New Labour, New Lies

Source Daily Mail 16/9/04 (I'm just waiting for the insults )

Nearly 8 million people of working age - the highest number ever - are out of work and not looking for a job. They include 2.7 million incapacity benefit claimants and more than 1 million young people under 25 who are neither studying nor working

Shock horror , lies from the Party that says that unemployed numbers are down

Minister's are also admitting that disability payout for the sick and disabled is abused.

By claiming they are disabled by bad back or stress, people can receieve a basic rate of �74.15 a week after a year, instead of the �55.65 paid by Jobseekers Allowance. The number of people collecting incapacity benefit has trebled in 25 years.

shock horror... ... more abuse of our soft system. Those who claim disability benefits when they have no right to them are ruining the reputation of those who really need those benefits. Or maybe we as a nation have suddenly become softer and view ourself as disabled if we have a little bit of stress.

I'm disgusted at the way our once great country is heading!!!

Good post
I dont believe what Labour says anymore and i certainly dont trust them at all. Labour is based on spin and lies, no wonder no one trusts them

I'm still learning about U.K. politics (I live in the U.S. ) What's the other major party's name? And which party is the conservative one, and which one is the liberal one?

I'm sorry 8 million people are not working and not even LOOKING for a job? Is this true?

I would tend to doubt the figures the Daily Mail is a Tory rag.

The main 3 UK Political Parties:

Labour - (Champagne Socialists) - Tony Blair
Conservative - (Right Wing Facists) - Michael Howard
Liberal Democrats - (Trying hard not to upset anyone) - Charles Kennedy

Basically, the same as the states but without the pomp and pagentry.

Originally posted by Koka
I would tend to doubt the figures the Daily Mail is a Tory rag.

The main 3 UK Political Parties:

Labour - (Champagne Socialists) - Tony Blair
Conservative - (Right Wing Facists) - Michael Howard
Liberal Democrats - (Trying hard not to upset anyone) - Charles Kennedy

Basically, the same as the states but without the pomp and pagentry.

I knew you'd say something about the Daily Mail - which paper do you read?????

Labour - (Politically Correct Socialists) - Centre Left Wing
Conservatives - (Politically Confused, although they are improving very slowly) - Centre Right
Liberal Democrats - (Bunch of anti-British, pro-EU nutters) - Left Wing



[edit on 17-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

Whatever the person next to me is reading. Failing that, the letters and horoscope in The Metro.

Im not bashing sminky here but where is he and hows he gonna bail Labour out of this?

Nothing new really is it.

Why should I 'bail' anyone out of this?

It's a Daily Mail story, a fairy tale of deliberate distortion, half truth and a refusal to see how we got where we are today for the small band of true blue believers.

.....and frankly too tedious to bother with.

I suggest people who believe this kind of cobblers should get out more.
Go talk to people who lived through what mass unemployement was really like instead of sucking up this ludicrous 'it's worse under Labour' fantasy people like the Daily Mail peddle for the 'all-too-willing'.

Okay, one and for all!!! Mass un-employment was delt with!!! Stop argueing the past we are now under new labour/Bush control our troops are fighting and dieing for no reason and your response is simply some stuff about our army not being able to choose for themselfs anarchy and i think i picked out a few other words as well.

I beg to move the motion standing on the order paper in my name and those of my Right Honourable friends.

Right honourable my ass.


I have had enough of his spounting crap about pointless crap about pointless crap this must end before the vast majority of the U.K emigrateing to excape this guys crap spouting.

Originally posted by shorty
Okay, one and for all!!! Mass un-employment was delt with!!! Stop argueing the past we are now under new labour/Bush control our troops are fighting and dieing for no reason and your response is simply some stuff about our army not being able to choose for themselfs anarchy and i think i picked out a few other words as well.

- shorty you sound very confused and agitated.

Mass unemplyment, troops dying and Bush in control of the UK!?

Maybe a few deep breaths would help?

I have had enough of his spounting crap about pointless crap about pointless crap this must end before the vast majority of the U.K emigrateing to excape this guys crap spouting.

- You see?

This is just senseless jibberish.

The vast majority aren't going anywhere.....but just to cheer you further, remember, that'll be the amount by which these evil satanic forces of the Labour party trounce your beloved tories come election day; a vast majority!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But ok, just because it amuses me mildly......

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Source Daily Mail 16/9/04 (I'm just waiting for the insults )

- You see? Even UK Wizard understands the nature of the single source he is quoting from.

I mean, everybody but everybody knows where the Daily Mail is always coming from, right?

Nearly 8 million people of working age - the highest number ever - are out of work and not looking for a job. They include 2.7 million incapacity benefit claimants and more than 1 million young people under 25 who are neither studying nor working

- Wow, sounds a lot right?

