French senate backs Armenia genocide bill

French senate backs Armenia genocide bill

www.reuters.com

France's upper house of parliament approved a bill on Monday that would make it a criminal offence to deny genocide, legislation that has caused tension between Paris and Ankara.

The bill, which was approved by the lower house in December, has triggered outrage in Turkey as it would include the 1915 mass killing of Armenians in Ottomon Turkey.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I'm not a supporter of genocide denial but it shouldn't be against the law. This is as bad as German laws about holocaust denial or the law Israel is trying to create that would make it illegal to compare them to the Nazis.

France is supposed to be part of the free world so they should not be passing this type of law. They are probably doing this to anger the Turks as they since there is some bad blood between Turkey and many Euro nations. Plus we all know Turkey hates to have this genocide of theirs to get any attention.

Hey Turkey, the genocide happened, you did it, now get over it!

Hey France, this law is stupid, now smarten up!

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

The jews are getting it their way. France is owned by the sionists.

reply to post by Sorgmodig


I'm not sure if I understand your comment.

The Zionists don't like the Armenian genocide to get mentioned so this law would steal some attention from the holocaust. This law allows the acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide just not denial. Zionist organizations have been very clear in their displeasure about the recent attention the Armenian genocide has been getting.

Particularly deplorable has been the longtime reluctance of some leading Jewish organizations, including the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee, and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, to call the first genocide of the 20th century by its proper name. When Andrew Tarsy, the New England director of the ADL, came out last week in support of a congressional resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide, he was promptly fired by the national organization. Shaken by the uproar that followed, the ADL finally backed down. The murder of a million Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Turks in 1915, it acknowledged yesterday, was "indeed tantamount to genocide."

www.boston.com...

Turkey does not seem very happy about this:

In the first reaction from Ankara, Justice Minister Sadullah Ergin condemned the bill.

"The decision made by the Senate is a great injustice and shows total lack of respect for Turkey," he told the CNN-Turk television channel.

The Turkish embassy in Paris warned that if President Sarkozy approved the bill, the damage done to relations between the two countries would be permanent.

"France is in the process of losing a strategic partner," Turkish embassy spokesman, Engin Solakoglu, told AFP news agency.

Armenia described the vote as "historic".

"This day will be written in gold not only in the history of friendship between the Armenian and French peoples, but also in the annals of the history of the protection of human rights worldwide," said Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian, in a statement carried by AFP.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Unless you're French and/or live in France, how does this affect you?
If it doesn't affect you, then why do you care?
If it's not your country and you do not live under its law, why do you care?
You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are French and/or live in France, so what?
It's their country, culture, morals, values and laws and unless you're French and/or live there then what?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
\

The Zionists don't like the Armenian genocide to get mentioned so this law would steal some attention from the holocaust.

People fighting for the right to cry highest atrocity count?

Is that a fact?

reply to post by sonnny1


No, just people fighting to have historical atrocities recognized.

Originally posted by totalperdition
reply to post by sonnny1

 

No, just people fighting to have historical atrocities recognized.

I can buy that.

but then what of this statement?

The Zionists don't like the Armenian genocide to get mentioned so this law would steal some attention from the holocaust.

Is this OPINION?

or FACT?

reply to post by sonnny1


I don't presume to know if it's opinion or fact. If it's opinion then I could care less. If it's fact then it is truly sad. Regardless, I don't believe what happened to the Armenians was worse than what happened to the Jews or vice versa. It's not about the numbers, it's about recognizing such atrocities lest they are repeated.

If it were about body count then the Native Americans would win hands down.

I don't understand this.

Obviously a barbaric atrocity took place and no-one can condone the slaughter of up to 1,5million people but to make it illegal to deny it or even contend the extent of the killings is simply wrong and contrary to the very ethics of free speech.

Will this be the thin end of the wedge?
What future legislation will follow if this goes ahead uncontended?

And I'm confused to the purpose.
Approximately 500,000 Armenians live in France, but if it has been done to appease them it has come at a costly price as French companies now have no chance of gaining the contracts to build nuclear power stations in Turkey and new planes for the Turkish state airline.

www.bbc.co.uk...

