Must read the very secret Project Cloverleaf — The Science Behind it

reply to post by Phage


Why does Evergreen Aviation say that it's Supertanker is capable of "weather modification"?
Supertanker Services

Scientists criticise handling of pilot project to 'geoengineer' climate

With all due respect, Phage, I would not say it's "still in it's infancy"

The date and location for the controversial pilot project were announced with great fanfare at the British Science Festival in September, but the scientific advisers to its funding council have criticised the decision to make the test date public before sufficient public discussion about the nature and future implications of the project

The planned first test involved pumping 150 litres of water into the air to study whether the engineering of the project was feasible. The date and timing of the first test was unveiled publicly on 14 September but just two weeks later on 29 September the EPSRC announced that the project was being delayed for six months to "allow time for more engagement with stakeholders".

reply to post by luxordelphi


YOU are the one who is reading and accepting this claptrap as "truth".....the circus analogy is more than apt.

Or, to paraphrase from the film "Forrest Gump":

"Gullible is as gullible does."

Original "Forrest Gump" quote

reply to post by luxordelphi


Well you don't seem to have a clue about what HAARP is, let alone the basics of meteorology. Little wonder you believe everything charlatans like Dutchsinse feed you.

I think the Barnum quote is very appropriate.

Originally posted by Neysa

Why does Evergreen Aviation say that it's Supertanker is capable of "weather modification"?
Supertanker Services

Do you know what weather modification is?

It's otherwise known as cloud seeding - something which has been taking place in the US for decades. And is as secret as the name of your capital city.

With all due respect, Phage, I would not say it's "still in it's infancy"

On the contrary, the story you link to proves that Phage is correct! Test have been proposed, though even these are controversial.

reply to post by Neysa

Why does Evergreen Aviation say that it's Supertanker is capable of "weather modification"?

Because it could be utilized in "cloud seeding" activities, if called upon.

But, there are far more cheaper alternatives....that airplane is quite expensive to operate, compared to the smaller planes used for such purposes.


Oh, and I think people get too hung up on the phrase "weather modification". It helps once they understand the concept, and the difference between "weather" and "climate".

Definition of "weather modification"

Deliberate or inadvertent alteration of atmospheric conditions by human activity, sufficient to modify the weather on a local or regional scale.

Climate is:

The general or average weather conditions of a certain region, including temperature, rainfall, and wind. On Earth, climate is most affected by latitude, the tilt of the Earth's axis, the movements of the Earth's wind belts, the difference in temperatures of land and sea, and topography. Human activity, especially relating to actions relating to the depletion of the ozone layer, is also an important factor.

Weather is:

1. The state of the atmosphere at a given time and place, with respect to variables such as temperature, moisture, wind velocity, and barometric pressure.

reply to post by Neysa

Weather modification (cloud seeding) is not geoengineering.

With all due respect, Phage, I would not say it's "still in it's infancy"

I would say that a feasibility experiment to loft a balloon a few thousand feet, carrying a pipe which will pump water is a far cry from deploying a geoengineering scheme.

Committee Approves Bill Establishing Weather Modification Program From 2005
I respectfully disagree
I have to leave now, dammit.
I don't understand how you can agree that there is "cloud seeding" and not see that as geo engineering/weather modification.

I am having too much fun, but alas, I must continue this conversation later.

I'll be back.....

reply to post by Neysa

Hutchison's bill did not pass the Senate...in any of her attempts to do so.

Geoengineering involves large scale attempt to influence climate.
Cloud seeding (weather modification) is carried out in very limited areas in an attempt to influence precipitation from existing cumulus clouds.

Originally posted by Neysa
Committee Approves Bill Establishing Weather Modification Program From 2005
I respectfully disagree

I have to leave now, dammit.

I don't understand how you can agree that there is "cloud seeding" and not see that as geo engineering/weather modification.

Because it takes place on a small scale and (assuming it works at all) does not have a global effect on climate. So it is NOT geoengineering.

Obviously it IS weather modification - which is what it has always been known as.

How much have you looked into the subject over the past few years? I often post links to relevant stories in my blog (see link in my sig) if you are interested.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Neysa

 

Weather modification (cloud seeding) is not geoengineering.

