islam: truly an Abrahamic religion?

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

there is no hyperdimentional structures in the quran
the bible is a hologram
the SWORD OF YHWH

or so you believe.

In reality, its a book compiled of many several smaller books written by several authors.

"The sword of YHWH" would not say in one place "the law will remain forever" and in another place "the law has been done away with".
Its there in the bible in plain and simple english.

This is just one of the many contradictions that a simple unbiased read through it would reveal.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

or so you believe.

The codes and characteristics of the discoveries made underlying the text are impossible for just one human to make, let alone 40 different ones, most of whom never met each other.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

Watch "Cosmic Codes", all volumes on Youtube and let me know what you think. Does the Quran display ANY of the same characteristics underlying the text?

Find one SINGLE book, except Qur'an, that:

- doesn't fall into any literary criteria
- has it's opening statement (Bismillah) made of 19 characters
- where the number 19 appears as a word once in that 6000+ verses book
- and it just so happens that the first words of that book to ever be revealed to the man are made of 19 words
- and although the chapter containing these words is the first revealed chapter, in the book itself it is chapter no. 96 - the 19th ch. from the end
- what's more weird, this ch. (96) has, guess what, 19 verses
- furthermore, this book has the word for "day" scattered throughout it exactly 365 times
- the word for month exactly 12 times
- the word for sea exactly 32 times (71.11111% out of 45 - amount of water on earth)
- and the word for land 13 times (28.88889% out of 45 - amount of land on earth)
- has "angel" mentioned 88 times, just as "devil" (88 times)
- has a chapter called "The Sun" each verse of which ends with the letters H and E (Hydrogen/Helium - accidentally the main elements of the sun)
- has a chapter called "The iron", which, is chapter no. 57 - the middle of the book sort to say - just like the middle of the iron isotopes (57)
- and the word "The iron" - "El hadid" has, by "pure chance" the numerical value of 57, whereas "iron" (Hadid) has a numerical value of 26 - absolutely coincidentally the atomic number of iron
- still more, it mentions "tree" 26 times, just as the word "plant"
- it also has "seven heavens" repeated 7 times. And even "The creation of the heavens" also 7 times.
- further, this book has the word "paradise" repeated 77 times - like the word "hell"
- it also has the word "man" repeated 23 times, just like "woman" and, this, just for "fun", is also:
- the number of the human chromosomes (46) from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo; 23 each from mother and father.
- this utterly "unspectacular" book, being more than 1400 years old, has in it, the descriptions of:
-- the Big Bang
-- the Expansion of the Universe
-- the Big Crunch
-- the Dark Matter
-- the Black Holes
-- the relativity of time
-- the origin of iron from outer space
-- the significance of fingertips
-- the pain receptors in the skin, etc...
- further, in this "any book with good amount of pages", we find that it has:
-- 114 chapters, and the sum of the chapter numbers (1+2+...+114) is: 6555
-- the sum of the verses (7+286+...) is 6236
-- out of the total sum of ch. number plus number of v. (1 + 7, 2 + 286,) we get .... wait for it:
-- total of the odd numbers: 6555
-- total of the even numbers: 6236
-- interestingly, in this book the author makes quite a strange oath. "By the even and the odd ..." (Q, 89:3)
- now, this book has an even weirder property: it is NOT written chronologically - the author doesn't start with verse 1 of ch. 1, then writes verse 2 of ch. 1 etc ... nope:
He writes verses 1-5 of ch. 96 (19 words of the ch. which WILL HAVE LATER 19 verses, and will be the 19th ch. from the end of the book) then after 2-3 years he writes the beginning of ch. 74, up to verse 30, which states "Over it are nineteen" - stops, then writes chapter no.1, which, oh dear, starts with "bismillah", comprised of 19 letters.
So, during hardship, getting tortured, attacked etc. for 23 years he writes a verse here and there, from totally DIFFERENT chapters, and the whole time he keeps in mind (since he cant ACTUALLY write/read) where which verse will go, in which chapter, after which verse etc.
AND ALL THAT WHILE CREATING A SUPREME MATHEMATICAL SYSTEM AND DESCRIBING SCIENTIFIC FACTS DISCOVERED THOUSAND+ YEARS LATER.



Nay, but those who disbelieve live in denial, And Allah, all unseen, surroundeth them. Nay, this is a glorious Qur'an! (Qur'an, 85:19-21)

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

Find one SINGLE book, except Qur'an, that:

I already did, the Bible, apparently you didn't even complete step #1: Watch the videos.

