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Evolutionary theory: Gaps and not yet understood phenonemon

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posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
Evolution is a fact.


Not going to go to much into this but since it's actually NOT factually proven at all, don't make the statement that it is. You have a fused chromosome, no event in any span of evolution will cause this, it was done to you. Mainstream wants to tell you that you're not that old and some early homonids were wandering around hundred thousand years ago in Africa when we have bones of humans now being found and dated back either older or inconclusive to the other find.




posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by ZeroUnlmtd
 


Your mixing up evolution with evolutionary theory.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Evil_Santa
 


Sure why not, I do investigate it also. Does it matter what I do?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by BBalazs
 




I open this thread, to be in constant motion examining these gaps.
I feel that we dont download knowledge, we learn it.
So if there are gaps, as we learn more and more about them, we may possibly explain them along our quest to understand.

My questions on ToE are many. But Ive found its impossible to get an honest assessment of it because many who subscribe to ToE already hold that ...

Evolution is a fact.

...when that is the very thing thats being challenged.


In my experience, I have found that
a) All who defend ToE have already concluded that ToE is a confirmed and undisputed fact, and address any queries with "we know evolution is a fact, so X must have evolved.
b) Any further debate and questioning of ToE is often brushed aside, and people asking these questions are written off as "creationists"

Not that I lose any sleep over people accepting ToE as an explanation as to how we got here, just that I've come to realize that ToE vs 'that other explanation" type conversations lead nowhere.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by abominatonofdesolation
In my opinion, there is only there is only one gap, or problem in Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution By Natural Selection. My problem is humans, although we have archaeological evidence of pre-human 'common ancestors.' We also have evidence that they weren't very smart, certainly not capable of much more intelligent thought than a chimp or any other primate. The problem is, we are the only animal capable of free thought, by that I basically mean the ability to say yes or no. We are the only animal that can get over survival instinct.

I do not agree with your definition of free thought. Sure my cat isn't going to answer me in English and say "yes or no" when I call her, but she does indeed make the decision to either come or to not come. If it was pure instinct, she'd come every time (or ignore me every time). Yes, quite often instincts are the prime mechanism for survival, but it doesn't mean animals don't actually think. Now I'm not saying they have advanced thought and can plan out their financial future or work with nuclear physics, but they certainly do make "yes" and "no" decisions. Many animals can think socially and use tools to build shelter or hunt. Obviously humans are the smartest creatures on the planet, but it doesn't mean homo habilis didn't have free thought. It just wasn't as advanced as ours.


My completely hypothetical example of this is to take a pig for arguments sake (because a pig is one the cleverest animals on the planet). If you were to abuse a pig and put it in unmanageable living conditions, hit it every once in a while with a baseball bat, play weird noises all day, and give it strange visuals, but still feed it as much as it needs 2 survive. The pig would eat it instinctively without a flicker of cognitive thought. But if you where to do the same 2 a human, a human would eventually think, "you know what iv'e had enough of this," and starve themselves.

Really? Then why are so many people in prison and not dead from starvation? Choice is only an illusion in those situations. The pig eats because it needs to survive. However, if you treat a pig properly, you can communicate with it and teach it many things.

news.discovery.com...

If animals don't have free thought, then why are there so many cases of animals getting depressed or committing suicide?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
Not going to go to much into this but since it's actually NOT factually proven at all, don't make the statement that it is. You have a fused chromosome, no event in any span of evolution will cause this, it was done to you. Mainstream wants to tell you that you're not that old and some early homonids were wandering around hundred thousand years ago in Africa when we have bones of humans now being found and dated back either older or inconclusive to the other find.


Prove that a fused chromosome is impossible through evolution. Evolutionary theory is not a fact in itself because we don't have all the answers but the theory is backed by so much tangible evidence, that denying evolution itself is sillier than denying the earth revolves around the sun.


a) All who defend ToE have already concluded that ToE is a confirmed and undisputed fact, and address any queries with "we know evolution is a fact, so X must have evolved.
b) Any further debate and questioning of ToE is often brushed aside, and people asking these questions are written off as "creationists"

Wrong. People who defend evolution post FACTS that support it. It is then the people who don't believe it that ignore this evidence and still bring up the same nauseating questions that have been answered a thousand times in this section. This is why creationists (not all, just fundamentalists), are often dismissed. They don't deal with facts and evidence, but are generally very quick to take something like a belief in god or creation as absolutely fact with nothing to go on.
edit on 24-1-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
Not going to go to much into this but since it's actually NOT factually proven at all, don't make the statement that it is. You have a fused chromosome, no event in any span of evolution will cause this, it was done to you. Mainstream wants to tell you that you're not that old and some early homonids were wandering around hundred thousand years ago in Africa when we have bones of humans now being found and dated back either older or inconclusive to the other find.


Prove that a fused chromosome is impossible through evolution.


Prove that it IS possible instead? We're the only species with this and WE didn't evolve, no real missing link, nothing , nada, some subspecies that resemble ape more than man. We look nothing like early homonids



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Care to be specific? What gaps?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
Prove that it IS possible instead? We're the only species with this and WE didn't evolve, no real missing link, nothing , nada, some subspecies that resemble ape more than man. We look nothing like early homonids


Dude, that stuff has been posted in this section hundreds of times. No missing links is beyond laughable. Do your own research, I'm not posting something I've posted 20+ times. Search google for "evolution evidence" and you will find the answers staring you in the face. We look nothing like homo habilis, neanderthal or heidelbergensis? Really?

humanorigins.si.edu...