And whilst not wishing to trivialise the killings, I doubt that it's unique and requires it's own specific legislation.
What is so special about Armenia?
What about all the deaths that resulted from Spanish colonialism?
Or that of any other nation?
Knowing human history and nature I'm ashamed to say that I'm sure there are plenty of other instances of similar 'genocide'.

Alienate a fellow NATO member and a much needed Muslim ally just to gain an extra 500,000 votes, seems strange to me.
Is Sarkhozy that desperate that he'll put personal gain ahead of national interest?

reply to post by totalperdition

Unless you're French and/or live in France, how does this affect you?
If it doesn't affect you, then why do you care?
If it's not your country and you do not live under its law, why do you care?
You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are French and/or live in France, so what?
It's their country, culture, morals, values and laws and unless you're French and/or live there then what?

So no-one has the right to comment on affairs that happen anywhere in the world other than in their own country?
That's quite an insular take on the world.
The world is getting 'smaller' and we are all citizens of this earth.
Sure I agree that we have no right to dictate policy, but we have every right to have an opinion and to express it.

And why do you care if anyone else cares?
Does it affect you?

reply to post by Freeborn


Never said no one has a right to comment, you inferred that.

Insular take on the world? You inferred that too. This implies that I could care less about what happens in the rest of the world, yet I'm a member of this site. This is a French issue, not my issue the way I see it. My opinion means nothing regarding France and French law, I won't deny that or believe/pretend that it does.

We are citizens of this Earth. This is true. However, we do not yet live in a homogeneous society where we share the same values, morals, culture or beliefs. We do not live in a world where we are governed by a single governing organization. The world is getting smaller in an economic sense. In a societal sense, it is still huge.

Right to have and express an opinion? Agreed, never said you didn't. In fact I said you were entitled to it.

Why do I care if anyone else cares? You agree that we have no right to dictate policy (I applaude you for this, not everone sees it this way). More often than not, nowadays opinion rather than fact dictates policy. A dangerous road in my opinion.

Does it affect me? *Doesn't take the bait*

reply to post by sonnny1

Is that a fact?

Yes it's a fact, you must have missed this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Get your facts straight before you post Sonny.

Sometimes you argue over the most insignificant things

reply to post by totalperdition


Even though I am French, my heritage has no basis on my concern over the situation and it's ignorant of you to say so.

There are many laws from around the world that don't affect me but they affect my fellow humans. The country where I live is also coming up with similar laws so if we don't stand up and stop these thought control goons it will be happening in our backyard before you know it.

Forgive me if Im wrong but I'm assuming that you're American. How would you feel of it became against the law to mention the American slaughter of innocents in their recent bloody 10 year war campaign? Or how would you feel if it became illegal to question the OS of 911?

In Germany you're not allowed to question the holocaust and France will no longer allow you to question the Armenian genocide. If you don't see a problem with this then you must enjoy your enslavement.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Even though I am French, my heritage has no basis on my concern over the situation and it's ignorant of you to say so.

How is that ignorant? (ad hominem attack). I never said anything, I simply asked some questions. If I wanted to say so I would have written something like this...

Unless you're French and/or live in France, then this does not affect you.
If it doesn't affect you, then you should not care.
If it's not your country and you do not live under its law, then you should not care.
You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are French and/or live in France, then it doesn't matter.
It's their country, culture, morals, values and laws and unless you're French and/or live there then it doesn't matter.

Besides, heritage has a lot to do with how concerned a person would be over this new law. Maybe not for you but certainly for me and I would imagine for many others as well. Lets not use the word heritage though, I believe nationality would be more appropriate here. Since the word nationality is used to identify with a certain nation.

There are many laws from around the world that don't affect me but they affect my fellow humans. The country where I live is also coming up with similar laws so if we don't stand up and stop these thought control goons it will be happening in our backyard before you know it.

Yes, the country where YOU live. Not my place to judge your country or its laws.