So then, cloud seeding DOES exist....therefore, IS considered weather modification, right? If so, then the contrail/chemtrail debate, should be done, and over with. Chemtrails...aka cloud seeding, is a FACT!

reply to post by nuttin4U

No. Not unless you want to redefine "chemtrails" to something other than what the OP is talking about.
Cloud seeding is carried out from the ground (with mortars) and from small planes which fly into and under cumulus clouds. Any trail left by a cloud seeder would probably not be visible from the ground and certainly would not persist and spread.

What a crock.

Why didnt the US just "turn off" Osamas electrical system them rather than risk special force troops, helicopters and enraging Pakistan.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

How come plane A...leaves a normal looking trail...and yet plane B leaves a trail, MILES long...that forms into clouds?

When you look at clouds in the sky, do you not see that they are present at different altitudes? The air is not all the same, everywhere, at all altitudes. Temperature, relative humidity and thus water vapor saturation levels are different, and constantly changing over time.

Your "plane A" and "plane B" are at different altitudes.....it is that simple.

How do these trails turn a blue day, into a cloudy one?

Same way any clouds form and then develop. The contrails will act as a "trigger", when they form in conditions that allow even MORE clouds. The clouds will appear eventually, it is the nature of the ever-changing weather in the Earth's atmosphere. Contrails do act to speed up the process, though.

And also, please do tell me, is CLOUD SEEDING a reality??? If so, is WEATHER MODIFICATION, a
POSSIBILITY????

Of course, there are plenty of places where "cloud seeding" is discussed. Haven't you read them? It would help if you would, so at least would have the understanding of what it means, to "seed" clouds. You see, the only reason for that is to make precipitation happen. To kick Nature in the butt, to spur it along.

You have to have a cloud, though...in the first place, to have something to "seed". AND, not just any cloud either.

Contrails are cirrus clouds.....they look like cirrus, behave like cirrus, and evolve like cirrus. And cirrus clouds do NOT make rain or snow, and are of course NOT "seeded" in order to attempt to make precipitation.



Now, sorry, but this is off-topic and a bit inane, but I include it only as an indicator of the sort of illogical "comparisons" that are commonplace in so many flawed "arguments" of this sort:

Sure, libraries have books with pictures....but 100 years from now, when someone opens a history book, from today....will they believe fire melts steels....causing 100 story buildings to fall, at freefall speed; defying gravity and the laws of physics? Why do i use that as an example? Well, because HIS-story can be changed, whenever "they" deem necessary. How do you KNOW those books weren't reprinted...and redistributed? Now, call me "silly" but IS IT POSSIBLE????

Nothing in that rant has any hint of truth to it, just repeats of the same fallacies, with a bit of absurd thrown in.....to actually "ask" if old copyrighted books in libraries have been "reprinted"???

Come on....this is so ridiculous, I'd be embarrassed for even suggesting it.

edit on Fri 27 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

I know what cloud seeding is. But, what makes you think, that nature needs a 'kick start'...as you have so elegantly put it??? Right there, is the admission, that they are "helping nature" by kick starting it, via 'cloud seeding'. So, stop telling people.....WEATHER MODIFICATION...does not exist. It most CERTAINLY DOES! Unless, of course, you don't know what the word: "MODIFY" means. Or perhaps, the word....WEATHER...stumps you?

So, since you admit, they kick start it....is it possible....to STEER IT? Moisture doesn't just linger around...it travels...and eventually gets dumped in the form of rain, or snow. Add the right conditions, and i'm SURE, they can cause blizzards, excessive rainfall, heck...even tornadoes.

What's next? You gonna show me a corny youtube video, with pics from the late 1800's, of the same types of clouds? Usually, that's your script. Me and you have done this dance before, ProudBird. You got an answer for everything. But, so do i!

You know what's absurd....thinking that fire melts steel....as millions of sheeple believe! Now THAT'S absurd. But i'm sure, that's not your M.O.S., right? Your M.O.S. is contrail/chemtrail conspiracy theorists. You know NOTHING about 9-11 truth. hahahahaha

Nobody claims fire melts steel.