But, where are the specifics, where is the detailed reference telling us whether this includes mothers at home with kids, the very early and well off retired, the genuinely disabled and if so how many?

You see this high sounding figure could be because many more people are either at home having kids or more are well off enough to retire very early.

They (as people of working age and not looking for a job) must for part of these "shock horror"! figures too mustn't they?

The 1 million people under 25, what are they doing?
The Daily Mail can't say, they could be working but just not paying tax (yet).....but no doubt the Daily Mail will shortly blame this Labour gov for inventing the 'black market' economy!

But then they weren't interested in the details, all they were after was a superficially terrible sounding 8million (cos it sounds so much worse than the 4.5 - 5million that was the folk-lore of the true figure of unemployment under the worst of the tories).

.....and those who give this no thought whatsoever just lap it up as they knew they would. This is pure party political propaganda not 'news'.

Shock horror , lies from the Party that says that unemployed numbers are down

- What 'Labour party' lies? No explaination given so we can't really comment on this phrase.

Minister's are also admitting that disability payout for the sick and disabled is abused.

- As if this is news to anyone.
Don't you know?
It has been this way for decades.

Especially as it was a matter of policy under the tory gov to shove people off of the unemployment register and onto the long-term sick lists (especially older men and women). Older people were actually being advised by their job centres to go onto the sick!

This created the culture where doctors in a region hit by mass unemployment (especially in regions with single large industries and a work force unlikely to find employment again) were encouraged to sign people off onto the 'sick list'.

Go look it up if you need proof. It's a very well known part of the tale.

By claiming they are disabled by bad back or stress, people can receieve a basic rate of �74.15 a week after a year, instead of the �55.65 paid by Jobseekers Allowance. The number of people collecting incapacity benefit has trebled in 25 years.

- Wow �74 instead of �55 (for an over 25 adult) the high life, eh?

Anyhoo, that's what they claim except for anyone who actually knows anything about the benefits system it is now much tougher to qualify now as even if ones' own Dr agrees to sign 'someone off' for any length of time that person will - within a matter of weeks - be examined by Dr's working for the state now and they are nothing like an 'easy touch'.

('course the Daily Mail is guaranteed not to run stories about genuine disabled people who are disqualified from their entitlement by these harsh conditions are they, hmm?)

shock horror... ... more abuse of our soft system. Those who claim disability benefits when they have no right to them are ruining the reputation of those who really need those benefits.

- Well there's some truth in that but let's be honest there is a certain attitude that couldn't really care less about the reputation of the disabled and see them all as a drain on resources, right?

Or maybe we as a nation have suddenly become softer and view ourself as disabled if we have a little bit of stress.

- I don't know, it sounds like you have never met someone genuinely disabled due to unbearable stress.

I'm disgusted at the way our once great country is heading!!!

- I suggest such sweeping statements are highly inappropriate in this area and I would also suggest that the Daily Mails idea of which way "our once great country" is headed might not actually be the direction we are headed in at all .

You don't know the detail of the individual cases and such sweeping attitudes just hit out at all, genuine or not.

Sminkey,

Since you can't be bothered to actually go and have a look at the statistics yourself, here they are:

2.3 million people looking after the family and home

2.2 million people on long term sick

1.7 million people studying

1 million people under 25 neither working or studying

590,000 people retiring

200,000 short term sick

Total: 8 million

Now, consider the fact that anyone in a government sponsored training scheme is considered 'employed'.

Consider the fact that the 2.3 million 'looking after the home' includes people who say they do not want a job. Not just mothers looking after children, everyone, young single men included who does not want a job is put into this category.

Consider the fact that of the 2.2 million on long term sick, those who want a job but have given up looking are included.

How do your figures look now?


Predicted comebacks:

'look at unemployment under the tories'
'the Daily Mail/Torygraph/any other paper without it's head up TBs *cough* is just Tory propaganda'
'Those figures are wrong' (they are from the ONS)


[edit on 8-12-2004 by Chris McGee]

Originally posted by Chris McGee
Sminkey,

Since you can't be bothered to actually go and have a look at the statistics yourself, here they are:

- It was not a case of not bothering it was a case of no reference provided to check them out.

2.3 million people looking after the family and home

2.2 million people on long term sick

1.7 million people studying

1 million people under 25 neither working or studying

590,000 people retiring

200,000 short term sick

Total: 8 million


Consider the fact that the 2.3 million 'looking after the home' includes people who say they do not want a job. Not just mothers looking after children, everyone, young single men included who does not want a job is put into this category.

