Greece wipes out Citizens Debt!! Tells Bankers to suck it

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


If only we were fortune enough to get our debts eliminated Professional. It will certainly be very interesting to see what happens over there. And I'm sure the rest of our.....leaders...if we can call them that, will be watching intently too. But again, knowing our government, they don't like change, especially dramatic change. They'd rather (like most) wait until the last possible second to come bail our collective butts out of the fire. Wouldn't it be nice to be pro active instead of reactive for a change?

reply to post by Darkmask

Your story is incredible. These people aren't human.
They take advantage of honest people, when they are anything but honest themselves.

A PARTIAL QUOTE OF A QUOTE." This means that virtually every indebted person in Greece, regardless of employment status will rush into court rooms, demanding equitable treatment and a similar debt write down. It also means that the Greek bank sector, already hopelessly insolvent, is about to see its assets, aka loans issued to consumers, about to be written off entirely. And since the ultimate backstopper of the entire Greek financial system is the ECB, the creeping impairments will have no choice but to impact, very soon, the mark-to-market used by both the ECB and the various national banks. Finally, how long before other courts in Europe express solidarity with their own citizens and proceeds with similar resolutions?


Is this something similar to what we saw in Iceland? The people are revolting against the same banks which put people into debt and enslavement with predatory practices and the usage of usury (lending of money on interest). It is for this reason it is forbidden in all major world religions (usury). Could we see something similar in the USA?
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It has been said that the cycles we are now experiencing are relatively close to the fall of the Roman Empire in makeup and dimension. And blueprint used to accurately gauge future outcome based on past outcomes. Could it be...... that the fall was all that there was, and that people fled or died because of it, and it ultimately stalled right there. Now things have changed and a global economy is not as insoluble as a singular entity ie. Rome. And that Formula thought to be sound to bankers to create their power and wealth from time immemorial, can now be fought and overcome by refusal and revolt...... something not counted on by the banking powers who virtually enslaved the world. We as a people have to also be more responsible in our stewardship of money as well, a new mindset must evolve. But the breaking of the back of banking tyranny is a welcome measure, it gives hope that corruption, collusion and greed might be laid to rest with enough people forcing off the shackels.

This is what I don't understand. The banks were bailed out. That paid for all the bad loans. I guess I'm one of the irresponsible. We bought our house in 2002 and put $30,000 down on $155,000 house. Did make the mistake of taking cash out to pay off other bills but seemed like the right thing at the time. Never missed payments, never late on any bills.

Now both my husband and I were laid off two years ago. We've used all our savings and retirement to keep making payments. Now the mortgage company won't even consider working with us other than a loan modification.

I'm also one whose title is now "iffy". My loan was sold off in one of the bundles. It has taken me 2 years to find that out because they wouldn't even tell me who held the loan. The original lender is bankrupt. No one has the original note. The currently lender isn't on any of the paperwork at the title office.

I'm trying to do a loan modification but was turned down once before because I was unemployed, my credit was bad, etc. etc. All the reasons you are supposed to be able to get the modification are the very reasons they said I didn't qualify. I have a new servicing carrier now as the old one was sold. They are now adding inspection fees and title search fees to my monthly statement. They paid the taxes even though I don't have an escrow. They've changed the appointments regarding the modification without telling me.

It's almost as if they just want to keep jacking me around until time runs out and they can foreclose. Fortunately in Texas because of the type loan I have they cannot sell me out on the courthouse steps. They have to actually sue me in court.

I do have income now but my husband does not. However, my income is about one third what it was before. He has an interview tomorrow at 3 at a pay rate of about half. Which will be a blessing even at half.

We are behind on everything but still making at least partial payments. We've tried to sell some things to get caught up but guess what, nobody else has any money either. You can't sell something if no one has the money to buy.

What are people supposed to do if the banks/government crash the economy so that we can't pay our bills.

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
This story .IF TRUE........ really pisses me Off

Because.............

I have been sensible and careful with the money i have.........

I have NOT borrowed excessively or put myself in DEBT but if all thats going to happen is that those whom can't control themselves today or over the past decade get REWARDED by having their debt (and Responsibilities) written off then that is just UNFAIR on people like me......

I will be very annoyed and angry if true..