P.S. I'm not challenging the idea that the Qu'ran came from a super-intelligent entity of supernatural origins. It did. It came directly from a formerly-anointed cherub of God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

Find one SINGLE book, except Qur'an, that:

I already did, the Bible, apparently you didn't even complete step #1: Watch the videos.

P.S. I'm not challenging the idea that the Qu'ran came from a super-intelligent entity of supernatural origins. It did. It came directly from a formerly-anointed cherub of God.

I did watch it. It would have been even more spectacular had it been PRESERVED. As it is now, we have something here and there, but it gets "kaputt" by the changes.

As for the second part of your quote: Thank you, hypocrisy has never been so subtle. I could say the same thing about the Bible, you know? Or you forgot that ...

And your companion is not [at all] mad.
And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.
And Muhammad is not a withholder of [knowledge of] the unseen.
And the Qur'an is not the word of a devil, expelled [from the heavens].
So where are you going?
It is not except a reminder to the worlds
For whoever wills among you to take a right course.
And you do not will except that Allah wills - Lord of the worlds. - 81:22-29

Oh, and BTW:

And when you see those who engage in [offensive] discourse concerning Our verses, then turn away from them until they enter into another conversion. And if Satan should cause you to forget, then do not remain after the reminder with the wrongdoing people. - 6:68

G'day to you Sir.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

As it is now, we have something here and there, but it gets "kaputt" by the changes.

YES! Thank you for pointing this out! Now you know why some of us as so adamant about rejecting modern versions which rely on 4th century codecies. *wink wink* The extraordinary properties underlying the text vanish when those manuscripts are used instead of the Received Text.

As for the second part of your quote: Thank you, hypocrisy has never been so subtle.

Not entirely. What separates the Quran's supernatural authorship from that of the Bible's supernatural Author is the inclusion of thousands of extremely detailed prophecies, thus proving the Bible's supernatural Author is One who exists outside of creation itself, outside the space time dimension itself. An Entity who sees "the end from the beginning".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

As for the second part of your quote: Thank you, hypocrisy has never been so subtle.

Not entirely. What separates the Quran's supernatural authorship from that of the Bible's supernatural Author is the inclusion of thousands of extremely detailed prophecies, thus proving the Bible's supernatural Author is One who exists outside of creation itself, outside the space time dimension itself. An Entity who sees "the end from the beginning".

And why can't this "entity" be the one you implied revealed the Qur'an?

See, I can turn it around. I can also claim that the Bible has been "inspired" by the devil.

The difference between you and me is this: IT IS A TENET OF MY FAITH to believe God revealed the Torah to Moses, the Psalms to David and the Gospel to Jesus.

I believe it and I respect it.


You on the other hand say that the Qur'an is from devil.


I believe in ALL the Prophets - while you on the other hand accuse Muhammad of being a devil worshiper.




And about the prophecies. Read the Qur'an.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Chuck Missler? Who is this guy?
Do you consider him to be a prophet or something, that you follow him so much??

It sure appears so and its startling to see so many christians follow the teachings of Misslers and Campings etc.

Sorry, you can cling on to his teachings all you want, but dont try and convince your opponents on a forum that a certain Chuck Missler that YOU personally follow has the "truth".

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

You on the other hand say that the Qur'an is from devil.

I'm merely agreeing with Muhammad. Who upon first meeting the angel in the cave told his wife he encountered a 'jinn'. Secondly, the Biblical text was first, the entity that dictated to Muhammad had a thousand years to study the coding of the books used for the Bible. And 600 years to study for the NT books. So this entity had time to study the coding under the text, and hundreds and thousands of years to imitate prophecies recorded in the plain wording of the text.

All the devil can do is imitate God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

You on the other hand say that the Qur'an is from devil.

I'm merely agreeing with Muhammad. Who upon first meeting the angel in the cave told his wife he encountered a 'jinn'. Secondly, the Biblical text was first, the entity that dictated to Muhammad had a thousand years to study the coding of the books used for the Bible. And 600 years to study for the NT books. So this entity had time to study the coding under the text, and hundreds and thousands of years to imitate prophecies recorded in the plain wording of the text.

All the devil can do is imitate God.

Aha.

Ok, then check this out:

22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Be-el'zebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons."
23 And he called them to him, and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.

Now apply the words of Jesus to the Qur'an, which states in HUNDREDS of verses that Satan is our open enemy - where God COMMANDS us to SAY "I SEEK REFUGE IN ALLAH FROM THE ACCURSED SATAN"

Remember: And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.


As I said: Hypocrisy has never been so subtle.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Chuck Missler? Who is this guy?

Bible teacher who's ministry specializes in a few areas. Eschatology, Texual Commentary, his degree is in information sciences, so his understanding and teaching on the codes and discoveries under the text is quite insightful.

