Jehovah, Jesus and Michael. What do they have in common?

I stumbled off into something that i must say has overwhelmed me and perhaps maybe i am in way over my head. I watched a video that i shall link HERE by professor Walter J Veith about the battle of the giants, dealing with Revelation. Starting around 0:37:00 he goes into talking about Jesus and Michael being the one and the same, that Michael was "the angel of the LORD", which i had often thought reading the old testament was the pre-incarnate / pre-human form of Christ. It's a fascinating subject to say the least but, could it be that Michael was Christ's proto-form?

In the ancient hebrew language names had meaning, often prophetic in nature. In Hebrew the name Michael (Mee-kah-el) means "who is God-like". Well what man in all biblical history was God-like? Who was called Immanu'el which means God in the flesh/ God with us/God in person? Jesus the Christ.

If you wish to find the meaning of names you can find a search engine HERE.

We all know that there is only One God but that he has 3 aspects to him we call Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Is it possible that the Father is Jehovah, Jesus the Son and Michael is the Holy Spirit? We know the Holy Spirit is a male, could his name be Michael? I know this steps off into Jehovah's Witness territory but i thought the prospect was well worth exploring and might bring about an interesting discussion. Thoughts on this subject?

[Stay on topic please, troll posts decrying the existence of God will be ignored, this is a discussion on possiblity of the nature of Christ's pre-form before his earthly ministry]

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


It's Jesus and Lucifer who have similarities. We don't know enough about Michael to speak of him. It works like this.

God is god. An angel is an angel. God is not an angel. An angel is not a god.


If you can't do religion without putting it in a blender to see what comes out, just throw it away. It's no good to mix it all up.

Michael....Hmmm I have read, was more like this -Who is like God? as a question, that has only one answer=God.

Michael stands up according to Daniel and then goes to war for the Israelite nation. The war in space to cast Satan to Earth where he chases the woman who gave birth to the man child, (Rev 12=Saturn conjuncts Virgo on 11.11.11)

Jesus comes back and is the rescuer of Israel at the 2nd to last war ie Their Messiah.

Logic dictates they are not the same person.

Been there, done that, got the tshirt.
But it is fun and what we are supposed to be doing -meditating on the Word and finding out its meaning..s!

Peace

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Several references to the Holy Spirit imply female gender in the language, but there is nothing that is explicit because there are several that imply the masculine and many more that are neutral.

Also, the Spirit is usually the "unnamed servant".

I find: "If in doubt, don't!" but thanks for posting, made me think.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Hi ...I cant comment on what you are asking as I have never noticed that it could be so .. I wanted to give you a link you may be intrested in ... www.blueletterbible.org... you may find some tools on that link to help ....peace

Yeah, I think Walter Veith puts together a very good argument for this case that Micheal and Jesus are in fact the same...I would encourage anyone to watch material by Veith. OP have you watched any other material by Veith before perhaps other vids in his 'Total Onslaught series' or elsewhere, if so what did you think of these .

Micheal, 'the one who is what God is' and the arch angel reference of not only meaning highest angel but also highest message which is Jesus himself. The most convincing point is that his same Arch angel was the one who said to Moses when he talked to him through the burning bush that he was on holy ground right, seeing that no created being is to be worshiped this puts a strong case out there that Michael is in fact Jesus.

Well one thing to consider is that Lucifer was created as the highest angel in heaven and you would think that if he was to battle against any other angel then Lucifer would win so Michael must be above all the created beings of heaven as well.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


That's heresy. Angels are created beings, Michael was created by Jesus Christ. He is just an archangel.

Check out Genesis 18. That is a pre-incarnate appearance of God's Son. Joshua 5 is another one. He was in the fiery furnace Daniel's three friends. He wrestled with Jacob. Then in the NT, Jesus says that His Father is a Spirit and no man had seen Him at any time. So which "LORD" were these people encountering in the OT that were YHWH?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Is it possible that the Father is Jehovah, Jesus the Son and Michael is the Holy Spirit?

Michael is not the Holy Spirit. He is an archangel over all of the soldiers. There are more higher than him.
God - Jesus - (Another) (Also, Father's 7 spirits)
The Arc
Michael (There are 6 other archs on his same level, and then 17 other archangels.) Then one more who doesn't stay in heaven, he stays on common ground.

This reference can be found in Revelations, but revelations calls them the elders and not archangels.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Just read the bible as though it were a novel and don't worry about what's what. When you twist it up and make the wrong connections, then the bible is not good for your mentality. But if you just read it as it were a novel, it tends to unravel itself over time.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Actually in hebrew the name Michael means "Who is like God?" as in a question not a statement. It's a reference to Gods' Glory and Magesty like asking 'Who is as Great as God?'.

In response to your inquiry as to whether or not the Archangel Michael and The Son of God Jesus Christ (Yeshua) are the same person I believe not. There are many Biblical Scriptures both in the OT and the NT (with several references in books and scrolls that aren't included in our version of Biblical Scripture) that differentiate the Michael and Jesus personas. If they were the same person in fact then Scripture wouldn't differentiate them.

Many Biblical scholars believe however that the OT persona of Melchizedek (litterally meaning "My King is Righteousness") King of Salem ("King of Peace") whom Abraham gave a tithe to was in fact an incarnation of Jesus the Son of God. Perhaps you should look into that. It's quite a interesting story.