Consider the fact that of the 2.2 million on long term sick, those who want a job but have given up looking are included.

How do your figures look now?

- .....and what?

More people studying than ever before....is that meant to be bad?

2.2million long term sick and 0.2million short term sick is a big improvement over previous (tory) years.
Sorry if you find that a poor answer but nevertheless it is.

You want me to complain about an improving situation......or to pretend that the 'direction we are heading in is the opposite of what it is?!

As for the numbers of people retired, at home, studying or under 25 and neither working nor studying? What?

These figures tell us nothing other than they are assumed to be economically inactive...... and the Daily Mail spin on this is that they have decided this must be bad.

No doubt they be giving people a comparison (adjusted for population growth) with the last few decades so people can really make an informed judgement of what these figures represent......especially in terms of where we're heading.....yeah right !

Now, consider the fact that anyone in a government sponsored training scheme is considered 'employed'.

- No point bitching and crying over this gov using rules 'guess who' ( ) brought in long ago, is there, hmmm?

Predicted comebacks:

'look at unemployment under the tories'
'the Daily Mail/Torygraph/any other paper without it's head up TBs *cough* is just Tory propaganda'

- All the above are true whether you like it or not Chris......

.....and since when was taking a non-tory propagandists view anything to do with having ones' head anywhere near TB's *cough* or not.....

....have you really gotten that juvenile and blinkered in your politics?!

'Those figures are wrong' (they are from the ONS)

- I have made no such claim, whether they truely represent what the Dialy Mail claims or not is entirely another matter.

By the way; any sign of any actual "Labour lies" here...... at all, hmm?

[edit on 8-12-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Let me ask you this sminkeypink is it not true that all partys lie or at least withold truth at some point? In which case do you think that in the years Labour have been in they have never lied? What about the Iraq war docs.

Your friendly nabourhood troll

Here's a Labour lie:

I would just point out to the hon. Lady that we returned the donation

5 minutes later (literally)

We have said that we will give the money back.
[Interruption.] We have already made arrangements to do so. [Hon. Members: "When?"] We have already made arrangements to do so, and it will be done in the next few days.

www.labour-watch.com...

The text was taken from Hansard, or is that Tory propaganda aswell?

Originally posted by Chris McGee
The text was taken from Hansard, or is that Tory propaganda aswell?

In sminkeypinkey's eye everything is Tory propaganda.

You see? Even UK Wizard understands the nature of the single source he is quoting from.

The reason i said that was because many people are childish in their views of the Daily Mail, it writes about traditional British values and the true reason behind the problems facing modern Britiain - Labour.

Originally posted by UK Wizard


In sminkeypinkey's eye everything is Tory propaganda.

Amen to that brother!!!

Originally posted by Chris McGee
Here's a Labour lie:

I would just point out to the hon. Lady that we returned the donation

5 minutes later (literally)

We have said that we will give the money back.
[Interruption.] We have already made arrangements to do so. [Hon. Members: "When?"] We have already made arrangements to do so, and it will be done in the next few days.

www.labour-watch.com...

The text was taken from Hansard, or is that Tory propaganda aswell?

- So, in other words, although the money was in the process of being returned the speaker wasn't aware it hadn't actually been returned at that point when she was speaking?

Cor, what a whopper.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
In sminkeypinkey's eye everything is Tory propaganda.

- Hardly.

Let's not be silly about this Wizard.
Most of the UK press is sympathetic to tory attitudes and instincts and they have been like that for decades; as most people are fully aware.

The reason i said that was because many people are childish in their views of the Daily Mail, it writes about traditional British values and the true reason behind the problems facing modern Britiain - Labour.

- Ha! Very funny.

The Daily Mail speaks to a tory constituency that believes in pathetic rubbish like 'demon eyes'.

Their idea of 'traditional British values' revolve around a collection of up-tight middle-class petit bourgeois fantasies about a 'golden age' that never was for most and for whom the British nation (as most of us actually are) are anethma.

As for whether any of our political parties ever lie, at all?

Of course they do, they all do.

What kind of naive fool thinks otherwise?

It's called politics which involves presenting your selves and party in the best light possible. That can involve stretching the truth or (as a famour person said on behalf of the famous tory Mrs T 'being "economical" with the truth'.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should just grow up a tad.



[edit on 8-12-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Wait a minute i could have sworn you have said that 1264 times before just worded a bit differantly.

No doubt you find yourself to be staggeringly hilarious and a razor-sharp wit shorty, in your own mind.

(.....and the facts are the facts and the truth remains the truth no matter how often it or they are told. )

By the way, these barely 4 - 20 word replies......what was that about spam and trolling?



[edit on 8-12-2004 by sminkeypinkey]