Forgive me if Im wrong but I'm assuming that you're American. How would you feel of it became against the law to mention the American slaughter of innocents in their recent bloody 10 year war campaign? Or how would you feel if it became illegal to question the OS of 911?

Keep in mind that the questions above are purely hypothetical (at least for now). I treasure my first ammendment right as a U.S. citizen. I would probably die a little inside if that right were taken away from my fellow citizens and I. It is our responsibility to stand up for our rights and hold our politicians and government accountable if they choose to infringe upon them.

That being said, I could care less about the opinions of other people, who are not of United States nationality, IN REGARDS TO DOMESTIC U.S. LAW. Their opinions would mean nothing, our domestic laws do not affect them. For instance, hate speech here in the United States is protected to some extent. Although I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, I would never wan't the right of any U.S. citizen to freely express their thoughts, ideas and opinions to be taken away from them. YES, EVEN IF IT INCLUDES HATE SPEECH. Now in France hate speech has pretty much been outlawed completely. So how do the French feel about the protection of hate speech here in the United States? Frankly I could care less, not their country not their place to question our laws and not their responsibility. They may have their opinions, but so what? They don't live here and are not affected by our laws.

In Germany you're not allowed to question the holocaust and France will no longer allow you to question the Armenian genocide. If you don't see a problem with this then you must enjoy your enslavement.

Now, now, you just relax and let ME worry about my country. We still have the right to bear arms remember?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


It DID in fact happen because my grandfather was there fighting the Ottomans!

For once, France got something right

Now for Israel and the rest of us.....yes, we should do likewise and acknowledge the Armenian Genocide!

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Actually, a majority of Israel do in fact identify with the Armenian Genocide but the Knesset won't pass it

reply to post by bluemirage5


That's because not all Jews are Zionistic in nature and are able to sympathize with the Armenian genocide. Regrettably, the Knesset are for the most part a bunch of Radical Zionists who misrepresent the majority of the inhabitants of Israel/Palestine.

There are various incidents of Armenian Genocide memorials in Europe that have been vandalized yet we rarely hear about them, yet we hear a lot about the Jewish holocaust memorials that have been defaced.

Some Jews have a nasty habit of hoaxing hate crimes including defacing their own memorials so what would stop the same extremists from trying to frame Armenians for these crimes?

Jewish Man Arrested for String of Anti-Semitic Hate Crimes

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not saying Jews deface all Armenian genocide memorials, I'm just pointing out some possibilities. It's amazing how off topic a thread can get when a member asks a silly question that was clearly answered in the exact same post they responded to. Oh well, I guess this happens if a member only reads a portion of a post before they respond to it.

Don't worry Blue, it wasn't you who asked the question that led us here. So it's not you who I'm talking about in this last portion of my post.

What many people are afraid of is perhaps just what might be happening.

Laws like this seem to be spreading from country to country.

While this may be justified and good, it does seem to be an agenda.

The average person does not start these efforts, the intellectual community does.

Agendas usually have some kind of financial goal as they use a popular theme.

If this particular law is only supposed to affect people in one country, then why is a pattern developing so widespread ?

Somebody is funding these things, and somebody will somehow profit.

I say we pass laws to acknowledge THAT, and let's identify the financiers and certify their creditability and mental stability.

Scholars have pointed out that countries that specifically ban Holocaust denial generally have legal systems that limit speech in other ways, such as banning hate speech. According to D. Guttenplan, this is a split between the "common law countries of the United States, Ireland and many British Commonwealth countries from the civil law countries of continental Europe and Scotland. In civil law countries the law is generally more proscriptive. Also, under the civil law regime, the judge acts more as an inquisitor, gathering and presenting evidence as well as interpreting it".[2] Michael Whine argues that Holocaust denial can inspire violence against Jews; he states, "Jews' experience in the post-World War II era suggests that their rights are best protected in open and tolerant democracies that actively prosecute all forms of racial and religious hatred."[3]

Laws against Holocaust denial

Laws Cost Big Money

Somebody Always Gets Rich For A Cause

Suppressive Laws Always Lead to More Suppression