Originally posted by Magnificient
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Just read the bible as though it were a novel and don't worry about what's what. When you twist it up and make the wrong connections, then the bible is not good for your mentality. But if you just read it as it were a novel, it tends to unravel itself over time.

LOL, no thanks. The Bible is certainly not another novel.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
Yeah, I think Walter Veith puts together a very good argument for this case that Micheal and Jesus are in fact the same...I would encourage anyone to watch material by Veith. OP have you watched any other material by Veith before perhaps other vids in his 'Total Onslaught series' or elsewhere, if so what did you think of these .

Micheal, 'the one who is what God is' and the arch angel reference of not only meaning highest angel but also highest message which is Jesus himself. The most convincing point is that his same Arch angel was the one who said to Moses when he talked to him through the burning bush that he was on holy ground right, seeing that no created being is to be worshiped this puts a strong case out there that Michael is in fact Jesus.

Well one thing to consider is that Lucifer was created as the highest angel in heaven and you would think that if he was to battle against any other angel then Lucifer would win so Michael must be above all the created beings of heaven as well.

Yeah i watched several of his videos, they are very informative. Including that the real sabbath is saturday and not sunday and that the Roman Catholic Church changed saturday worship to sunday around the 1600's.

I don't really know if Jesus was Michael, but i know Jesus is the savior and Messiah and thats the important thing to me, but it is possible he was Michael as his pre-form. When reading the bible i did notice the references of Michael being referred to as "the Angel of the LORD" which would make him the "messenger of Yah" and there's only one true messenger of Yah and that was Jesus. Yeah that didn't fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

He mentioned the fact that protestants in John Wycliffe's time and Martin Luther's Time when if you had asked them who the anti-christ was they would have pointed directly at the Roman Catholic Church, yet now that has for some reason become clouded.

There's no doubt left in me now as to the identity of the whore of babylon. Professor Veith shows things to you in such a simple way that indeed the very elect have been fooled, we have been fooled because we're expecting some diabolical master plan, when that plan was as simple as hiding things within our plain sight using secret socieities and secret symbols. Lucifer is all around us, i feel like i'm bogged down in quicksand surrounded by him and i want to rip my flesh off because he is everywhere and i can't get away.

Michael is an old name, and one of Jesus' promises is to write on us his new name. He also promises to write on us the name of his God and the name of the city of his God, but neither of these are mentioned to be "new".

We also get a new name, written on a white stone - known only to those who receive it.

These are all a part of the revelations of Jesus, along with receiving hidden manna etc.

So either ya know his new name or ya don't.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
I did a little searching and this is what I came up with ..hope it helps
Dan 10:2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks:
Dan 10:3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine into my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three full weeks were fulfilled.

Dan 10:11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, thou man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright; for unto thee am I now sent

Dan 10:12 And he said unto me, Fear not, Daniel; for from the first day that thou didst set thy heart to understand, and to humble thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come because of thy words.
(The messenger is sent the first day of Daniels prayer ) (The prince of the kingdom of Persia could be another Angel )..

Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;( could the chief prince Micheal one of many be a ranking angel?) and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:14 And I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people at the end of the days: for the vision is yet for many days.

Dan 10:20 And he said, Knowest thou wherefore I am come unto thee? And now I return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I go forth, behold, the prince of Greece shall come.
Dan 10:21 However, I will declare unto thee that which is set down in the scripture of truth; and there is not one that sheweth himself strong with me against these, but Michael your prince. peace

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

That's heresy. Angels are created beings, Michael was created by Jesus Christ. He is just an archangel.

Check out Genesis 18. That is a pre-incarnate appearance of God's Son. Joshua 5 is another one. He was in the fiery furnace Daniel's three friends. He wrestled with Jacob. Then in the NT, Jesus says that His Father is a Spirit and no man had seen Him at any time. So which "LORD" were these people encountering in the OT that were YHWH?

I didn't say i believed Jesus was Michael, i was asking about the possiblity if he was.

Yes genesis 18 is interesting. It says the LORD appeared to abraham and then shifts to saying there were 3 men standing nearby, yet abraham seems to address all 3 as if they were all the LORD. At least this is the impression i am getting.

I always thought the angel of the Lord was Jesus in his pre-incarnate form, the same that wrestled with Jacob and caused him to limp.

Not much is said on Michael himself.

reply to post by I Want To Believe



Once again, you need to forget religion. If it's a problem for you, it's not worth messing with. You'll have plenty of problems without religion. I promise.

reply to post by Magnificient


I've no idea what you are talking about. I do however know that this is in fact the RELIGION forum on ATS so it does make it somewhat difficult to forget about religion since it is the subject so therefore your comment is nonsensical.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

We all know that there is only One God but that he has 3 aspects to him we call Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

No.
"We" don't know that.
You think that but you are wrong.
You have a heretical aberrant view where you do not believe in the trinity.
The orthodox Christian doctrine of Trinity, which all normal Christian churches subscribe to, includes three separate persons, not one person showing a different face from time to time.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


I apologize. I attributed that post to you by mistake.

God is appreciation. That is all they need to know. Names do not matter and it doesn't matter if Jesus and him were the same.