French senate backs Armenia genocide bill

It might not look like it but this law is just an attack on freedom of speech .

Originally posted by totalperdition
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Even though I am French, my heritage has no basis on my concern over the situation and it's ignorant of you to say so.

How is that ignorant? (ad hominem attack). I never said anything, I simply asked some questions. If I wanted to say so I would have written something like this...

Unless you're French and/or live in France, then this does not affect you.
If it doesn't affect you, then you should not care.
If it's not your country and you do not live under its law, then you should not care.
You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are French and/or live in France, then it doesn't matter.
It's their country, culture, morals, values and laws and unless you're French and/or live there then it doesn't matter.

Besides, heritage has a lot to do with how concerned a person would be over this new law. Maybe not for you but certainly for me and I would imagine for many others as well. Lets not use the word heritage though, I believe nationality would be more appropriate here. Since the word nationality is used to identify with a certain nation.

There are many laws from around the world that don't affect me but they affect my fellow humans. The country where I live is also coming up with similar laws so if we don't stand up and stop these thought control goons it will be happening in our backyard before you know it.

Yes, the country where YOU live. Not my place to judge your country or its laws.

Forgive me if Im wrong but I'm assuming that you're American. How would you feel of it became against the law to mention the American slaughter of innocents in their recent bloody 10 year war campaign? Or how would you feel if it became illegal to question the OS of 911?

Keep in mind that the questions above are purely hypothetical (at least for now). I treasure my first ammendment right as a U.S. citizen. I would probably die a little inside if that right were taken away from my fellow citizens and I. It is our responsibility to stand up for our rights and hold our politicians and government accountable if they choose to infringe upon them.

That being said, I could care less about the opinions of other people, who are not of United States nationality, IN REGARDS TO DOMESTIC U.S. LAW. Their opinions would mean nothing, our domestic laws do not affect them. For instance, hate speech here in the United States is protected to some extent. Although I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, I would never wan't the right of any U.S. citizen to freely express their thoughts, ideas and opinions to be taken away from them. YES, EVEN IF IT INCLUDES HATE SPEECH. Now in France hate speech has pretty much been outlawed completely. So how do the French feel about the protection of hate speech here in the United States? Frankly I could care less, not their country not their place to question our laws and not their responsibility. They may have their opinions, but so what? They don't live here and are not affected by our laws.

In Germany you're not allowed to question the holocaust and France will no longer allow you to question the Armenian genocide. If you don't see a problem with this then you must enjoy your enslavement.

Now, now, you just relax and let ME worry about my country. We still have the right to bear arms remember?

First off it wasn't an ad hom attack. It was an observation pertaining to the sequence of questions you asked. On top of that, I answered your questions. Your comment clearly stated if that if don't live in France this law should not concern me as it cannot affect me. Have you ever heard of tourism? If someone decides to visit France and deny the Armenian genocide, they might risk prosecution if this law is finalized.

I would expect laws like this in Iran, Israel, Russia...etc, but I would never expect this in France.

Also, considering that I live a few minutes from the border, and have lived in "your country" for several years, I'm allowed to share my very informed opinion which is based on factual logic.

Your comments so far a perfect example of American Exceptionalism where your policies affect the whole world but get offended when people who are affected by these policies speak their mind.

I bet if you had your way you would make it a crime for foreigners to speak their mind huh? Perhaps have the DOJ order the arrest of people from other countries who voice their displeasure of certain policies. Keep on rocking in a free world bro...

Here is a great Canadian who says it much better than I do:

Whoops, was trying to add to the above post.

I don't want to trivialise these killings, but where do we stop?

Here's an interesting, and disturbing, article detailing quite a few 'genocides' that have occured over throughout the years.

It doesn't make pleasant reading and just shows the depths that all mankind can go to....seems to me that singling one individual nation out for particular attention is pretty unfair.

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm no Christian...but "Let he without sin....." certainly springs to mind.

reply to post by Freeborn


I believe that if France is going to pass a law that forbids denial of the Armenian genocide, they should outlaw the denial of anything. I don't support this but as you said it's not fair to single out any group so they should all be treated equally.

The implementation of the hypothetical scenario I mentioned would be complete thought control, sadly, we're really not that far away from this happening. I find this to be quite the eye opener, and it's all happening so fast. I'm sure that France doesn't care if people deny the Rwandan genocide, or the current ones happening in Sudan and other places.

This decision of theirs is clearly politically motivated IMO.

I hope this doesn't seem too far off topic, but The_Professional just opened a thread on an American case that shares some similarities in the fact that they are conditioning us to expect complete control of how how we think, talk, act...

Judge orders woman to give up password to hard drive

This crap is happening all over the "free world" including U.S.A., Canada, UK...not just in France and other world dictatorships.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Is that a fact?

Yes it's a fact, you must have missed this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Get your facts straight before you post Sonny.

Sometimes you argue over the most insignificant things

First I ASKED a Question.

Second,your link states this....................

Particularly deplorable has been the longtime reluctance of some leading Jewish organizations

Key word is "some",but you make it sound like EVERY Jew on the Planet is playing into your equation.

Every Jew is NOT a Zionist.

We DO know this as to be an Opinion, as Jews follow Judaism,also.