Do you consider him to be a prophet or something, that you follow him so much??

Oh no, he's not a prophet, never claims to be so. I really enjoy him because he's so intelligent, I love extremely intelligent people to listen to. And I also love how humble he is, most other teachers preachers and such never say things like: "This doesn't mean we are correct, just reasons why we believe X", or "Do not take my word for it, search these things out for yourself.", or "always be like the Bereans, have a readiness of mind to listen to anything, but search the scriptures yourselves daily to see if these things are so." He's just one of many favorites I have, Mark Driscoll, Damon Thompson, Perry Stone, Dr. David Regean, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Jason Lisle, Dr. Andrew Snelling.

There are none better at teaching about what people from Secular, Jewish, and Christian sources have recently discovered about the Biblical text, him or Hal Lindsey.

It sure appears so and its startling to see so many christians follow the teachings of Misslers and Campings etc.

Appeal to ridicule, poisoning the well.

Sorry, you can cling on to his teachings all you want, but dont try and convince your opponents on a forum that a certain Chuck Missler that YOU personally follow has the "truth".

What did he actually say that you disagree with?

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Tisk, tisk.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


His goal is to do two things:

1. Get man to deny Christ came in the flesh.
2. Get man to deny the relationship between the Father and the Son.

Muhammad read the Bible, too bad he forgot these verses:


"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

and..

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2 Cor. 11:14

You guys technically worship rocks. A black one in Saudi Arabia, and a big one under the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

His goal is to do two things:

1. Get man to deny Christ came in the flesh.
2. Get man to deny the relationship between the Father and the Son.

Muhammad read the Bible, too bad he forgot these verses:


"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

and..

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2 Cor. 11:14

Weak, very weak.

When confronted with facts, and the sayings of Jesus that Satan cannot go against himself - thus proving that Qur'an cannot be from Satan, since it clearly condemns him, you resort to cheap tactics by one who was not even an apostle of Jesus. He is the same one who Jesus warned about (wolf in sheep's clothing).

Muhammad did not preach "another Gospel". Muhammad acknowledged the Gospel was revealed to Jesus.
Satan is not an angel. He was a Jinn. Angels have NO FREE WILL - they cannot DISOBEY GOD.
Thus, if an angels revealed the Qur'an, like Gabriel, then he was OBEYING GOD and transmitting His Words to Muhammad.

Now, read the Qur'an.

You cling on refusing to do so. Read it, it won't bite you.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

When confronted with facts, and the sayings of Jesus that Satan cannot go against himself - thus proving that Qur'an cannot be from Satan, since it clearly condemns him, you resort to cheap tactics by one who was not even an apostle of Jesus.

You missed my point, if those are his goals "mission objectives", then any means to that end isn't "going against himself". Jesus died for Muhammad too.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

When confronted with facts, and the sayings of Jesus that Satan cannot go against himself - thus proving that Qur'an cannot be from Satan, since it clearly condemns him, you resort to cheap tactics by one who was not even an apostle of Jesus.

You missed my point, if those are his goals "mission objectives", then any means to that end isn't "going against himself". Jesus died for Muhammad too.

There are NO MEANS TO THAT END.

As per Jesus saying, Qur'an CANNOT BE FROM DEVIL. PERIOD.

If you deny this, you are going AGAINST JESUS.


Choose.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

Satan is not an angel.

He's actually of the greatest created order of angels, the cherubim. Who continually stood in the presence of God. His former job before his fall was as the "anointed cherub who covereth" the throne of God. That is why cerubs with flaming swords were placed at the gates to the tree of life in the garden, to keep out another cherub.


Do you know why we Christians don't make pilgrimages to Jesus's tomb today? No one is exactly sure which one it is, both are empty though.

However, you can visit Muhammad's tomb today.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You guys technically worship rocks. A black one in Saudi Arabia, and a big one under the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

And you technically worship Roman torture instruments.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 14:6


All satan wants is for you to deny that Christ died for you, that He is the only begotten Son of God. That comes in millions of flavors, he doesn't care, your his either way apart from Christ.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

He's actually of the greatest created order of angels, the cherubim.

No, he was a Jinn.
Because Angels cannot disobey God.

The problem is in the Bible, because it intermittently uses names like "angels", "gods" etc. for a number of beings.
Sometimes people are called "gods", sometimes jinns are called "angels", etc.

Still, Satan was a jinn. An energy being, with a FREE WILL. That is why he could choose to disobey God.

Angels have no free will.



Thus, as per Jesus saying, the Qur'an cannot be from Devil.
If you deny that, you are going AGAINST JESUS.


Choose.