Must read the very secret Project Cloverleaf — The Science Behind it

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posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 



I have a difficult time believing that ice particles would still remain in solid form when they are hovering near the tip of a skyscraper.


Show one, just ONE example of a cirrus cloud "hovering" near the tip of a skyscraper!!





posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


Sorry, but these situations I've only seen with my own two eyes and have never taken a photo. I'll have to take a camera with me next time and I'll be sure to post the picture.

And, no. I'm not talking about fog in the early morning.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


Just to double check here, are you agreeing that all old photos of contrails are photoshopped?

What about video footage? What's your thoughts on that?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


No, I don't believe they are photoshopped. I believe that they have been experimenting with certain ways of dispersing chemicals for longer than we think. Just like the computer was used only for government purposes before the public was allowed to purchase one, I believe that chemical warfare has been in the works for many, many years and we're just now able to talk about it.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


Well then, you have never (despite your assertion and claim) seen a cirrus cloud near the tip of a skyscraper. You would have seen stratus though.



Just one source for Stratus Clouds...there are many more


Stratus clouds are uniformed layered clouds that are below 6,000 feet. They are formed in sheets and are usually associated with overcast weather. Fog or mist is the result of very low stratus clouds. They can form only a few hundred feet above ground.
edit on Fri 27 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


No. It wasn't a cirrus or any other type of cloud.

Let's get back on topic and discuss Project Cloverleaf.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 



I believe that they have been experimenting with certain ways of dispersing chemicals for longer than we think.


Your "beliefs" are not evidence of anything....except that you possess a "belief".

IF you want this to be verified, then find the proof....photos of any airplane that can conduct this alleged "spraying" up at the typical airliner cruise altitudes.....that is where contrails form, and that is where the contrails are called "chemtrails" by the ones who wish to promote the hoax and myth of these things.


So, photos of the airplane and the "spray" equipment, as well as photos of the facilities where the "chemicals" are loaded onto the airplanes. Also, how about all of the people who would have to be involved? Where are they? People to make this "stuff" somewhere, like a factory...then load it onto trucks to transport it to the airports, then people to load it onto the airplane, etc, etc.....

Where are all of these people?
edit on Fri 27 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


"Project Cloverleaf" is part of the hoax....concocted to attempt to add credence to the myth of "chemtrails".

You have been conned, big time, if you believe one word of any of this crap. The perpetrators stepped on their wanks big time, with the claim of the "airline executive".....it is so ridiculous to anyone who has ever worked in the airline industry.

But, unfortunately there are always a segment of the population who are tragically gullible....you aren't one of them, are you??



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


www.chemtrails911.com...

Another patent worth mentioning is the 1975 US Navy patent which is for a “contrail generation apparatus for producing powder contrails. In the summary section it clearly states “the term 'contrail' was adopted for convenience in identifying the visible powder trail". It appears they are still using the word “contrail” for convenience. The people carrying out these types of operations will never use the word “chemtrails”. They use terms such as aerial obscuration, persistent contrails, or sky soot.


Please see the following link to the patent information.
www.rense.com...

How long do you think they can test stuff before they can apply for a patent? Considering it takes a fairly good amount of time for a patent to be awarded, they probably continued to use the chemicals under the statement "Patent Pending".



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


Is Project Paperclip a hoax, too? What about Project MK Ultra or Operation Midnight Climax?
These were all hoaxes?

Edit to Add: I have some work to do, but I'll be back later.
edit on 27-1-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


You use a "chemtrail" website as a "source"? And Rense??


SO....a "patent" that is clearly defined, is not "secret"....and this means what, exactly? Read the description, it clearly describes the apparatus. Are then any photos of this "device" described by the patent? Any at all?


In every, and I mean every[ photo or video of so-called "chemtrails", they look, behave and evolve exactly like normal contrails. Each time.

Furthermore, the so-called "chemtrails" are formed right where contrails form --- directly AFT and in line with the engines, and the engine exhaust.