Nobody claims weather modification does not exist.

Those are straw-man arguments.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

No. Not unless you want to redefine "chemtrails" to something other than what the OP is talking about.
Cloud seeding is carried out from the ground (with mortars) and from small planes which fly into and under cumulus clouds. Any trail left by a cloud seeder would probably not be visible from the ground and certainly would not persist and spread.

I took these pics a while ago. Does that LOOK like a 'contrail'? Or, maybe it is a 'contrail'...and we got the words twisted. Chemtrails must be the small streaks, right?


Here's the full gallery, but start from the second page:



You can clearly see, how the day changed. This is what 'contrails' do?

Originally posted by Uncinus
Nobody claims fire melts steel.

Nobody claims weather modification does not exist.

Those are straw-man arguments.

Nobody claims fire melts steel? Nobody??? Like, NOBODY????? NO BODY?????? Really?F.E.M.A. suggests

I'll let you think about the other part of your statement.

reply to post by nuttin4U

The first picture does look like a contrail (with some cirrus).
Some nice examples of cirrus and altocumulus in your gallery.

The weather changed during the day? Why do you find that odd? Where I live it happens a lot. With or without contrails.

reply to post by Neysa


Regarding the Supertanker, on that site therevis a Q&A containing the following explanation;

Are there any other markets for the Evergreen Supertanker? Can it operate globally?
Evergreen is studying other applications for the Supertanker. Oil spill containment, chemical decontamination and weather modification are all potential markets for this aircraft. Because the aircraft is pressurized, the Evergreen Supertanker has the capability of any long-range Boeing 747 passenger aircraft. This allows the aircraft to deploy to any international location.

This suggests they are not actually using the aircraft for that purpose, but will if someone wants to hire it, exploring possibilities if you like. Notice the word 'potential'.

What company would not want o maximise its assets?

Has anyone booked it for that job yet? My feeling is that it is too big.

reply to post by nuttin4U


Where does it say "melts"?

As I read it, it said hat the heat from the fires weakened the structure, not melted it. Do you deny that extreme heat can weaken steel?

It seems like another example of someone seeing what they want, rather than what is there. Just like with chemtrails.

Interestingly, if you go back over the threads on this board, it would appear that should never be any clouds or rain at all anywhere on this planet if you read the Chemtrailers starting threads about "evil spraying operations" with every new weather front. Interesting perspective they have there.

Originally posted by nuttin4U

Originally posted by Uncinus
Nobody claims fire melts steel.

Nobody claims weather modification does not exist.

Those are straw-man arguments.

Nobody claims fire melts steel? Nobody??? Like, NOBODY????? NO BODY?????? Really?F.E.M.A. suggests

I'll let you think about the other part of your statement.

FEMA did not suggest that fire actually melted steel. They suggested a "severe high temperature corrosion attack", and subsequent melting of the corroded material. Characterizing the formation of a eutectic mixture as simply "fire melting steel" is a straw man.

Here's what FEMA says:
www.fema.gov...

I stand by the rest of my statement. Nobody with any knowledge of the subject has ever denied weather modification has taken place for the last 60+ years. So saying that the debunkers claim otherwise is also a straw man attack.

When are they going to change the forum name from Geo-engineering, and chemtrails to Ego-engineering, and rip on anyone that posts in this forum ? Every thread in this forum has a stamp from proudbird, unicus, phage, and alyousos the gaul. Everything posted here is twisted by you 4 into a debate on whether chemtrails exist, and at what altitude etc etc etc , exact same throw-up as yesterday. The majority of your posts are in fact actually off topic, and the mention of straw man this, and straw man that in every second post is tired already.

If you acted like this in every forum this site would turn from a conspiracy site to a bigger version of the cesspool of bickering this forum has turned into. Why not go to the paranormal forum, and twist every post there into a discussion on whether ghost's exist ? I also cannot understand how you can be here at the ready 24/7 to shoot down every single person that puts a post here ? Do you guys sleep, or is your quest for forum domination keeping you up at night ?

Seriously let the op present his material, and if you don't agree just post a link to a thread you've already destroyed. It will say the exact same thing as your saying here word for word.