Unemployed lady seeks legal advice over human rights issue.

reply to post by blupblup


My fail. Thanks.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
reply to post by blupblup

 

My fail. Thanks.

No worries... most are just wading in due to the sensationalistic headlines without reading the article.
Most just "hear" stuck up woman too good to stack shelves, when that couldn't be any further from reality.

This is the problem with headlines... there's always a real story behind them and it's usually very different.

reply to post by mandroids


Look Its really starting to piss me off, that all these people think that just because they go to college and spend a bunch of money and time on a degree, feel that they are entitled to a job, for life. They should just be set up for life. Well guess what, reality is knocking at the door. You better be dam sure when you get your degree that its actually worth something, or sorry your SOL. Thats just the way it is, we can't just expect that everything is going to work out for us, I know that as kids we are all taught that, all you have to do is go to college, get a degree and your good. Well thats just not true, this lady had a degree in geology, and last time I checked we had plenty of geologists, not shortage or anything like that. People need to realize that our world population is going up, and there going to be more and more competition, but not more and more jobs. As technology increases we are in need of less and less jobs. If your not successful today it is your fault. Simple as that. You were lazy in high school, or you were lazy in college, or your still lazy now. Not my problem, I chose not to be lazy which is why I have a good degree and a good job. I don't feel entitled to the job, I don't feel entitled to anything not even social security. I think we should cut it all, people don't want to be forced into buying health insurance, which is fine with me, but that means if you don't have the money you die on the street. Im okay with that at this point we have way too many people in this world, and 99% of them are complete assholes worrying only about themselves. If I had access to a lever that if pulled would kill all humans everywhere, I would just pull it so the earth can just start over. Humans, with all their carelessness, selfishness, greediness, makes me disgusted and confused to call myself human. I walk around in disgust of most people, and can't even believe that I am the same species

Originally posted by americababy
I would call it capitalist entrenchment. The agenda is perpetuation. Continuity. A capitalist just happens to have more ways to survive. There's nothing saying you can't go out there and be a captalist with the intention of providing a better deal to people.

Not sure how you're defining 'capitalism', I was using it in it's original definition, 'the private ownership of the means of production'. A term first used by the French socialist Louis Blanc to describe the system of private ownership that proceeded feudalism. The are a few things stopping me from being a capitalist, mainly money, but also my morals.

I don't agree with you that the worker should get 100 percent of his work if he is unable to make himself productive.

If the worker is not productive he doesn't make anything. The worker should earn 100% of what he produces, minus overhead of course. There really is no reason for the 'private owner', it's an antiquated system that needs to change. It's the root of our economic problems. You can never make capitalism moral, because there will always be people with the financial means to manipulate society to their advantage. Capitalism allows that accumulation of power to control.

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws. Mayer Amschel Rothschild

In a context where you couldn't buy property I would say you were right. The only context where the inability of a private individual to own land should not exist is one in which the standard of living is above what could ever be had in a capitalist system.
It's a very difficult problem to solve. That's why no one tries to solve it. You have to have the plan that will work. I do think though that you could put me in the middle of a despotic third world country with 100 million dollars and I would have that country producing more than Chna within 15 years.

Most people can't buy property, let's be real here. Even IF everyone could buy property it wouldn't work, who would do the labour if we all owned 'property'. The point of capitalism is making money from the hiring of labour, so you don't have to labour yourself. For capitalism to work there has to be more workers than owners. It is an hierarchical system, an authoritative system. Top down control.

The problem is not that hard to solve, and people have tried, that is why socialism and it's offshoots, anarchism, communism, were created in the 1800's. Problem is capitalists have the power, and have manipulated the populations to see the solution to the problem as a worse problem, which is not true. Capitalism has to protect itself from the 'commoners', otherwise this happens...

The Spanish Revolution (1936)

The state has conditioned the populations to worship their own enslavement.

This is probably the last time i reply to this post, because i am amazed at how many people, just can not see past the wall, and the wall came down a long time ago fellas. Instead of paying the "Unemployed" lady a minimum wage, and giving her a job, they still took your "Tax" money instead and paid for the labour.

