Unknown person says he has packaged samples of chemtrail materials

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posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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So where the cluck is a chemtrail spray when you need one?
7 hours of hauling water wetting down as much as we can,
packed if they show up to evacuate us, most of our neighbors have released their animals.
Our animals are drawing straws see if they can't stop it (fire) which ones go in the truck.
Chemtrails when you really need them , No such luck.

azstarnet.com...
edit on 11-2-2012 by Gmoneycricket because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 


Sorry to hear you and your neighbors are being affected by the fire.

I hope everyone stays safe and no one loses their animals, home or property.

Peace



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
So where the cluck is a chemtrail spray when you need one?
7 hours of hauling water wetting down as much as we can,
packed if they show up to evacuate us, most of our neighbors have released their animals.
Our animals are drawing straws see if they can't stop it (fire) which ones go in the truck.
Chemtrails when you really need them , No such luck.

azstarnet.com...
edit on 11-2-2012 by Gmoneycricket because: (no reason given)


Um... how exactly does "chemical spraying" put out a fire??
It's not cloud seeding...

I'm sorry you are in danger (been there and have had to evacuate) but neither situation is a joke.
edit on 11-2-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


I agree that neither situation is a joke.

But, I do think he was being sarcastic and meant these kind of chemical spray planes.




Thanks for recommending this video below. I found it on youtube, still watching and it's very interesting



edit on 12-2-2012 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 
It probably wouldn't hurt to put the OP into context and to compare the subject claims to the reality of modern contrail science and documented analyses of contrail contents, formation and persistence.
(I've done this before when Matty was compelled to serially post junk and snippets as "proof" of imagined threats and motivations.)

First, the quoted passage was only part of a longer anonymous rant posted in response to criticism of the recent follow-up to the famously debunked WITWATS video.

Wow! Are You a paid government employee? Or simply an peron who is blinded. 24yrs in this mans military, I know what they are doing. Operation Clover leaf is real! Not fantasy!! I have sample after sample of chemtrail material in My possession, We did not wait for it to fall, We gathered it airborne, not terrestrially as others have done. I have seen from 50lb sacks to sealed 250lb pressurized cylinders with multiple components involved. On the darpa sorties, "OTHER" material is added and those flights are highly classified and are generally completed at night so as to prevent irradiation (solar) from sterilizing the compounds, since it's whole purpose is inhalation by the populace. You have no clue what Your talking about! Or... You are indeed a government employee or contractor...NWO??!! Contrails do not release toxins & metals into the atmosphere and eventually becoming part of the lower atmosphere and the air humans breath. Either way...the jig is up, the movement has gained tremendous momentum and the truth (backed by science) is being purveyed towards the masses, which is eliciting a response in turn.

metabunk.org...

Second, a mere claim to be in possession of "sample after sample" amounts to no evidence without proper documentation and analyses of said "samples." Anyone who jumps to the conclusion that this presents more "proof" of the "chemtrail" fables is engaged in more wishful thinking of the sort that makes up the vast majority of prior offers of "proof" in this regard.

Third, the subject of the rant, the video follw-up entitled "the Great Culling," reveals that the "chemtrail" faithful and their major evangelists have now settled upon the "population reduction" scenario as the rationale behind "chemtrails." The whole story, though, is that "chemtrails" are only one facet of a global scheme to lace the air, food and vaccines with the seeds of mankind's destruction.

How sad.

What Matty, the evangelists and the merely credulous ignore or forget is that contrails have been studied and sampled from the ground, air and satellites for more than 40 years!

The various, non-governmental studies and programs are readily available for review and consideration with a minimum of effort.

These programs and studies have gone by such acronyms and names as Subsonic Aircraft Contrail and Cloud Effects Special Study (SUCCESS), First International Satellite Cloud Climatology Program Region Experiment (FIRE) Cirrus Intensive Field Observations (IFOs) II, Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM), MOZAIC, AIRS, CRYSTAL-FACE, and PARTEMIS.

As in the past, I dare the "chemtrail" faithful to look at any or all of these and then stand by their idiocracy with a straight face. Needless to say, it has not happened yet.

These studies and analyses are not static. They continue apace.

Unlike the WITWATS and "Culling" money-driven fearmongering, all of these studies have been peer-reviewed and published in leading independent, scientific, non-governmental scientific journals, publications and literature.

