Greece wipes out Citizens Debt!! Tells Bankers to suck it

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

Actually, that is precisely what IS happening, and that is why the banking system has been completely corrupted. The banksters are basically running up the credit card helping themselves and their friends and leaving us with the bill to the tune of trillions.

The "bill" of trillions is still in the same currency they generate out of thin air, right? So if the money becomes worthless, the "bill" too disappears. So what exactly is the complaint?

Look, if you want to give these criminals your hard earned money after what they have done to our economy, by all means do so.

This is what really cracks me up. Your "hard earned" money is what the bankers generated. You are not giving it to them, they generated it before your "hard work" could win you some of this money they generated from thin air.

You don't like the bankers and their methods? Simple. Stop using the money they generate because that is the only purpose of modern banking, to generate and manage money supply.

reply to post by Observor

This is what really cracks me up. Your "hard earned" money is what the bankers generated. You are not giving it to them, they generated it before your "hard work" could win you some of this money they generated from thin air.

I understand how the system works, and that is why I play the system, and I don't give it "back". The creators of this money should have never been given the authority to do so, but I know you disagree with that so I guess we will part company with that understanding.

You don't like the bankers and their methods? Simple. Stop using the money they generate because that is the only purpose of modern banking, to generate and manage money supply.

No, I will keep using it as long as that is the only one the local stores use. But, that is not the only purpose of modern banking. You are really naive to think so.

Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
reply to post by JimmyNeutron

 

There are NO ethics in an unethical system. Period.
If YOU have ethics, within an UNETHICAL system, YOU lose! Always, and forever.

I think your definition of loss is incomplete... All you really have is your character. Everything else is an illusion. Loss of character is loss of self.

The only answer is to not participate in that system.

If you cannot understand what I am saying, then copy and paste it, and read it later. Truth never goes away.

As I mentioned before, I totally understand where you are coming from... It is just a morally bereft position. In the words of my kids - "a promise is a promise and it must be kept"

So, we can agree to disagree.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by JimmyNeutron

 

actually, we bought the house we did because the payment was LOWER than the any rental unit suitable for our needs!!!!

maybe next time around they won't create a welfare system with a giant crack down the middle of the income spectrum that people fall into and then find themselves crap out of luck, no way to live!!!!

This is a case where oversimplification gets in the way of a discussion... I truly apologize if I made it sound like taking out a mortgage is living beyond your means. That is not what I meant at all. We all make economic trade-off decisions.Historically home ownership in the western world has been a better bet than throwing your money away on rent. It is a logical risk to take. BTW: I also have a mortgage - but the house is modest and my family lives within its means. I'm sure that is also your situation...

That is not to say we haven't had a few scares due to unemployment and health issues. This last year I went through all of the middle age male heart issue game and incurred bills in excess of $25,000. We had a very rough year financially and it was questionable some months whether we would be able to pay the mortgage.

We ate a lot of Kraft macaroni and cheese and other things I detest, but with sacrifice we were able to keep up.

Frankly, it would have been easier to walk away!

Anyway I hope I didn't offend...

reply to post by JimmyNeutron




Your viewpoint is admirable and I stand by my word to my friends and family, but I won't lose sleep over loss of word to some bank, their top brass earning millions...............

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by JimmyNeutron

 

Your viewpoint is admirable and I stand by my word to my friends and family, but I won't lose sleep over loss of word to some bank, their top brass earning millions...............

I understand and it's a personal choice...

reply to post by blueorder

Your viewpoint is admirable and I stand by my word to my friends and family, but I won't lose sleep over loss of word to some bank, their top brass earning millions...............

Exactly my point.
I will absolutely not lose any sleep over not paying a corrupt institution. In fact, I wish I could do more to destroy them.

I'm not sure if this had been discussed before...the consequences of such practice of wiping debt off.

Let me think of a few possibilities.

1. Loss incurred transfer to other investments sold to other banks or insurance companies (local & overseas)
2. Sudden hyper-inflation? Does writing off debts = pumping in money to the market by government?
3. Devaluation of currency?

What this may cause = bank run?

Can this be the final nail into banks greedy practices & collapsed under the weight of impossible nation sized debts?

