Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism, page 4

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reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:21 PM by thehoneycomb

reply to post by theubermensch

I prefer a libertarian socailism.

It doesn't matter what you prefer. I just showed you what you are going to get. All you are telling me is that you are too lazy to do research and read about the very thing that you are asking for.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:21 PM by fuchow

reply to post by AwakeinNM

Thats meaningless, why believe anything if that's the case...

I don't want to enter a debate, so i will just ask you to give the book a try, appealing to your intellectual honesty. You don't have to give me your opinion. I just happen to live in chile, one of the countries with the highest economic freedom index, where Milton Friedman himself helped to build our current laws, and what i see is not that good at all.

edit on 1-2-2012 by fuchow because: no link, typo

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:24 PM by theubermensch

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

Text Bottom line is that we have to legislate against greed so we can start moving forward as a society.

Who could argue with that?

That's right - legislate everything. Legislate against greed, against hate, against oil, against thinking this way or that way about this that or the other thing. Legislate morality or the lack of it. Legislate legislate.

Do you even hear yourself when you try to think?

Legislating does not eradicate. You cannot make human nature illegal.

Here's an example scenario to illustrate your point: Mayor Bloomberg is fed up with the rat epidemic in New York City. The citizens of NY are calling for action. So, mayor B signs legislation banning rats from New York City.

There! All the rats are magically gone, right?

Use your head.

edit on 1-2-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Maybe I just have more faith in humanity than you do. If you look at a society that has its roots in communism you see that they have a greater sense of community and social conscience. I know things wouldnt change overnight in places like America but I dont for a second feel that Americans are a greedy selfish people that cant strive for something that is more fair and sane.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:26 PM by superluminal11

The reason your mind is closing towards capitalism is because those that created it are shifting you away from it. They to know that it has alot of kinks in it and its causing more problems. Its not being replaced with socialism or communism either. Haves and have nots causes people to covet. They know this now. They were hoping most would come up to their level of how they designed it. Its causing anger and fear in the heart of all involved..The haves and have nots.

Only way to convince the hardliners that cannot change and let go of the old system without throwing a tantrum need to be shown that it no longer works and thats what is happening now. Do not be afraid.
No one is coming to reduce the populace or put you in a techno cage of control. Nor are you doomed forever to serve a very few corrupted at the top. Its all being phased out.

The Bible(mans limited understanding) may say if a man doesnt work he shouldnt eat but G-d isnt that way. Yes...the same one.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:26 PM by sligtlyskeptical

reply to post by AwakeinNM

The more we legislate against greed, the fewer regulations we will need in all. Almost all our current regulations are in place to prevent acts against society in the quest for profit. Eliminate that profit motive and most of the regulations will be thrown out because with no advantage to do the wrong thing, people will start doing the right thing. People that don't want to do the right thing are the ones who belong at the lowest tiers of society and in a properly run system thats where they will end up.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:28 PM by theubermensch

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by theubermensch

I prefer a libertarian socailism.

It doesn't matter what you prefer. I just showed you what you are going to get. All you are telling me is that you are too lazy to do research and read about the very thing that you are asking for.

I just adressed your points. What more do you want? I find these socailist groups are often a bit too liberal for my liking. The thread is not about some obscure try-hard socialist group. Its about considering socialism. Maybe you should do more reading if you think these guys wrote the book on socailism.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:28 PM by 1curious1

reply to post by petrus4

What I would suggest is to go spend a night in the waiting room of your local ER. Oh my, no wonder our society is failing so badly. There was not a NORMAL (as in, they even looked remotely like they had a job) person there other than a few elderly people who couldn't help it.

These people cannot be helped unless they are willing to do for themselves. How can you offer support, but not ENABLE them into continuing their demise. I don't have the answers. I can't even figure out how to convince my own family member she is an Enabler, of the worst kind. She thinks she's doing a loving, caring thing... But she's really just creating another useless blood sucker on our system.

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:45 PM by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by 1curious1
But she's really just creating another useless blood sucker on our system.

When you think like that, you are going to reach the conclusions you reach.

Perhaps instead of viewing them as "another useless blood sucker" you could start by viewing them as a human being. Im sorry that for you, a job is the measuring stick of NORMAL.

Originally posted by theubermensch
but I dont for a second feel that Americans are a greedy selfish people that cant strive for something that is more fair and sane.

Read the post before mine.
Americans arent a greedy selfish people? We Americans are not only known as greedy and selfish, but as the very HEIGHT of selfishness and greed. I cant think of a society on planet earth worse than our way of living. Again look at the guy posting before me...."those people" arent "normal" because they dont have a job ie they dont pay money into the machine....

We americans are so brainwashed and cant even realize it, we think that being brainwashed is "NORMAL"!

edit on 1-2-2012 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-2-2012 @ 11:56 PM by ANOK

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
The USA is crony capitalism bordering on crossing over to fascism
edit on 2/1/2012 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)

Hasn't capitalism always been cronyism? The same families have been capitalist owners for centuries.