As yet, not one photograph of any sort of "spraying" by artificial means has been produced as evidence. None.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


"Project Paperclip"?

What do Nazi scientists being brought to the USA after World War 2 have to do with this topic?


This is the sort of non-sequitur nonsense that infests the "chemtrail" claims, constantly.

I thought people were more intelligent than that.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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I respect healthy skepticism.
That being said.... I don't understand why people who believe in a "persistant contrail" conspiricy are continually ridiculed on this "conspiricy" site. There have been patents granted for spraying apparatus and the gov. makes no secret about trying to develope ways to reflect sunlight away from Earth. Some of you should, maybe, stop being so judgemental and drop your superiority complex long enough to do a little research on "Geo Planetary Engineering"

Geoengineering our way out of trouble
Columbia University



Several years ago, Wallace Broecker, Lamont-Doherty geochemist and chief scientist at Biosphere 2, investigated what he thought was one of the "cheapest and least dangerous" of the geoengineering options: injecting massive amounts of sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere, using commercial flights of 747s. This scheme, originally proposed by the Soviet climatologist M.I. Budyko, essentially creates the human equivalent of one Mount Pinatubo eruption a year,




A changing climate of opinion?
The Economist



When civilian flights over the United States stopped in the wake of the terrorist attacks of September 2001, the lack of sulphur-laden contrails led to a perceptible rise in temperature. Philip Rasch, of the National Centre for Atmospheric Research, in Boulder, Colorado, and his colleagues are therefore exploring the idea of deliberately polluting the stratosphere with sulphate in order to reflect solar heat back into space.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by nuttin4U
 


Utter absurdity:


.....with their crystal clear photos...edited in photoshop; to make it look like "a very long time".


There is this building in many cities of the world....it's called a "library". In this building are things called "books". These "books" have photographs on their pages....there are many, many that have photographs that document the existence of persistent contrails, over many decades.

"photoshop"?
The "chemtrail" believers are just getting sillier and sillier every day.



ProudBird...the great 'contrail' debater. Is that you, again? hahahha You contrail theorists need to give it up. Your theories just DON'T MAKE SENSE. So please, enlighten me...cuz my SENSES are confusing me. How come plane A...leaves a normal looking trail...and yet plane B leaves a trail, MILES long...that forms into clouds? How do these trails turn a blue day, into a cloudy one? Are you telling me, what i'm seeing, with my own eyes, really isn't what i'm seeing, at all? So, my mind is playing tricks on me, right?


And please, do ENLIGHTEN me, as to HOW i am being silly. These days.....ANYTHING is possible. Sure, libraries have books with pictures....but 100 years from now, when someone opens a history book, from today....will they believe fire melts steels....causing 100 story buildings to fall, at freefall speed; defying gravity and the laws of physics? Why do i use that as an example? Well, because HIS-story can be changed, whenever "they" deem necessary. How do you KNOW those books weren't reprinted...and redistributed? Now, call me "silly" but IS IT POSSIBLE???? Jus' sayin'!!!

And also, please do tell me, is CLOUD SEEDING a reality??? If so, is WEATHER MODIFICATION, a POSSIBILITY????



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by killemall
 




for putting this up. It was your presentation from the Belfort Group that gave me my first glimmer of understanding about HAARP. It's an ugly looking thing and it's comforting to know that first impressions, in this case, don't seem to be wrong. I guess the bottom line is that secrecy about this is at an all time high because it's an illegal weapon in global terms.

for persevering and representing. There are a lot of people, like me, who desire to understand HAARP and it's implications and it's purpose and the motive for a weapon that can killemall.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 

You should read the actual patent.
The "contrail" generator is an apparatus which is attached to a target drone or towed target to make it more visible for targeting (for practice). It has an advantage over the traditional method of injecting oil into jet exhaust because it requires no heat source and could thus be used on a towed aerial target. It's a pretty bulky thing that hangs out in the airstream.

