9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by weedwhacker However, when pressed, ULTIMA doesn't dismiss the idea that AAL 77 hit the Pentagon.....he just continues to say (there is no evidence to confirm) that AAL 77 hit the Pentagon. Done here.....jfj123, Del....have we rested our case yet??

Why do people state for a fact that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon whan i have proven time and time again that most of the actual evidence has not been released yet?

You have been shown that to be a fallacious argument. One does not need "official reports" to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon. Repeating a fallacy does not make a fallacy true.

If we went to court and you presented a case that flight 77 hit the Pentagon using the information you have now you would probably be laughed out of court.

You have shown repeatedly that your unsupported assertion is a red herring. First, a court is not involved. Second, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case nor what position an attorney would take. Third, you are unable to tell us what the statements of hundreds of eyewitnesses are. You have been reminded of these facts repeatedly.

So i rest my case that the there is no evidence that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Until we have more evidnece.

Your premises are false. You have already been shown they are false. Your conclusion is false. All you are doing is repeating the same fallacies over and over.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by _Del_ Please do.

Gee and people talk about my short responeses. So you do agree that there is not enough evidence to prove in court that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? [edit on 30-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Irrelevant. Courts are not involved.

Originally posted by jthomas You have been shown that to be a fallacious argument. One does not need "official reports" to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

Yes we do need the reports becasue we have no evidence. Just becasue you think there is does not make it true.

Third, you are unable to tell us what the statements of hundreds of eyewitnesses are.

I have already potted the statement from the witness that stated they did not know what hit the Pentagon they were told later it was a 757. I suggest you read post before responding. This statment alone is enough to question all the witness statements anad these statments would not hold up in court, anyone with basic common sense could see that.

Your premises are false. You have already been shown they are false. Your conclusion is false. All you are doing is repeating the same fallacies over and over.

You have failed to provide any real evidnece that flight 77 hit the Pentagon. You just keep repeating the same theories or fantasies over and over with no actual evidence to support them.

Originally posted by jthomas Courts are not involved. Your opinions are getting more illogical and silly. What are the statements of the hundreds of witnesses who saw and/or removed the wreckage from inside the Pentagon

Let me make this as simple as i can, since you seem to have such a hard time understanding it. The evindece and witness statements you claim to have would not hold up in court because 1 you have no real evidence and 2 the witness statments would not hold up in court. Anyone with basic intellignece and common sense would know the witness statments would not hold up in court. [edit on 30-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1 ULTIMA....OK, we've seen this from you so many times, this thing about 'evdience' not holding up in court....are you a lawyer as well as a grease monkey? I mean, besides turning wrenches, did you get a law degree on the side? I know I got all of my law education from watching 'Matlock'....

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 The evindece and witness statements you claim to have would not hold up in court because 1 you have no real evidence and 2 the witness statments would not hold up in court.

ok...by your logic then, there is no God. there is no real evidence that God exists. No witnesses, videos, photos, nothing. So..by your standards, any case saying that there is a God would be thrown out. Correct?

Originally posted by weedwhacker are you a lawyer as well as a grease monkey? I mean, besides turning wrenches, did you get a law degree on the side?

You do not have to be a lawyer to know that when someones admits they (did not see what plane hit and they were told later it was a 757) that this testimony would not hold up in court, its basic common sense. Which also raises the quesiton of how many other witnesses were told later it was a 757. By the way i am graduate of the Federal Law Enforcement training Center and was trained in court room proceedings. I was a federal poloice officer for 12 years.

Originally posted by Disclosed there is no real evidence that God exists. No witnesses, videos, photos, nothing. So..by your standards, any case saying that there is a God would be thrown out.?

This response is off topic, please stay on topic or mod will be notified.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 This response is off topic...

Actually it was made to make a point: You are not a lawyer, and bringing up whether or not any of the Pentagon events would "stand up in court" is irrelevant. This isnt "Law and Order".