PDUK

That brings up a very important point.

The fact that you are mad that you bet on the wrong horse and not the fact that the banks are crooked is very interesting.

Let me elaborate, In life you choose the "Right" path as it was illustrated to you by parents teachers and the ruling elite in general. The "work hard and save" path, the "sacrifice will bring you rewards in the future" path.

Now i do agree that this is a much more beneficial path to society IF everybody was playing the same game..BUT you see the problem is this. You are a slave and the more you hoard your money and resources the richer the elite become because they are parasites that feed off your success. You are the hard working ants that collect and save for the coming winter and they are the thieving locusts that steal it all and live the good life off your hard work.

The reason you are now mad is because someone who didnt go through the hardships and sacrifices you went through just got a get of jail free card. They got gifted with the exact same result you worked hard to achieve. Essentially being teleported to the finish line (in your eyes). Look im not saying having her debt wiped is a good thing but im not saying its a bad thing either.

Bankers and CEO's of companies have been getting away with blue murder for years and then getting a million dollar pay out for it. The system is corrupt, that you didnt see that til it was too late is not your fault, but neither is it the fault of someone who DID see it and use it to their advantage. They were just more observant than you and should be rewarded just the same. Thats just my opinion anyway.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Interesting and yet alarming situation.

OK - let's suppose this report is true. That in the coming days average Joe the Greek gets his debts written off.

What will be the following day going to be? Should Joe the Greek start spending his money again, now that he doesn't owe anything anymore? Or would he start saving his money? Or will greed rear its ugly head again?

What about Jane the Greek whose unemployed? Who can she borrow money from? Will someone lend her money in the hopes that he / she will be paid back? In other words what's the incentive for lending?

But if there's no one will lend - how will the economy move? If the economy is not moving how will average Jane and Joe the Greek survive?

There's also those who borrowed too much - does it mean that all they bought are theirs now? What would a car dealership do when all of his customers no longer owe him anything? Does he have the legal right to confiscate his property? Does average Joe have the legal right to protect what is now legally his?

How would the Greek law be enforced? Who will the court side with when or if it comes to litigation? Will they side with the bankers or average Joe?

But what if average Joe refuse to let go of his (now legally owned) property- how can businessman Jack stay in business? If businessman Jack has no money to buy merchandise for his store - how can he survive?

Also, will all the things he bought from businesswoman Jane be forgiven now as if they never existed?

The list can go on and on...

So as you can see - the domino effect is unmeasurable - they are threading on uncharted waters where the consequence will become worse than before - if not handled properly (if there's such a thing).

But if they don't do something or anything the ship will still sink.

In other words - they are "screwed" as well as the entire system of things.

Such is the sign of times.

Cheers.

Most people on this thread are not keeping there eye on the ball, meaning debt is an illusion, well sort of.

What I am suggesting is loans, debt, indentures, slavery are all the same thing. Yes, you signed the loans, but what happens is the true equity is your time and your sweat, all the other numbers like principle, payments, cash, gold, whatever are just means to keep people in constant flux.

If you take one hour and really focus on this video, most people on ATS are intelligent enough to understand how they have been taken.

Other wise just take the "Blue pill" and keep believing the status quo.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Yes, Purple I do pray, or if unlike you that takes this as a negative influence or thought towards you, only if you can have an open mind, which seem that you do not.

And, I never said I rely on God, so that's DumbA$$ #2 for you, lets move on to you rant.

Yes, I do worry about you, because I care about others, which makes you selfish by me wanting the best for everyone, moving on.

Okay, no I am not on any side in the political race to destroy what's left of my nation. I said I was a proud Alaskan, not proud american, so I would say I am healthy in a mentally ill state by having an open mind to all.

I do not have to use a strong phrase like, "mentally ill" to impose a opinion, and is not my fault that you take that to heart.

You ARE lacking in todays world, by your narrow mindedness. Keep an open mind and if you do, this reply may help you or completely offend you, Just because your so offended by what I said doesn't mean you should be down on others to help their families.

This is opinion, take it or leave it.

Said: on topic and to the point.

I am more responsible than most and live a very natural life away from the city in the woods, and maybe you do as well. The REAL one's that do take GOOD responsibility all feel the hardest part of the stick, but you assumptions towards me is based on your perspective, therefore not fact.