The present invention is for a powder generator requiring no heat source to emit a "contrail" with sufficient visibility to aid in visual acquisition of an aircraft target vehicle and the like.

www.google.com...

Can you explain how a "contrail" consisting of a fine powder could expand and cover the whole sky?
edit on 1/27/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by nuttin4U
 



How come plane A...leaves a normal looking trail...and yet plane B leaves a trail, MILES long...that forms into clouds?


When you look at clouds in the sky, do you not see that they are present at different altitudes? The air is not all the same, everywhere, at all altitudes. Temperature, relative humidity and thus water vapor saturation levels are different, and constantly changing over time.

Your "plane A" and "plane B" are at different altitudes.....it is that simple.



How do these trails turn a blue day, into a cloudy one?


Same way any clouds form and then develop. The contrails will act as a "trigger", when they form in conditions that allow even MORE clouds. The clouds will appear eventually, it is the nature of the ever-changing weather in the Earth's atmosphere. Contrails do act to speed up the process, though.




And also, please do tell me, is CLOUD SEEDING a reality??? If so, is WEATHER MODIFICATION, a
POSSIBILITY????


Of course, there are plenty of places where "cloud seeding" is discussed. Haven't you read them? It would help if you would, so at least would have the understanding of what it means, to "seed" clouds. You see, the only reason for that is to make precipitation happen. To kick Nature in the butt, to spur it along.

You have to have a cloud, though...in the first place, to have something to "seed". AND, not just any cloud either.

Contrails are cirrus clouds.....they look like cirrus, behave like cirrus, and evolve like cirrus. And cirrus clouds do NOT make rain or snow, and are of course NOT "seeded" in order to attempt to make precipitation.



Now, sorry, but this is off-topic and a bit inane, but I include it only as an indicator of the sort of illogical "comparisons" that are commonplace in so many flawed "arguments" of this sort:


Sure, libraries have books with pictures....but 100 years from now, when someone opens a history book, from today....will they believe fire melts steels....causing 100 story buildings to fall, at freefall speed; defying gravity and the laws of physics? Why do i use that as an example? Well, because HIS-story can be changed, whenever "they" deem necessary. How do you KNOW those books weren't reprinted...and redistributed? Now, call me "silly" but IS IT POSSIBLE????


Nothing in that rant has any hint of truth to it, just repeats of the same fallacies, with a bit of absurd thrown in.....to actually "ask" if old copyrighted books in libraries have been "reprinted"???


Come on....this is so ridiculous, I'd be embarrassed for even suggesting it.

edit on Fri 27 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Neysa
 

I've done plenty of reading about the status of geoengineering. It's not even in its infancy. It's hardly more than a gleam in the eyes of those who are suggesting it, much less being put to use.

That article in the Economist doesn't really have it right. What some scientists actually claimed about the lack of contrails in the days following 9/11 was that contrails actually seemed to cause a net increase in temperatures.

These results suggest that contrails can suppress both daytime highs (by reflecting sunlight back to space) and nighttime lows (by trapping radiated heat). That is, they can be both cooling and warming clouds. But what is the net effect? Do they cool more than they warm, or vice versa? "Well, the assumption is a net warming," Travis says, "but there is a lot of argument still going on about how much of a warming effect they produce."

www.pbs.org...



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Oh, not HAARP again?

You see, this is the most definitive proof that the "Project Cloverleaf" claims are all nonsense. The very "sources" in the Opening Post of this thread are clearly rubbish. Since it attributes qualities and abilities to HAARP that are completely false, and glaringly inaccurate.

It is saddening to see the lack of science acumen displayed so evidently any more. Especially in this era of the "Internet Age", with so much good information at one's fingertips.....to see this sort of crap spewed day in and day out.


"There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" was a long-ago motto that is usually attributed to and associated with P. T. Barnum, from the 1800s. The actual derivation of the phrase is open to question, but con-artists and charlatans and hucksters have proven for centuries that there is a kernel of truth in its sentiment.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


claims to knowledge of HAARP + quotes from circus folk = yawns





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