The reply about her not paying for education, well i guess her time being there and studying is worth air huh?
I guess the we should all be okay with our future children and now actually, we should all be okay with them being sweatshop workers huh, beat that young child into an audult, BUILD SOME CHARACTER! you serious?

I understand people on benefits that DO NOT WANT TO WORK, that i understand, lazy no, just unwilling to do anythihng, with lazyness comes invention on how to improve the process to make it easier, but you still gotta be willing, and shes not lazy. To take on a Tyrant at the heart of our children, that forces labour in a free country?

60$ a week, instead of a minimum wage, and she still did the work!!! and YOU PAID FOR IT, so what your saying is, let her work for 60$ a week, on YOUR money! instead of being paid by the "MADE IN CHINA" sweatshop owners, a minimum wage which is required by LAW!

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
This is probably the last time i reply to this post, because i am amazed at how many people, just can not see past the wall, and the wall came down a long time ago fellas. Instead of paying the "Unemployed" lady a minimum wage, and giving her a job, they still took your "Tax" money instead and paid for the labour.

The reply about her not paying for education, well i guess her time being there and studying is worth air huh?
I guess the we should all be okay with our future children and now actually, we should all be okay with them being sweatshop workers huh, beat that young child into an audult, BUILD SOME CHARACTER! you serious?

I understand people on benefits that DO NOT WANT TO WORK, that i understand, lazy no, just unwilling to do anythihng, with lazyness comes invention on how to improve the process to make it easier, but you still gotta be willing, and shes not lazy. To take on a Tyrant at the heart of our children, that forces labour in a free country?

60$ a week, instead of a minimum wage, and she still did the work!!! and YOU PAID FOR IT, so what your saying is, let her work for 60$ a week, on YOUR money! instead of being paid by the "MADE IN CHINA" sweatshop owners, a minimum wage which is required by LAW!

I don't think you understand how the real world works, you seem to think we are all entitled as well. Reality check, we aren't entitled to anything, not even to live so get a grasp on it and deal with it. And btw she is lazy, that simple. Shes lazy and she didn't really think about her future, so screw her, her problem now

My sister was in a similar position to this a couple of years ago; virtually no jobs in the area she lived in, applying for as many jobs as she could each week with no success (any jobs, down to scrubbing loos - the JC said there were pushing 100 applicants for even the worst jobs in the area), and was then forced into an unpaid position for a month as 'work experience'. Despite everything going well and making a great impression, at the end of the stint she was told there simply wasn't a paid position available. The cost of her transport back and forth to the place (cheapest option) resulted in her having under £10 a week to live on - which lead to family having to bail her out over the month just so she could survive.

This system is being abused (if not intentionally arranged) by companies and the govt. to create a slave labour class under the guise of 'helping people into work'. Yes you could argue that they're working for their benefits, but then you have to ask - why am I as a taxpayer having my taxes used to pay for someone to work at a private company that should be paying that person directly? If it were a local council or other public service it would be one thing, but not at a shop during the busiest time of the year.

To support Cait Reilly, the fact she was in a volunteer position already should have negated the need for the 'work experience' stint as long as she was still applying for other jobs while volunteering - which is the case here, as she was still able to claim JSA. Stacking shelves is not 'work experience' - less than a days training, tops; working a till is not 'work experience' - hence self-service tills in supermarkets. Do you really think any store would have taken on anyone during the busiest time of the year if the position could not have been filled by a monkey after being shown a five-minute instructional video? [Edit] And how was this to shift into a paid position after the two weeks were up - if a paid position was available, then surely they would have advertised it? There's a job shortage out there, if you hadn't heard. [/Edit]

This is the creation of a state-subsidised, state-directed slave labour class through and through. What people should really be looking into is why the taxpayer is paying for people to work at private, profit-earning companies for any length of time.

reply to post by andersensrm


Alright, screw everyone then, EVERY man for and child for themselfs!!! Our nations wage war on innocent country's and you wanna join that tyrany? wage war against your family and friends, its one planet for crying out loud, one rock, one ocean, we are all brothers and sisters, big family.