Peace

I'll pray for you still, and if you do not like, how about, I will think positive thought towards you, better no?

BTW, can't wait for your reply, and Private Message me if you want to continue this.

but if joe the business man owes more money than what is owed him......won't he still be happy???
and well, even the banks, if they are gonna get zapped having to honor a bunch of credit default swaps when greece goes under, well, wouldn't they be just as happy to have that headache gone as the homeowner??
wouldn't every taxpayer be happy to have their countries debt wiped clean??

reply to post by TXTriker

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out." -- Andrew Jackson

We are supposed to elect leaders that will insure that the system we work and live in is a just one. We have failed to do that.
Our government is so thoroughly corrupt, I fear it will take violence to correct our unjust system.

There will be no good advice here on what you should do. I can tell you that you can walk away from credit card debt in Texas very easily.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


I guess it was really just a rhetorical question. Wasn't really looking for advice. I guess I just wanted to point out that responsible people find themselves in these positions as well. It bugs me that everyone that has unexpected financial issues is refered to as lazy and living the high life.

I do know about the CC debt. I don't like it but have walked away from some. Some I am still paying. I don't like not paying my bills but there came a time to make a choice so we did.

We will just keep plodding along and trying to stay afloat and in our house.

Thanks for not flaming.

Another question, how can we elect good representatives when we are given the choices we have. Can't be done. Regular people can't run the way the system is now so we only get to pick from rich people that only want more money & power.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


No my friend this is what ARGENTINA DID IN 2003 when noone noticed that this crisis was coming but we did, because we always followed the IMF monetary practises till we had nothing to give up anymore due to many corrupt governments we had

Since Nestor Kirchner presidenct this came to a stop: all the qualifications banks reduced our capacity to repay our debts, noone lend us even a little penny, the collapse of our local banks was innminnent, we had more than 24% of unnemployed people due to liberal economic recipes, our retired people died in the banks trying to get their earns of their life out of their accounts, we had 30 people death in some kind of OCCUPY WALL STREET as you americans did but with cassualties, we had 7 PRESIDENTS IN A WEEKK!!!!!!!

can you imagine that???

of course not cause all the americans and the people in europe were not up to the day in things like that; but we argentinians did the same path all over again durint the last 30 years till 2003.

The 25 of may of 2003 a new president took the casa rosada with the aim of getting things well done fot the fisrt os second time in our all republic existantce; once and for all this had to be done for the people and with the people...this is the only real way possible.

but you know what?
Noone noticed only us ARGENTINIANS


NOW THE WHOLE WORLD IS SUFFERING THE SAME CRISIS, YOU MUST DEMAND THIS TO YOUR OWN GOVERNMENTS TO STOP, PEOPLE IS FIRST, NOT THE BANKS, NOT THE FINNANCIAL FOUNDS JUST PEOPLE!!!
WITHOUT PEOPLE THEY ARE NOTHING!!

reply to post by TXTriker

I have no problem withholding my hard earned money from criminals. I have learned a lot about credit card companies, and finance in general. I know who must be paid, and who doesn't deserve to be paid.
I work for myself and my family. I don't care about honoring an agreement with a cold blooded corporation that gets MY tax money without MY permission. I sleep well at night not paying them a dime.
As for honest representatives, they are few. You have to do your homework. I like Ron Paul because he is honest and the criminal class fears him.
Once it becomes clear to you that the system is absolutely corrupt, it is easier to show them the middle finger and say, "COME AND TAKE IT IF YOU CAN!".
That is where I am at. They screwed up the world, I didn't, but I intend to survive.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


2 things.

first:
grow the %$^& up. grow a heart. get your head out of your ass. get a sense of compassion. get some common sense. read threads before posting in them.

Second:
as per mentioned by posts preceding the one I'm replying too - its not the individuals that accumulated the debts personally it was their governments, and those that did have massive debt created by themselves aren't to blame because when Greece is in economic ruin, its people are going to need to incur more and more debt just to get through each day & survive. No matter how good you believe you are at managing your money if you lived in Greece you would be lining up at the courts with the rest of them.