Anyone intersted in serious analysis and stepping-stones to further inquiry should take a quick look at two of these in particluar, which have served as compendia of sorts for more in-depth study:

In situ observations of contrail microphysics and implications for their radiative impact

Contr ails and Contrail-Specific Microphysics

Tthis last studyincludes over 10 pages of citations and references as well as an index of contrail-specific analyses.

Of course, the "chemtrail" indoctrinated/faithful will make absolutely no effort to consider science and fact when they have propaganda as an antdote to reason.

s&f
deny ignorance
jw







edit on 12-2-2012 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


I think you may wish to re-read the Wiki articles....


(you should note that the bottom of this Wiki page mentions Operation LAC's use of this toxic bacteria).


"Operation LAC" was underway in 1957-1958.....and is very similar to a test conducted in the UK (and has been mentioned before, in this Forum). With zinc cadmium.

The specific Wiki article about the "red" bacteria says that it was disperse ONCE, in 1950....released by BALLOONS! Not airplanes.


IF you understand the methodology (and mindset) back then......these tests were using what at the time were thought to be benign materials, and the whole reason was to attempt to learn about distribution patterns, as it was the 'COLD WAR', and the fear was that the USSR might wish to attack with airborne pathogens......of course, this never happened, did it.....?



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


I think you may wish to re-read the Wiki articles....


No I don't wish to. You have misunderstood me if you think I've missed the points you made.
I will address those one by one since evidently you need your hand held through this.

You have totally ignored the book! Why is that? Is it just too much for you to "debunk"??


Originally posted by ProudBird
(you should note that the bottom of this Wiki page mentions Operation LAC's use of this toxic bacteria).

"Operation LAC" was underway in 1957-1958.....and is very similar to a test conducted in the UK (and has been mentioned before, in this Forum). With zinc cadmium.

The specific Wiki article about the "red" bacteria says that it was disperse ONCE, in 1950....released by BALLOONS! Not airplanes.


So what? If you thought I said they released Serratia from an airplane you misunderstood me. It was released from a balloon IN THE AIRSPACE above San Francisco!

And WHAT is your problem? Why are you being so dense about this? It's gone beyond skeptical debunking and has turned into a vendetta that you have about this. YOU have something to prove and you're on a war-path about it.

I'm just bringing the PROOF that our gov't & military have been experimenting on unsuspecting people for almost 100 years without their knowledge.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by ProudBird
these tests were using what at the time were thought to be benign materials,


NOT ALWAYS!
Huh.. really? You really think this?


Originally posted by ProudBird
IF you understand the methodology (and mindset) back then......
the whole reason was to attempt to learn about distribution patterns, as it was the 'COLD WAR', and the fear was that the USSR might wish to attack with airborne pathogens......of course, this never happened, did it.....?


With these types of things in general, I don't care about the time or context or whatever *manufactured* threat we're facing. It doesn't justify the means.
If you wish to say that there have been justifications for every single experiment they've done on us, you're going to have a really hard time making that argument.

The first quote from the back cover of the Germ Warfare book (Clouds of Secrecy) makes the point that we are arguably in just as much jeopardy and threat from our own gov't (maybe more so) than we are from our enemies.

Your side frequently says that dispersement patterns have never been studied.
Operation LAC shows they studied aerial spray dispersement. PERIOD!!
You have no right or qualification to hyper-simplify the reasoning behind these or other tests and try to force everyone else to accept TPTB's word at face value..

Do you believe everything the gov't & media tell you?

What reasoning do you have to feel justified in trying to belittle people for not trusting a gov't and military who have always done potentially harmful things to unsuspecting citizens and lied about it until forced to confess (as was the case w/ the bacteria balloon-burst spray)?

Man, you need to ask yourself why you're even here at this forum.
What is your purpose here?
It appears to be, to troll around pissing off anybody who questions official stories by ignoring their valid points and attacking their ankles with your deliberate and calculated misinterpretations (misrepresentations) of their points?
I'm beginning to think I should expect to be infuriated and exasperated by your posts.

Clouds of Secrecy lays out some of the facts that you absolutely cannot justify by saying it was threat assessment related. Sorry, anybody with 1/2 a brain can see that and it just makes you look like a shill.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Sorry, anybody with 1/2 a brain can see that and it just makes you look like a shill.


wow, you went right for the Shill comment. No foreplay, no cuddle time. You should learn to do a bit more strokin, and a bit less pokin.