Can your planes, cars, buses operate without valid insurance after the insurance companies collapse in sequence. Hmmm

However, if the greek debt writing off in slower pace...it might be possible to avoid the sudden collapse.

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

 

The banking system and its rules exist to retain people's faith in the currency.

or destroy it......

and well, considering what is going on in the world.....
I kind of think the bankers and wall street have obliterated just about any faith people may have had in the present currencies....including the dollar. which is why china and others are dumping dollar for more tangible assetts, like gold, silver, real estate, ect....

most debts..ya, one should pay back. but I do believe that there are times and circumstances when has every right to walk away from them!!! for me it is when I find that the person at the other end of the deal has dealt with no good faith, or when it's very much needed service that I know my tax dollars are being used to provide that service to others, free of charge...like healthcare.....and I can sit down with paper and pen and show outright that there is no way that it's affordable to me, or to my family!!!
I have a mortgage, a truck payment that I cosigned, a credit card (with only half the available credit used), and a med key card....
well, at the moment, I will do what is needed to see that the truck, the credit card, and the medkey is paid, simply bacause I feel that I was dealt with fairly in those transactions....
the mortgage though, I ain't gonna go hungry over that one!!! since the shoddy way they have dealt with the paper work has probably tarnished the deed to the house and decreased it's value a great deal!!! and well...like I already asked....just how many times should one be expected to pay for one's mortgage?? me, my kids, and my grandkids will probably end up paying for it through taxation and inflation since the gov't has put trillions into clearing the banker's mess up already!!! the ira accounts and pension funds were one of the dumping grounds for these toxic assetts, so well, kind of paid for it there also, didn't we??
it's simplistic to say that we all should be paying our debts back, but well, when the terms of those debts make it impossible, or they are peddling their wares to people who they know danged well won't be able to pay the money back....
well, it's kind of a useless statement to make, isn't it???

the gov't would have been better off just paying everyone's mortgages, it would have been cheaper in the long run, and it wouldn't have exposed all the fraud that the bankers, realators, and wall street were involved in to the world!!!
then, maybe, just maybe, the american dollar would still have some integrity within it!!!

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

 

Why be pissed? How is someone receiving a forgiveness a harm to you. It does not affect you at all. This is the same attitude as the brother of the prodigal son.

Pissed because I have gone without whilst others have had it all and more and not worried about how to pay for any of it ??

They have lived without care and People like me have done without because we see and understand responsibility and values.......

Cancelling debts is rewarding blind stupidity and ignorance.....neither of which make for a society worth living or being part of .......

PDUK

i agree with PDUK but would like to add:

those people who charged cars, furniture, t.v.'s, computers, MP3 players, high dollar clothes, houses too big for them to afford, and stuff still get to keep the items without paying for them.

-subfab

reply to post by subfab


It's not that they bought Mp3 players and TVs!! Are you serious??
What bank would give you money if you aren't able to pay it back? This is really not that difficult to understand.

BUT, since everything else in the country, (like multiple new taxes, interest rates etc.) have increased to the point where you just CAN'T pay it anymore, you obviously have a problem don't you? Which in Greeces case is not even the fault of the citizens, but they are the ones who pay for it!!

How would you like it for the Bank to take your House away from you? The very House you are making your payments every month since the last 15 years and now because of ALL those others factors just can't pay anymore?

reply to post by Hellas


credit card debt is huge. people live beyond their means all the time. regardless of the banks shady system of credit. if the debt is erased, then the people who lived beyond their means get something for nothing.

-subfab

reply to post by nightbringr


Of course with inflation running rampant, why save? I have saved a ton, but I would have been better off being far more profligate or taking big risks on the stock market.

Gambling and spending profligacy have been completely rewarded.

The only thing left to do with the cash is probably buy into commodities and watch the world collapse.

reply to post by subfab


And with inflation, these people will pay off loans with cheaper dollars.

The savers will be wiped out.

No government can outright cancel their debt bonds - that'd be a default. Imagine if the US did that? All the pensioners and others depending on bond interest would perish!

Originally posted by subfab
reply to post by Hellas

 

credit card debt is huge. people live beyond their means all the time. regardless of the banks shady system of credit. if the debt is erased, then the people who lived beyond their means get something for nothing.