-TF

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
You assume that I want to spend RECKLESSLY....
Actually, you are wrong in my case........... I have and never did buy into the Materialistic and Consumer society that most crave to illustrate what shallow lives they lead and whom they are...

you are so full of crap and it gets worse the more attention you're given. Your very first post said "I missed out" how can you feel you "missed out' on reckless spending & materialistic values if you never cared and don't care about them.

full of crap.

The QUESTION is how to recover or resolve this situation............... I think many people need to re-visit their moral compass and 'take a rain check' on the world they currently live in......
Cancelling DEBT does not help AT ALL....
PDUK

people who talk in 'catch phrases' & 'sayings' that really offer no specific information usually do so to appear more knowledgable and wise when talking about a subject then they really are. Fools attempting not to be seen as foolish.

e.g "moral compass" ...means nothing.
"take a rain check" on the world they currently live in" ....really means nothing.

I'm done now.

-TF

They have their debt erased to only get back into debt in the future again so what does it solve?

reply to post by Ancient Champion


So you'd solve it by forcing them to turn to criminal activity to provide for themselves or their family.

Good plan. You should run for office. There's room in Romney's cabinet for you.

Originally posted by dawnstar
but if joe the business man owes more money than what is owed him......won't he still be happy???
and well, even the banks, if they are gonna get zapped having to honor a bunch of credit default swaps when greece goes under, well, wouldn't they be just as happy to have that headache gone as the homeowner??
wouldn't every taxpayer be happy to have their countries debt wiped clean??

All will be happy unless all agrees to the plan. But in the meantime what does the banker do when his creditors come knocking at the doors demanding payback? Especially if the creditors did not agree to the plan - i.e foreign creditors? What should the banks do?

Of course Joe here will be super happy now that he doesn't owe the banks anything anymore - but who will pay him for his job if the bankers doesn't give loans anymore to businesses?

So looking at it from different angles - I can't see it working.

And as noted already - we are now in a world economy - tied together and as it appears no one wants to bail out Greece. So where will the bailout money come from and if it does come what strings are attached to it?

It is interesting to note the different view points on this thread. But at the end of it all there is little real divergence of view points expressed than it appears from the discussion.

I haven't seen anyone encourage financial irresponsibility. However the apparent divergence seems to be about who should bear the brunt of the financial irresponsibility of some. In reality, regardless of what anyone wishes for, the financial irresponsibility of some is shared by everyone else including those financially responsible. There is no getting away from it. If a financially irresponsible person were to spend his/her way deep into debt all the way to the end of his/her life, who pays the cost? Everyone who was irresponsible enough to lend him/her. If the lenders pass on the cost of their own irresponsible lending to the other responsible borrowers, the responsible borrowers pay the cost whether they like it or not.

The current crisis in Greece and elsewhere is the result of systemic financial irresponsibility, not isolated instances of individual financial irresponsibility and everyone will pay, the difference being only in the degree.

The current instance where a Greek court wiped off the debts of a person is not a matter of principle, but a crisis response. Responses in crisis are always bound to be different from responses in normal times which are expected to be based on principles. This response is not intended to encourage personal financial irresponsibility, but to be realistic about the person's ability to repay the debts. In all likelihood the measure won't be granted to a person who is considered capable of repaying the debt obligations and perhaps the one being rescued from the debts would have the ability to get into fresh debt severely curtailed. Not unlike a personal bankruptcy, but with the person retaining possession of some of the assets acquired.

Since it is not a blanket law concerning all debts and each case will be viewed only on its merits, it cannot be viewed as encouraging or rewarding personal financial irresponsibility. As for the banks that would lose out, well they made a financially irresponsible decision when lending to these potential defaulters and they should pay the price for it too. Others who borrow from these banks, now probably at higher interest rates to cover the losses, should pay the price of banking with financially irresponsible banks

Those who, justifiably, are upset about some of these financially irresponsible people getting away with playing the system to their advantage, should take solace in the fact that they exchanged mental peace and certainty for some possessions, while the others valued the former. Some risk takers always get rewarded, no matter what the system is. I am not a risk taker, so I don't win big or lose big. I don't envy those who succeed while taking big risks, including playing the system, and I don't pity them when they lose equally badly.