reply to post by ULTIMA1 ULTIMA, not to impugn your services.....as a Federal Police Officer you have certainly sat in, and testified, at many court proceedings. That does not, though, make you a lawyer, nor does it make you an expert in the legal process. I think, after 30+ years, and 20,000 hours, while I may not be an 'expert', I believe I have a pretty good grasp of things that are Aviation-related. I have taught people to fly....I have been on my back, washing airplanes. As I've mentioned earlier, I have done (limited) maintenance on small airplanes, under the supervison of a licensed A&P. I've worked the ramp, loading and unloading baggage, emptying the lavatories. (OK, this, all back in my youth....but it's there, doesn't mean I wanted to do it for the rest of my life!!) Best job ever, was airline pilot. Well....actually, the job is rapidly going downhill, thanks to the Internet and so many 'wannabes' who think they know everything, the kind you see on 'YouTube'....kids who can 'fly' MS simulators. Now, with the price of oil going through the roof.....airlines are getting into a bad pile of doo-doo. There will have to be a substantial paradigm shift if they are to survive. I thought, after 9/11.....as terrible as it was, that things would change for the better. Instead, they got worse. Increased 'security'.....just a facade...the DHS, a joke. The TSA? (Thousands Standing Around)....being paid minimum wage.... Sorry for the ranting....they think they're doing good work, but...... The saying goes....."Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"....give a person 'power' over you, and we know where that will lead..... edit to add.....sorry about the formatting.....i used my 'ENTER' key to break the paragraphs, didn't seem to work..... [edit on 5/30/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker That does not, though, make you a lawyer, nor does it make you an expert in the legal process.

As stated and will repeat again and again as long as it takes. You do not have to be a lawyer to see that when someone admits that they were told later what happened that its not going to stand up in court. If its not going to stand up in court then its not good evidnece to show that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Originally posted by Disclosed ok...by your logic then, there is no God. there is no real evidence that God exists. No witnesses, videos, photos, nothing. So..by your standards, any case saying that there is a God would be thrown out. Correct?

He's not only claiming that the case would be thrown out, but that because the case would be thrown out, God can't exist! Burn the witch!!

Originally posted by Disclosed Actually it was made to make a point: You are not a lawyer, and bringing up whether or not any of the Pentagon events would "stand up in court" is irrelevant.

Actually it is relevant becasue it shows the evidence that is out now is not enough to stand up in court to prove that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Originally posted by _Del_ God can't exist! Burn the witch!!

Gee more and more proof that you cannot be adult enough to have a simpe discussion. Thanks for showing what a joke you are. [edit on 30-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 Actually it is relevant becasue it shows the evidence that is out now is not enough to stand up in court to prove that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Matlock, That is your opinion. However, you are not a lawyer, and have never presented a case in court as a lawyer. So, that is just your simple opinion. Seems they have evidence enough in the Moussaoui trial. Remember that trial? Maybe you should have joined their team with all your your "truther" data.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by _Del_ God can't exist! Burn the witch!!

Gee more and more proof that you cannot be adult enough to have a simpe discussion. Thanks for showing what a joke you are. [edit on 30-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

It's refutation by analogy; I'm sorry it showed your fallacy. Thanks again for the personal insult though -- your posts wouldn't be complete without one.

reply to post by ULTIMA1 ULTIMA.....your own posts contradict yourself, do they not? Meaning, you seem to think AAL77 actually hit the Pentagon, but insist that no 'court' would ever find any evidence to support that claim....what, exactly, are you trying to say? I am very confused, could you please state, for the record?? Is it your belief that a B757 hit the pentagon, on the morning of 11 September, 2001? Or, is it your contention that something 'else' caused the damage we all saw, on that day? Please answer this direct question, without any dissembling, or obfuscation. Pull of your research together, and answer this simple question, honestly and openly. I, for one, will not deride nor make fun of you, if you just state your opinion. I can disagree, but I will not make fun. Regards, WW ps....as has been mentioned, 'Opinions are like anuses (OK, I changed the word, since the other one isn't allowed)....."Opinions are like anuses, everyone has one!" edit....spelling.....still despairing about the format problem... [edit on 5/30/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Disclosed That is your opinion. However, you are not a lawyer,

NO its not opinon its simple common sense, that when someone admits they did not see something and was told later that its not going to hold up in court. As an example if a cop ask someone if they saw what happened and they say no they were told what happened the cop is not going to accept it as testimony. (its called hearsay)

Originally posted by weedwhacker Meaning, you seem to think AAL77 actually hit the Pentagon, but insist that no 'court' would ever find any evidence to support that claim....what, exactly, are you trying to say? I am very confused, could you please state, for the record??

1. I do not know if AA77 did or did not hit the Pentagon thats why i am trying to find out. 2. As stated the evidence that we have now would not hold up in court, most of the evidence has not been released. So people that keep stating for a fact that AA 77 did hit the Pentagon are only stating opinions since we do not have the facts.

reply to post by ULTIMA1 dude.....you did not answer my question!!!!!! I asked, what do YOU believe????? A simple question. Here's my answer....I believe, from all of the evidence I've seen, that AAL77 hit the Pentagon. Could I be mistaken? Certainly. Is there an alternate explanation? No evidence that I have seen, yet. So, ULTIMA....what is YOUR opinion? Make a stand, I promise I will not mock you.