Anemospilia-human sacrifice interrupted?

page: 1
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 06:55 PM
link   
On of the more interesting places I visited in Crete was the site of this Minoan temple which was probably destroyed when Thera exploded.

It was excavated thirty years ago and about three years after the report had come out I was able to enter the area which is usually kept closed to tourists.

What is interesting is that after the temple was destroyed it appears to have not been looted or disturbed until Sakellaraki found and opened it up. One of the things he found is noted below. The temple was 'frozen' in time with it being destroyed by an earthquake which killed a number of people under the collasping walls.


In the western chamber, two skeletons were found on the floor, one in the south west corner of the room This body was of a 28 year old female, because the average life expectancy in ancient civilisations was around 55, she would have been a middle aged woman. And because the Minoan women had an almost equal station in life in those days, she would have almost certainly been a high priestess of some sort.

The other skeleton was that of a male, he was aged in his late thirties, and about 180 cm tall, and powerfully built, he was lying on his back with his hands covering his face, as if to protect it. The tall man had a ring made of iron and silver on the little finger of his left hand and on his wrist was an engraved seal of “exceptional artistic merit”, this would have obviously been very valuable. His legs were broken and his body was found near the centre of the room next to a platform, at the base of the platform was a trough.

On top of the platform another body was found. This was a body of an 18 year old male; he was found in the foetal position, lying on his right side. Amongst the bones was found an ornately engraved knife, it was 40 cm long and weighing more than 400g. Each side of the blade had an incised rendering of an animal head, the snout and tusks of a boar, ears like butterfly wings and slanted eyes like a fox. His legs were forced back so that his heels were almost touching his thigh, indicating that they were tied there. His jaw was closed; this is unusual because the jaw usually sags open after death. After a laboratory examination, it was revealed that the bones on the left side of his body were white, and the bones on the right side were black. It is a well known forensic fact that when a body with its blood supply intact is burned, the bones turn black. If the blood is drained before burning, the bones will be white. This shows that the priest and priestess were only half way through the ceremony when the body caught fire.
.


A fair description of the ruins and the bodies found







More images here

Link to website with more images




posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:28 PM
link   
The Minoans are probably my favorite ancient civilization, and I didn't know they did human sacrifice, but it really doesn't surprise me. at least they slit his throat before the burnt him, it seems



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mkoll
The Minoans are probably my favorite ancient civilization, and I didn't know they did human sacrifice, but it really doesn't surprise me. at least they slit his throat before the burnt him, it seems


Yes the speculation is that the sacrifice was being made to appease the gods due to increased earthquakes and pre-explosion eruptions from Thera. In this case the sacrifice angered the gods - or they didn't think much of that young man!



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 05:52 PM
link   
Grusome yet fascinating. I can only imagine what success (or not) they thought they had received through the ritual when the explosion occured. Goodness me, to be a fly on that wall!



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 12:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Mkoll
The Minoans are probably my favorite ancient civilization, and I didn't know they did human sacrifice, but it really doesn't surprise me. at least they slit his throat before the burnt him, it seems


Yes the speculation is that the sacrifice was being made to appease the gods due to increased earthquakes and pre-explosion eruptions from Thera. In this case the sacrifice angered the gods - or they didn't think much of that young man!


Under the circumstances it is hard to think they didn't reject the sacrifice



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:48 AM
link   
reply to post by Hanslune
 


Basically it confirms the nature of the pre Greek matriarchal societies that where thought to be made up to justify some of the Greek states more misogynist practices..

If this whole feminist, feminine spirituality ever took hold of a society, I wouldn't be surprised if human male sacrifice eventually became a part of it.

The Minions deserved the outcome and are best to remain a mostly forgotten people.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hanslune
It is a well known forensic fact that when a body with its blood supply intact is burned, the bones turn black. If the blood is drained before burning, the bones will be white. This shows that the priest and priestess were only half way through the ceremony when the body caught fire.
.



I've tried to find some sort of confirmation of the above mentioned 'well-known forensic fact' for a little more detail but Google is refusing to answer my questions


So I shall put them here instead and see if anyone can clarify...

If his blood supply was intact at the time of death the blood would not simply be in 'half' of his body...the heart would still be pumping it around to the point of death and then...it would cease to pump it. If, therefore, the conflagaration that burnt him occurred when his circulation was intact, the effect of this 'well-known forensic fact' would cheifly be present at his extremities.

Doesn't it seem more likely that the blackening/whitening would be caused by livor mortis, another very well-known forensic fact? In which case, indicating that he had been dead for at least 20 minutes prior to being burnt?

Given how he was bound, it seems far more obvious that he was the victim of a failed ritual castration, and far more fitting to the Minoan belief systems.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:43 PM
link   
Would you get the same pattern of blackening if the body had laid for awhile (until after rigor mortis, for instance, with the blood settling in lower regions) and then the body was burned -- or was this due to something else? It's interesting that the collapsed temple created such a small "snapshot" of the practice. I'll have to read more.
edit on 31-12-2011 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Byrd
 


Golly gosh...now there's a coincidence for ya.

And even more obvious...except for the age...which is why I was going for castration.


edit on 31-12-2011 by Omphale because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:50 PM
link   
Actually, given the location of the temple, I wonder how likely it was that the burning was caused by a nuee ardente lahar or just fire from the volcanic eruption. The iron ring on the finger of the first man is particularly interesting -- he must have had very high status to wear that.

(just read the website... fascinating summary. I'm surprised at how small the rooms are even in a temple, compared to modern rooms. The main part of the temple looks about the same size as my bedroom!)
edit on 31-12-2011 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Omphale
reply to post by Byrd
 


Golly gosh...now there's a coincidence for ya.