It is fascism, government/state and corporations working together to control the economy using military might.
We are not being as effected by it as many other countries are, where our military is active, and in countries that are being heavily exploited.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:02 AM by theubermensch

reply to post by aching_knuckles

TextRead the post before mine. Americans arent a greedy selfish people? We Americans are not only known as greedy and selfish, but as the very HEIGHT of selfishness and greed. I cant think of a society on planet earth worse than our way of living. Again look at the guy posting before me...."those people" arent "normal" because they dont have a job ie they dont pay money into the machine.... We americans are so brainwashed and cant even realize it, we think that being brainwashed is "NORMAL"!

I agree. Amreica celebrates the seven deadly sins. I dont think its a lost cause though. I dont even think the neo-con parrots are as cold as they seem. They just think that they are being clever. I think things will need to getworse before people come together though. Which sucks.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:03 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by Paschar0
I'm of the belief of LIMITED capitalism, government, religion etc.

How do you have 'limited' capitalism?

How can you have limited government with a capitalist economy?

Capitalism is the system we have had since the end of feudalism. The private ownership of the means of production. If you want to limit that you would need more government. Less government would simply give the capitalists more room to increase their power and control. So you won't win either way with that method. You actually have more say as an individual over government than you do private entities. So which evil is better is up to you I guess. I'd rather have something else.

That is why libertarian socialism is the better choice imo.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:09 AM by duality90

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
in our culture today, the word "capitalism" gets thrown around where the real thing that's meant is Free market.

a lot of people think that capitalism means having the freedom of choice of who to buy from or sell to, but this is really what is Free Market/Free Trade.

capitalism is the use of power or resources in order to CAPITALIZE over someone else, in order to gain their power or resources.

it's pretty plain and simple.

a socialist society could work very well, IF AND ONLY IF the participants in power do not subdue to greed and megalomania. we COULD all work in a cooperative manner in order to feed, shelter, educate, and make mankind thrive....

But, currently this idea is squashed by human greed. as a whole, we need to get over our Egos and learn that other people are other-selves.

um. that is definitively not the meaning of capitalism or even the etymology of the word.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:13 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

It doesn't matter what you prefer. I just showed you what you are going to get. All you are telling me is that you are too lazy to do research and read about the very thing that you are asking for.

Oh and you have, the guy who said this?...

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

Anarchy and Socialism are very different things.
Anarchy is no government.
Socialism is more government.

I think it's you that needs to do some research mate.

Anarchism is stateless socialism, Mikhail Bakunin 1814-1876

Anarchism has always been a form of socialism. Socialism is an economic system not a political system, no government required. How can you have not seen that if you've done any research? Or is your research reading someone else's nonsense on teh web?

edit on 2/2/2012 by ANOK because: typo

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:16 AM by thehoneycomb

reply to post by ANOK

Yes well either way you are the one promoting a failed ideology.

I suggest if you happen to have a problem with the current state of things, you do a little looking into why things are the way they are.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:18 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by duality90

um. that is definitively not the meaning of capitalism or even the etymology of the word.

Actually he was pretty close.

Capitalism was defined by Marx as 'the private ownership of the means of production', and that is the definition mostly used now. The term was first used by the French socialist louis Blanc in his publication Organisation du travail [That link says 1848 but it was 1839 according to other sources. Marx used the term in 1848 in the Communist Manifesto].

Blanc defined the term as 'the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others'.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:20 AM by thehoneycomb

reply to post by ANOK

Yes, and because the government can not dictate supply and demand. That is why capitalism works and socialism and communism don't.

PS we don't live in a fascism, but thats where we are headed.

edit on 2-2-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:25 AM by ANOK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by ANOK

Yes well either way you are the one promoting a failed ideology.

That wasn't the argument. That is also your opinion that you have nothing to support.

Capitalism is a failed ideology...

The argument was you claiming socialism isn't what we're saying it is. Failed or not, (in your obvioulsy uninformed opinion), it is still what we say it is.

I suggest if you happen to have a problem with the current state of things, you do a little looking into why things are the way they are.

You don't think I have? I don't think someone who doesn't even understand what socialism is should be trusted to tell anyone anything, imo.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:28 AM by thehoneycomb

reply to post by ANOK

Well gee. You posted a picture of a car lot. Which failed and required a bailout because it was heavily unionized.

Then you posted a starving child in Africa. Which has nothing to do with capitalism, other then the fact that the child was probably starving because he lived in a communist country.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:30 AM by Jessica6

reply to post by petrus4

Have you read Oscar Wilde's Soul of Man Under Socialism?

Though he does not think socialism is the answer, he detested charity and argued that society should be structured in such a way that poverty is impossible. He too was appalled at the waste of human potential caused by poverty and the struggle to simply survive.

reply posted on 2-2-2012 @ 12:30 AM by CB328