Nobody deny's that chemtrails could exist, what they deny is that every line in the sky that lasts longer than 2 minutes is automatically a chemtrail. Science had a nasty way of making people who ignore it look like asses.
I not sayin, I'm just sayin.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297

First, the quoted passage was only part of a longer anonymous rant posted in response to criticism of the recent follow-up to the famously debunked WITWATS video.


Yeah but I was trying to get an OP that didn't have any overt slagging of anyone in it - I figured teh personal abuse would come soon enough, as usual, & there wasn't any great need to rub believers noses in the lack of evidence.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Sorry, anybody with 1/2 a brain can see that and it just makes you look like a shill.


wow, you went right for the Shill comment. No foreplay, no cuddle time. You should learn to do a bit more strokin, and a bit less pokin.

Nobody deny's that chemtrails could exist, what they deny is that every line in the sky that lasts longer than 2 minutes is automatically a chemtrail. Science had a nasty way of making people who ignore it look like asses.
I not sayin, I'm just sayin.


I'm not one of the people trying to ignore science and saying that naturally-occurring contrails cannot linger for hours, or spread out and become a sky full of haze. I understand that can happen naturally. So cut me some slack for at least not being one of the ostriches.

Now. I have presented evidence that our government and military have willingly conducted tests on the unsuspecting civilian population at large.

What are you going to do to debunk the book "Clouds of Secrecy"?? I've asked you guys this numerous times and it keeps going unacknowledged, ignored and I challenge you to discount the evidence which this book presents, which supports the argument --->by Chemtrailers, that our government *would* do something like this secretly, without it being known or reported.

That is all I wish to debate at this point, because if we can't even come to agreements about something that is factually and historically un-challenged, then I don't see how you "debunkers" can be trusted to carry on an honest conversation. If you're discounting good evidence, that's just manipulation and trickery.

And that is where the "shill" comment came from. If someone will not acknowledge fact and continues belittling you, they are acting like one.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen

Now. I have presented evidence that our government and military have willingly conducted tests on the unsuspecting civilian population at large.


You aren't teh 1st to do so, and it's not a secret any more.....


What are you going to do to debunk the book "Clouds of Secrecy"?? I've asked you guys this numerous times and it keeps going unacknowledged, ignored and I challenge you to discount the evidence which this book presents, which supports the argument --->by Chemtrailers, that our government *would* do something like this secretly, without it being known or reported.


I haven't read the book and don't have it - but I understand it is an account of such testing since WW2, and as I say there is plenty of evidence around now showing that much to be true.

Now on to the idea that the Gov "would" do something like this again - perhaps they would.

But even that isn't really the chemtrail contention.

The contention is that they ARE doing something - not that htey WOULD.

Thinking that they WOULD do it is good reason to be suspicious - but it is not the same as evidence that they ARE doing it.


That is all I wish to debate at this point, because if we can't even come to agreements about something that is factually and historically un-challenged, then I don't see how you "debunkers" can be trusted to carry on an honest conversation. If you're discounting good evidence, that's just manipulation and trickery.


Evidence of past testing is NOT evidence of current testing.

By all means be suspicious - I don't think anyone has a problem with people being suspicious of the Govt - sure some are, some aren't, some are deeply suspicious, some only slightly - so opinions differ, but regardless of my opinion I won't argue with your right to hold a contrary one.

Now on to the evidence - where is it?

In all those past tests they were looking to spread something that was detectable, that had symptoms, that they could check the spread of, etc.

Tehr was al;sways something actually being spread. If we had the sort of information systems then as now & the easy access to chemical testing, then people would have been able to spot it easily.

So with all that easy testing, sharing of information - there still isn't 1 single piece of verifiable evidence that anything is happening NOW (or for the last 15 years) by way of "stuff" being pumped out of jet engines....other than normal exhaust products.

Ultimately that is all it is about - calling someone a shill, or a chemmie, or accusing them of taking a govt pay-check as some others often do - none of that makes a blind bit of difference to the total and complete lack of actual evidence.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Now you understand our side. Hell, you are actually on our side. Look around. See what the chemtrail believers are saying. THAT is why we try to educate those who are not too far gone.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
You aren't teh 1st to do so, and it's not a secret any more.....


Never said I was the 1st or that it was a secret (I found out about Op LAC from your post).
But nobody else has used this information the way I will. I'm gonna milk it for all it's worth.