I don't see how its insignificant lumping EVERY Jew Into your personal equation.

There are Jews that recognize it.

reply to post by sonnny1

Key word is "some"

Yes, the key word is "some" as my source clearly indicates, please point out where I said "all".

but you make it sound like EVERY Jew on the Planet is playing into your equation.

No.

Now your just making things up trying to save some face, it's not working very well BTW.

Every Jew is NOT a Zionist.

No kidding Sonny, I agree. Once again your putting words that I never said into my mouth. I am quite adamant about pointing out that when I say Zionists I do not mean all Jews, now you're just grasping at straws man.

You have seen enough of my posts to know that I don't consider all Jews to be Zionists, if you don't believe me you can check my post history. Not that I care about your misdirected assumptions though, I just thought I would clear up the BS floating in the air since you left it pretty thick in your last post.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed



Hey Turkey, the genocide happened, you did it, now get over it!

Hey France, this law is stupid, now smarten up!

Agree.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Then WHY didnt you state that in the Original?

I wouldnt have asked if you did.

Edit to add: I see lots of people on ATS lumping people with groups.

I meant no offense assuming you were doing it also.

Usually presenting both sides helps .

reply to post by sonnny1


It looks like we had a simple misunderstanding and I thank you for taking the time to clarify

Sometimes I get a bit concerned if I feel that my words have been misinterpreted which is what just happened a minute ago. Even though we don't always agree, you're usually interesting to debate with which is why I was kind of surprised when you understood my post in the wrong context, no worries though as these things happen.

You're correct people do tend to lump people in groups, and I thought I was quite clear, but there was one post of mine on the first page where I could have been a bit more clear which left room for my post to be generalized.

I personally try not to lump people in groups because that is not a good way to approach a situation.

Cheers.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

First off it wasn't an ad hom attack. It was an observation pertaining to the sequence of questions you asked. On top of that, I answered your questions. Your comment clearly stated if that if don't live in France this law should not concern me as it cannot affect me. Have you ever heard of tourism? If someone decides to visit France and deny the Armenian genocide, they might risk prosecution if this law is finalized.

If I were to visit another country I would respect its laws and abide by them. On a side note I HAVE visted other countries and HAVE respected and abided by their laws. If you don't agree with the laws, then you don't have to visit the country. Plus, I make sure to have legal representation before going to other countries precisely because of this. On top of that, I actually research the country's culture, people, their morals, values, laws and beliefs (their society) before I visit.

Also, considering that I live a few minutes from the border, and have lived in "your country" for several years, I'm allowed to share my very informed opinion which is based on factual logic

Never said you weren't allowed to share your opinion even if the laws of another country affect you or not. You inferred that. What's with the "your country" business? Damn straight it's my country.

Your comments so far a perfect example of American Exceptionalism where your policies affect the whole world but get offended when people who are affected by these policies speak their mind.

Actually my friend, it's YOUR comments that are a perfect example of American exceptionalism. My stance is that we should respect the laws of other countries. That we shouldn't apply the cultural, moral and societal values of our country on another country. That it's not our place to do so since we don't live in said country or are a citizen of said country. This is exactly what you are doing.

On a side note, there is no such thing as American exceptionalism. This was a post world war II idea, since the United States was doing so much better econmomically than pretty much every other country at the time. However, most Americans fail to notice that our economic boom was not due to exceptionalism, it was due to the fact that all the other countries in the post world war II era were still recovering and rebuilding from the war. We just had a head start since our country and its infrastructure was still intact (don't even get me started on project paper clip).

I bet if you had your way you would make it a crime for foreigners to speak their mind huh? Perhaps have the DOJ order the arrest of people from other countries who voice their displeasure of certain policies. Keep on rocking in a free world bro...

DUDE? Where the heck are you getting this? You don't know me well enough to say this. Why would I wan't our DOJ involved in another country's business? If you are trying to allude to the NDAA (which I get the feeling you are) then let me make it clear to you that I do not support it and believe that it should be repealed. However, I didn't come here to debate that, there are plenty of other threads here on ATS where you can comment on the NDAA. You got your problems in Canada and we got ours here in the US.

It has become clearly apparent to me that you did not read my previous replies. If you DID read my previous replies then you're obviously blinded by your emotions and refuse to understand or consider what I have written. From the above comment that you made, you have clearly inferred things about my character that are simply not true. In fact my previous replies make it clear that your inferrences are not true, yet did you read them? Did you understand them? Or were you just blinded by your emotions?

It's not worth debating this with you, you are too irrational.

Here is a great Canadian who says it much better than I do:

Dude you're only perpetuating the stereotype that Canada is stuck in the 80's. JK.

reply to post by totalperdition


So what exactly is your point? Should people not criticise the policies in other countries, if they disagree with them? Should they not argue and agitate against them (within legal means), just because it is not their country and culture? Is it not their right to do so? If so, then I disagree with you strongly. Such apathy is a destructive force for humanity.

Or are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?

As for the OP, the law is stupid and an attack on free speech, even tough the genocide happened. We have similar law against holocaust here in Slovakia, and I disagree with it, too.

reply to post by Maslo


Then we disagree and have reached an impasse.

Perhaps we will agree on other things, time will tell.