Shes taking action for her own LIBERTY, something i guess most of you forgotten, we always have choice, and no were not entitled to anything, i never used those words, but to stand up for your beliefs and right as a human being and individual has absolutely nothing to do with the system. Just because no one has an answer for people in her situation, doesnt mean there isnt one.

I remember being back in highschool, my parents started a divorce and i just didint feel like going into school, the principal sat me down and told me a nice story about how i need to go to a school thats for people who are "STUPID" and "LAZY", i simply said no, he couldnt do anything. No one taught me i have a choice in this world, but at that moment i got it, why would an actual audult, come up to a child and instead of helping, and working with the human being, the first response is to throw IT aside!

The only ones here that think they are entitled to something is you! most of you! just because you pay taxes? she could have been paid, and pay taxes as well, but it was taken away from her. what does money have to with this situation, they are being so open about cheap labour, that you think its part of life? some system to improve on it self?

reality check! they are robbing from you, and you pay a monthly bill for protection, so that no one else will rob from you but them! Most primitive instinct is anger, and waging fights, how does NOT helping you, or your sister, brother, a random person across the seas, improve anything?

What makes you less equal to her, or more ELITE then her? The powers that be have poisnoed their wells and now we must follow a standard to poison our own, im bedazzled by such thoughts of negative impulses, we dont even look at each other as people of earth anymore, everyone is an enemy and a thief, where do you people even get such ideas?

Originally posted by quackers
If the Job Centre offered you a job using your tongue as a rich mans toilet paper you would have to take it. So much money is wasted by these morons and this is a perfect case in point. So there's two voluntary positions open and they want to push her into the irrelevent one? Why are people in this thread moaning about her not taking the short bus job and not moaning about how utterly rediculous it is that thousands of pounds worth of education is being thrown out of the window due to bureaucracy? Some poeple cant see the woods for the trees. Now if she had turned down a paying job then it might be a different story.

edit on 13-1-2012 by quackers because: (no reason given)

No,they wouldnt.

Neither job was specific to her specialist field so at worst they are both irrelevant.

Paid employment may have been available at the end of the two week period, presumably making it a "different story ".

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
Neither job was specific to her specialist field so at worst they are both irrelevant.

Thank goodness somebody finally noticed! I was starting to despair

Let me make 2 valid points. 1, this work will not enhance her chances of finding the work she studied for. In fact, it’s an insult to a graduate. 2, would YOU enjoy being forced into work you knew would make you feel unhappy?

reply to post by mandroids


In this economic climate I am sure that any future potential employer in her field of study would be more than able to see that this young woman accepted employment whilst continuing to interview for something more appropriate. What is interesting about comment number two is that a good majority of people in the work place have jobs that make them unhappy but deal with it like adults because ;

1: They get paid and 2: It is often a means to an end.

Whilst it may not enhance her chances of finding work in her chosen field, it certainly will not hinder it.
In the end, if this woman chooses not to take the job, she is free to do so and accept the consequence of her decision regarding her benefit. I am sure there are 50 other desperate people who interviewed for the job wouldn't mind if she decided not to take the position.

reply to post by ComeFindMe


Except it wasn't. They were assured an interview for a job that never existed outside the rush and not one of them even got offered that interview. Presumably because there was no job. It was the Xmas rush and the JC sent along a load of skint people to clean and stack boxes on the threat that if they didn't they would lose their benefits, simple as that.The only real argument here from a legal standpoint is wether or not withdrawl of benefits amounts to force. I would suggest that it does. If it indeed does then she was forced into employement by coersion which would violate her human rights.

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Alright, screw everyone then, EVERY man for and child for themselfs!!! Our nations wage war on innocent country's and you wanna join that tyrany? wage war against your family and friends, its one planet for crying out loud, one rock, one ocean, we are all brothers and sisters, big family.

Shes taking action for her own LIBERTY, something i guess most of you forgotten, we always have choice, and no were not entitled to anything, i never used those words, but to stand up for your beliefs and right as a human being and individual has absolutely nothing to do with the system. Just because no one has an answer for people in her situation, doesnt mean there isnt one.