Evidence of past testing is NOT evidence of current testing.


That's like saying "Hey I haven't heard anything about Area 51. That must mean it's closed."
What on Earth could give you 1 reason to believe they haven't taken this MO to the next level?? Seriously.
(* knock knock knock*) Uhh, Mc FLY!?!?! Anybody home?



By all means be suspicious - I don't think anyone has a problem with people being suspicious of the Govt - sure some are, some aren't, some are deeply suspicious, some only slightly - so opinions differ, but regardless of my opinion I won't argue with your right to hold a contrary one.


Nahh.. this isn't how it plays out. I don't have the right to be suspicious without you and your kind yelling "WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE!! Despite the fact that the kind of evidence you're talking about is a pipe dream at this point.

My point is the skeptical debunkers are always taking the patronizing/condescending/belittling tone of experts who know everything and who think that anybody who wastes their short life worrying about this crap is a chicken-little running around saying the sky is falling.
So I don't have permission to voice my suspicions if you call it paranoia and automatically categorize me as a ConTheorist, while rudely demanding evidence.

It's amazing how trusting you guys are, (of those who constantly betray it) considering the fact that you want so much evidence.



In all those past tests they were looking to spread something that was detectable, that had symptoms, that they could check the spread of, etc.


What makes you assume they cannot gather information about what they're doing now? You guys seem to make these assumptions often.

If they're doing "things"... then what do we know about what they're doing? Not much.
So you can agree that there are unknowable unknowns right? So why assume that they can't do something if you just don't know?? That's another example of where your side's POV seems disingenuous.

Some of the tests outlined were downright sadistic just for the sake of observing pain and tissue damage. Like the account of testing of Cantharide on children's abdomens, (causes blistering and loss of top layers of skin) just to test levels of irritation. Couldn't they have used animals or inmates or something.. why children? It shows the Sinister Dialectic involved. So what if they're observing results? Great! Good for them.


So with all that easy testing, sharing of information - there still isn't 1 single piece of verifiable evidence that anything is happening NOW (or for the last 15 years) by way of "stuff" being pumped out of jet engines....other than normal exhaust products.


You make it sound so easy... to get HARD evidence that would suffice for a skeptic. Be real buddy!

What it would take to come up with hard evidence is obviously more than anyone's budget here on this forum.

Do you think anybody knew what was happening to them before that book was written?
They were being tested on then and nobody was able to or would have EVER been able to prove it then.. and you and I are no more advanced now than we were then. You say these tests are widely available, but they still don't imperically link to the actual airplane, so skeptics will discount it. It's never court-worthy evidence.

And that's why it's a genius approach, because actually proving it is next to impossible.
Don't you think you'd be *banking* on that fact if you were going to perpetrate something like this?


Ultimately that is all it is about - calling someone a shill, or a chemmie...


Let's get this straight!!! For the 2nd time -:- I NEVER CALLED ANYBODY A SHILL!
What I SAID, was this:
if you dismissively ignore valid evidence then that makes you >>LOOK LIKE



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen


Originally posted by network dude
THAT is why we try to educate those who are not too far gone.


But what if it turns out that you're wrong??
Then your "education" is actually destructive "disinformation".
.. And then you basically sold out your fellow man, (and yourself, but then who cares about you?) while being totally convinced of something that was untrue.


If I am wrong about what? That contrails can persist? That when I look up in the sky and see 5 lines that were left by planes, I have a pretty good idea that they are persistent contrails, rather than some part of a secret government coverup?

You need to look around. Some of these people think that EVERY line in the sky is a chemtrail. They are going through life afraid of a frickin cloud. And the worst part of all, is they are teaching this stupidity to their children!

It's science not witchcraft. It's been proven and understood for decades. It's not up for debate in places where normal people dwell.

Could there be a secret program that sprays bad juice in the sky and looks just like a persistent contrail? Sure there could. But to go through life thinking there IS with nothing but the word of some nutjobs as proof is stupidity on the highest level. Maybe the punishment for those people is that they get to live pathetic lives being in fear of everything. I am just glad not to have to live that way.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Yes....so true, and so very, very sad:


And the worst part of all, is they are teaching this stupidity to their children!


This is the worst part.......however, I think we can give some kids the benefit of doubt for "sometimes" being a bit smarter than their parents!!



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