-subfab

Actually, between the high interest and fees most people pay off their original debt years before the account is settled. I did the math on a card I got in trouble with in college. I made $4.532 in payments on $1,245 of purchases.

The credit card companies are legal loan sharks, I have no pity for them.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

I understand how the system works, and that is why I play the system, and I don't give it "back".

Nobody gives anything "back", there is no mechanism for it. You are either are part of it or not. Everyone who uses the modern currencies that are backed by nothing are part of it.

The creators of this money should have never been given the authority to do so, but I know you disagree with that so I guess we will part company with that understanding.

The power was given to them by the markets long before central banking and legal tender laws. They would still have that power even if you repeal the legal tender laws and do away with central banking.

Everyone, including you and me, who use the currency give them that power. We use them because the currencies are useful to us. When the currencies stop being useful to most people, they will stop being used and the power of bankers too will vanish into thin air.

No, I will keep using it as long as that is the only one the local stores use.

Exactly how they gained their power and retain it.

But, that is not the only purpose of modern banking. You are really naive to think so.

Nope, the purpose of modern banking is just that. That the power, that accrues to some because of it, can be misused doesn't make that purpose any different. The purpose of a government is to ensure security and justice (whatever that means to the society that government serves) within its territory. That some governments abuse the power doesn't make the purpose of government different. Same goes for banking.

reply to post by dawnstar

or destroy it......

Why should the banks work to destroy the value of something they create in the first place? It is not as if the fiat currencies, paper or electronic, have any value by themselves that somebody should work to destroy.

and well, considering what is going on in the world.....
I kind of think the bankers and wall street have obliterated just about any faith people may have had in the present currencies....including the dollar. which is why china and others are dumping dollar for more tangible assetts, like gold, silver, real estate, ect....

China has the same banking system and no one has lost faith in the Chinese currency. If anything, the faith in the Chinese Yuan is going up with many countries agreeing to accept Yuan as payment for their goods. Yes, the US$ will become worth nothing pretty soon and perhaps the Euro too, but that is not the fault of the banking system. Many other currencies which follow the same system of creation and management won't be affected by this.

me, my kids, and my grandkids will probably end up paying for it through taxation and inflation since the gov't has put trillions into clearing the banker's mess up already!!!

When the US currency loses its value, so does the US government debt denominated in the US$. No, your children and grandchildren will be paying nothing for the US government's obligations of today. The guys who will left high and dry are those that lent the money to the US government. But even they may not lose big if they play their cards right.

the gov't would have been better off just paying everyone's mortgages, it would have been cheaper in the long run, and it wouldn't have exposed all the fraud that the bankers, realators, and wall street were involved in to the world!!!
then, maybe, just maybe, the american dollar would still have some integrity within it!!!

You should have been in charge of the US financial system

Let me guess. So guys who can't pay their mortgage take loans and when they are about to default, the US government pays the banks what these guys owe them and they get to keep the house too. So tell me exactly why anyone would want to pay the mortgage? How about everyone simply pick a house they like and the government pay the cost of the house? Why even go through this unnecessary process of taking a loan from the bank and when on the verge of defaulting on the mortgage payments, government step in to pay the cost?

If everyone stopped banking normally today and did so for one week, the IMF would panic and new laws would be made to force people to use national credit systems

So it looks like the bankers didn't go with plan - to wipe out debts.

(Reuters) - The Greek parliament approved a deeply unpopular austerity bill to secure a second EU/IMF bailout and avoid national bankruptcy, as buildings burned across central Athens and violence spread around the country.

www.reuters.com...

What now?

More riots to come? Not the way to go Greece. You'll just make the situation much much worst than it is already.

Cinemas, cafes, shops and banks were set ablaze in central Athens as black-masked protesters fought riot police outside parliament. State television reported the violence spread to the tourist islands of Corfu and Crete, the northern city of Thessaloniki and towns in central Greece. Shops were looted in the capital where police said 34 buildings were ablaze.

Might need to heed the words of wise man.

Albert Einstein once said:

“Possessions, outward success, publicity, luxury—to me these have always been contemptible. I believe that a simple and unassuming manner of life is best for everyone.”

You have no choice but to go with your parliament's plan - austerity bill. Painful it will be but it's necessary.

Such is the sign of times.