I remember being back in highschool, my parents started a divorce and i just didint feel like going into school, the principal sat me down and told me a nice story about how i need to go to a school thats for people who are "STUPID" and "LAZY", i simply said no, he couldnt do anything. No one taught me i have a choice in this world, but at that moment i got it, why would an actual audult, come up to a child and instead of helping, and working with the human being, the first response is to throw IT aside!

The only ones here that think they are entitled to something is you! most of you! just because you pay taxes? she could have been paid, and pay taxes as well, but it was taken away from her. what does money have to with this situation, they are being so open about cheap labour, that you think its part of life? some system to improve on it self?

reality check! they are robbing from you, and you pay a monthly bill for protection, so that no one else will rob from you but them! Most primitive instinct is anger, and waging fights, how does NOT helping you, or your sister, brother, a random person across the seas, improve anything?

What makes you less equal to her, or more ELITE then her? The powers that be have poisnoed their wells and now we must follow a standard to poison our own, im bedazzled by such thoughts of negative impulses, we dont even look at each other as people of earth anymore, everyone is an enemy and a thief, where do you people even get such ideas?

Your dealing with a person you've never dealt with before. No I don't feel entitled to anything, I don't even feel that I or any human being for that matter has the "right" to live. The only thing you have a right to do, that is entitled to you or me, is to think. Thats it. Yea I pay taxes, and all the like, but see I don't look at it as somebody taking my money. Never have. Whatever paycheck I actually get, thats what I get paid, end of story. The money that was taken out for taxes as far as I know never existed. People get pissed off because they're supposed to get paid x amount, and then after taxes they get y amount, but see I just look at it as I get paid y amount. The reason people like this piss me off, is because they just expect people to take care of them. Look of course I want to live in a world where we can be as one, and work together, but it seems that nobody else does, so thats lost in the wind. It will only work if we have cooperation from everyone, but people would rather cheat the system anyway they can, not try or care about their future, because someone else is supposed to take care of it. I could qualify for financial aid, but I don't take it, because I know I can scrape by without it, but anyone else in my situation would take all the handouts they can get, knowing that they don't REALLY need them. Why should I do anything for these people who don't care about anything. All they want is pleasure, they want to do the things they want, without earning them. Well screw that, you didn't end up the place you want because of you, nobody else, sure the system is flawed and biased but everyone is susceptible to that in one way or another, its just something you have to deal with. I choose not to live in a world where you work your ass off, never get anything for it, while the people who just sat their without a care in the world, now realize why they should have cared, and want everyone else to work to keep them comfortable and alive. Well F**K off, move to Africa if you don't like it, there all you have to worry about is somebody cutting off your head, or eating you. Have Fun!

reply to post by quackers


So the real question is: did she sign a contract when joining the workshop group?

I can't say I know anything about how the UK public system works, but I know that people in the US who are doing work experience jobs sign multiple contracts which clearly point out that any pay earned from work experience will be taken from their unemployment or welfare benefit total and issued as a "paycheck". Same amount of money, but the people are paid in an "hours worked" format rather than a "monthly allotment" format.

I wonder?

reply to post by ottobot


Yep, people just do do do, without caring about what they're actually doing, then they find out they should have thought it through first, well you didn't now you learn...

Originally posted by davespanners
Some of the replies here are a little misleading I feel.

The girl in question was NEVER offered paid work in poundland, she was made to leave one voluntary position (working in a museum) to go and work FOR FREE at poundland for 2 weeks in the run up to Christmas
She was told that she would then get an interview for an actual paid position there which never happened.

