphere,meaning life...

The universe is expanding with an exponential acceleration.The exponentially increasing area of the universe's horizon determines the organisation of living organisms and thus causes the exponentially accelerating evolution of life towards the emegence of the informational singularity,the human brain...

When the human brain becomes aware of the connection between itself and the rate of the cosmological expansion,the latter becomes infinitely fast and the Big Rip follows...

The universe is known to be expanding with exponential acceleration.But the recession speed of the distant galaxies is determined based on the light which has reached the Earth after many billions of years of propagation...

So the Universe's periphery's recession speed we observe is only apparent,not actual.It is the recession speed which existed billions of years ago.The actual current speed of the Universe's expansion must be unbelievably higher...

We shall soon see a wall of darkness,a wave of vacuum phase transition,approaching the Earth from the periphery of the universe...

Brahma breathes in and breathes out,inhales and exhales and with each inward and outward breath,everything begins and ends again and eventually begins and ends again and again and again and again...

Think about those mindbending,conscious expanding enigmas and paradoxes while your drifting off into the mysterious dimensions of sleep,within the alternate realities of dreams...
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posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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I think that flying saucers and alien entities are around us all the time and when they pass into our visible spectrum,tune into our wavelength,we are able to see them...

And when they pass out of our visible spectrum,beyond our electromagnetic frequency,they become invisible to us again...

If so,are they seen only when they want to be seen?

Or is it by the syncronicity of accidental circumstances in nature that causes them to become temporarily visible?

Do only psychic people see them,those with their inner eye open?

Or are they actually three dimensional holograms with animated mass projected into our reality by super intelligent beings from an alternate reality,or from another dimension,or from another planet in another galaxy?
edit on 13-2-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)






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