Chromosome fusing impossible?

www.evolutionpages.com...


edit on 24-1-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
Prove that it IS possible instead? We're the only species with this and WE didn't evolve, no real missing link, nothing , nada, some subspecies that resemble ape more than man. We look nothing like early homonids


Dude, that stuff has been posted in this section hundreds of times. No missing links is beyond laughable. Do your own research, I'm not posting something I've posted 20+ times. Search google for "evolution evidence" and you will find the answers staring you in the face. We look nothing like homo habilis, neanderthal or heidelbergensis? Really?

humanorigins.si.edu...

Chromosome fusing impossible?
edit on 24-1-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)


you posted a webpage on molecular biology in the view of that person's beliefs, there is NO evidence of chromosome fusing happening naturally in nature as NO other animal on this planet has this. We can speculate all day on the origins of man but in the end it is all speculation without proof, and the proof is showing that the fused chromosomes have to be done by an external intervention unless proven otherwise naturally.(which still hasn't happened)



edit on 24-1-2012 by ZeroUnlmtd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
you posted a webpage on molecular biology in the view of that person's beliefs, there is NO evidence of chromosome fusing happening naturally in nature as NO other animal on this planet has this. We can speculate all day on the origins of man but in the end it is all speculation without proof, and the proof is showing that the fused chromosomes have to be done by an external intervention unless proven otherwise naturally.(which still hasn't happened)

LOL. You clearly said that fusing a chromosome is not possible through evolution. I just showed you an article backed by evidence that shows exactly how it IS POSSIBLE. I didn't say it was proven 100%. I said it was possible, which goes against your original statement. You need to learn a little bit about how science works. You don't assume something to be supernatural simply because you can't prove it wrong. If you want to assume that chromosomes were fused by an external force, you need to show evidence of this force or mechanisms involved in the process. Unicorns don't automatically exist because nobody has proven it wrong. They are assumed to not exist until someone shows conclusive evidence of a unicorn skeleton or a live unicorn. Gaps in scientific knowledge don't automatically mean there's a creator. It simply means there is more research to be down. There is way more scientific data behind evolution than any other theory to explain the diversity of life on earth. And no, that doesn't mean there is no creator. There very well could be, it just lacks evidence.
edit on 24-1-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Good start evolution is fact...but we got a lot of gaps...Let me fill those gaps for you if I may...The human brain is what distinguishes us from animals. Your brain is what defines you. Man has always had this brain capacity. We are supposedly a young species yet have built mega-cities, rockets,nukes, harnessed electricity, flight, math, power to plan future events understanding that there is a future/tomorrow, know our place in the universe, read, write, etc. etc.

Science is almost always wrong, I know your logic is we wil believe this theory until we prove it false in two years...Science to me is the attempt to know what God already knows. Not necessarily against it but to fully believe in something that changes with the wind and has sooo many "scientists" claim to prove evolution to find out its another fraud, well, why sign up for this?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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ask yourself this...If man did evolve from earlier species, then why do we have countless dinosaur skeletons from much earlier time periods but the primitive men, you know full body skeletons just never show up..For man to have survived as long as it would take to evolve to 9 month gestation from 71/2 and have brain capacity we have, the fossil record should be overwhelming to support this...its not because it didn't happen. It's alright to be wrong, in science you should be used to it by now.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:33 PM
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MSM at its finest. All we need now is for the pope to come out and say its true, the virgin mary is the savior and man evolved from earlier species related to chimps...Should be by the end of the year.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Like any theory, it's just a guess to draw things together and provide predictability. I think it has proven pretty useful thus far.

Two things I scratch my head over:

1. The timeline required for organisms to change. I think it can be very quick if circumstances dictate.

2. Only random mutations provide new direction for a species. I wish to heck I could remember what show on Discovery I watched but some scientists are demonstrating our environment can effect our DNA and that effect is indeed passed on to our off spring. Not long term but with in a generation or two. I am more willing to buy off that both provide an advantage to the species.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by MentalData
 



Science is almost always wrong,

Sorry, but that's the funniest thing I've read all day.
Thanks for that.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by Jimjolnir
 



Thank you!
Do you know, has anyone studied the possibilty that humans may have evolved a whole lot earlier then is assumed?


Yea I think that is a possibility, but so is outside interaction from E.T.'s. ET's could be the outside factor that could explain one of the gaps, although this is widely unaccepted because of the fact that we haven't found any evidence of intelligent life outside of humans, or so we think.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by ZeroUnlmtd
 


Yes but there is tons of evidence on EVOLUTION. Just going to say now so we can all make it incredibly clear.
EVOLUTION IS A FACT. The theory that the whole diversity of life arose out of evolution is a THEORY. These are two SEPARATE things. Its been PROVEN that things evolve, that adaptations are made, and mutations, this isn't a theory, this is actually happening. Now going on to say that this evolved from this or that, or xy or z is a theory. But to say that evolution doesn't exist is just nonsense.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You're stating opinions, and not facts, thus spreading ignorance.

Please stop.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by Evil_Santa
 




You're stating opinions, and not facts, thus spreading ignorance.
Please stop


I was stating neither. Just giving an account of my experience talking with ToE proponents.



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