So she wasn't taken from a voluntary position in order to be given paid work, she was taken from a voluntary position in a job that was actually somewhat relevant to her career goal to work for free in another job that wasn't

I'm not sure when exactly the government started supplying unpaid labour to private companies.

edit on 12-1-2012 by davespanners because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-1-2012 by davespanners because: (no reason given)

Well said people on ATS should read and get the full picture this has been going on for about a year now this cost the tax payer more to do as there are hidden tax breaks and other benefits aswell as slave labour delivered by force , by using under hand tactics like threat of benefit cuts or suspension they are rounding up the poorest in groups and beating up their character and morals for god forbid being poor and unemployed.

they tell them they will lose there house and kids if they refuse to do the UNPAID WORK, because how can they provide all this and much more it would drive most people insane the games they play on them, and this goes on while unemployment goes up , jobs vanishing and food and energy prices soaring. People need to wake up or soon they will be working for free.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by McGinty
I wonder how many great artists and academics who have enhanced society and our species over the years would never have done so if they had instead been forced to work mind numbing jobs because the masses wouldn't support them over the inevitable in-between stages of their worthy pursuits.

Well we always know that the Tories do not want people do better themselves....they have always tried to keep the gap between rich at poor at a huge distance.... they look after their own needs and never protect those in society who need it.

look at the people that their cuts have been targeted at.

Disabled
Pensioners/elderly
Single Parents
Charities
Inner city programs
Police
Teachers
The NHS
Students

Basically the poor, the vulnerable, public services and those who actually need help more than others.


Who doesn't feel the effects

Hmmmm

Bankers....
The rich....
Corporations....

edit on 13/1/12 by blupblup because: (no reason given)

That's a good quote you have.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by XaniMatriX
This is probably the last time i reply to this post, because i am amazed at how many people, just can not see past the wall, and the wall came down a long time ago fellas. Instead of paying the "Unemployed" lady a minimum wage, and giving her a job, they still took your "Tax" money instead and paid for the labour.

The reply about her not paying for education, well i guess her time being there and studying is worth air huh?
I guess the we should all be okay with our future children and now actually, we should all be okay with them being sweatshop workers huh, beat that young child into an audult, BUILD SOME CHARACTER! you serious?

I understand people on benefits that DO NOT WANT TO WORK, that i understand, lazy no, just unwilling to do anythihng, with lazyness comes invention on how to improve the process to make it easier, but you still gotta be willing, and shes not lazy. To take on a Tyrant at the heart of our children, that forces labour in a free country?

60$ a week, instead of a minimum wage, and she still did the work!!! and YOU PAID FOR IT, so what your saying is, let her work for 60$ a week, on YOUR money! instead of being paid by the "MADE IN CHINA" sweatshop owners, a minimum wage which is required by LAW!

I don't think you understand how the real world works, you seem to think we are all entitled as well. Reality check, we aren't entitled to anything, not even to live so get a grasp on it and deal with it. And btw she is lazy, that simple. Shes lazy and she didn't really think about her future, so screw her, her problem now

In our current system her suffering is needed for it to work right. It motivates people to make less mistakes. It's not ideal but it's the way it is.

Originally posted by mandroids
Let me make 2 valid points.

1, this work will not enhance her chances of finding the work she studied for. In fact, it’s an insult to a graduate.

2, would YOU enjoy being forced into work you knew would make you feel unhappy?

Isn’t that what ATS is all about…rights? Please refrain from tabloid ‘she gotta work’ posts.

Getting a degree doesn't give you to a "right" to a job in that field. That reminds me of how a spoiled child would think: "I want it so give it to me!" You picked the degree, live with the consequences. If you can't find a job in the field you love, open a small business centered around what you love. Or, alternatively, do what the rest of us do and work in other jobs while networking. This entitlement mentality is sickening.

Heck, I could love rock climbing, but no one's going to pay me to do it.

And that "insult to the graduate" comment is elitist and again sounds like something a spoiled child would say: as in that work is "below" her. Disgusting point of view you have, sir.

reply to post by mandroids


Mandroid,

No one has a 'RIGHT' to a good job! If you have the right to have a good job then that means it is the 'OBLIGATION' of someone else to provide it for you. Who is OBLIGATED to you but yourself?

And what if the person 'OBLIGATED' to provide that job for you suddenly decides he's done being 'OBLIGATED' and whants to enjoy less responsibilities and exercise his 'RIGHT' to a good job? Then What?