And even more obvious...except for the age...which is why I was going for castration.


edit on 31-12-2011 by Omphale because: (no reason given)


Actually, castration on humans was generally done before the person reached puberty -- unless they were a war captive or the castration was voluntary. In either case, that's not the position you use when castrating a human male.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 04:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd
Actually, given the location of the temple, I wonder how likely it was that the burning was caused by a nuee ardente lahar or just fire from the volcanic eruption. The iron ring on the finger of the first man is particularly interesting -- he must have had very high status to wear that.


High status, and yet, hadn't evacuated...hmm (having now looked up 'nuee ardente lahar'
) I see what you mean...so possibly caught in the first wave, Other archaelogical findings indicate that there was some evacuation...the villas were abandoned, but with some order it seems, for example...this wasn't like Pompeii was it?



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 05:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Omphale
reply to post by Byrd
 


Golly gosh...now there's a coincidence for ya.

And even more obvious...except for the age...which is why I was going for castration.


edit on 31-12-2011 by Omphale because: (no reason given)


Actually, castration on humans was generally done before the person reached puberty -- unless they were a war captive or the castration was voluntary. In either case, that's not the position you use when castrating a human male.


No, in Ancient Anatolia, those that first settled the Greek Islands from the East, it was done, voluntarily, upon reaching manhood, if you wanted to join the Priesthood of the Mother Goddess. It is the basis of the latter Tamborline, and was partly initiation, if you survived, and had visions, you were through. The position seems quite logical to me, if you imagine the genitals passed through to the rear, ala 'Buffalo Bill' in Silence of the Lambs.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:34 PM
link   
reply to post by Omphale
 


From what I've read about the subject of voluntary castration, it was performed by the men themselves, and they wouldn't have tied their ankles to their thighs. Now -- what I read was from a different culture in the area, so I don't know (nor does anyone else) how it was done. Human sacrifice as a religious ritual in the Middle East was relatively rare (compared to the Mayans and Aztecs, where mass slaughter of humans was an acceptable sacrifice.) The Bible documents some cases... I'm not sure how many sites have been identified as major human sacrifice sites.

I know there's lots of RUMORED (but undocumented) sites. Can't say for sure about documented sites.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd
reply to post by Omphale
 


From what I've read about the subject of voluntary castration, it was performed by the men themselves, and they wouldn't have tied their ankles to their thighs. Now -- what I read was from a different culture in the area, so I don't know (nor does anyone else) how it was done. Human sacrifice as a religious ritual in the Middle East was relatively rare (compared to the Mayans and Aztecs, where mass slaughter of humans was an acceptable sacrifice.) The Bible documents some cases... I'm not sure how many sites have been identified as major human sacrifice sites.

I know there's lots of RUMORED (but undocumented) sites. Can't say for sure about documented sites.


Thanks for that...and that is also what I have read about male castrations, of the voluntary kind in that region...but, have you not found that the more structured the society becomes, the more regimented and formal, the ritual practices becomes? I wonder if this is an example of this...and that voluntary became, shall we say, less voluntary....?

I'm of the opinion that certainly by the time of the 'classical' Athenian period, that much of the anecdotal evidence that we have of human sacrifice can also be, equally, interpreted as either medical investigation and surgical procedures, or post-mortem dissections. As well as deaths as a result of ritual castrations. There is little real evidence of any human sacrifice, even the practice of haruspicy seems to have been confined to executed prisoners or others deemed 'outsiders', rather than a ritual offering from within (including slaves who can be seen as a possessions and therefore of value in that respect).

The Aztecs practice of sacrifice was a literal relationship between the nutrients of death and the fertility of the earth. And of course they were right, and we still use (non-human) blood as fertiliser...what is alluded to during the classical period is different, and I don't think an evolution of those fertility practices, but rather in some cases an exploration of human physiology. Particularly if you look at the references to the cult of Cybele, they were serving a function within Roman society that went beyond superstition, it was a practical function whatever it was.

And I know that none of this is documented and I am working purely of supposition and implication...but that is why were here on ATS, isn't it? Indulge me. And yourself
edit on 1-1-2012 by Omphale because: (no reason given)
edit on 1-1-2012 by Omphale because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by Omphale
Thanks for that...and that is also what I have read about male castrations, of the voluntary kind in that region...but, have you not found that the more structured the society becomes, the more regimented and formal, the ritual practices becomes?

Not really. I would agree that as a society becomes more structured, more rules exist to micro-manage boundaries. But there are notably a number of African cultures which are not as layered as (say) ancient China and yet still have a huge number of ritual and formal practices.

Often it comes down to "how much do they believe in magic."


I wonder if this is an example of this...and that voluntary became, shall we say, less voluntary....?


The only situations of this that I know are documented are the castrati of early opera fame. Wikipedia has a good sourced article on eunuchs which says it was also carried out on the unwilling (generally slaves) and mentions (modern) examples of it being performed on boys to sell into the brothels.


I'm of the opinion that certainly by the time of the 'classical' Athenian period, that much of the anecdotal evidence that we have of human sacrifice can also be, equally, interpreted as either medical investigation and surgical procedures, or post-mortem dissections. As well as deaths as a result of ritual castrations. There is little real evidence of any human sacrifice, even the practice of haruspicy seems to have been confined to executed prisoners or others deemed 'outsiders', rather than a ritual offering from within (including slaves who can be seen as a possessions and therefore of value in that respect).


I don't know, myself. It's not a subject I have done any research on. I'm familiar with the legends, and in general with the society and history but I did not get the impression that it was a common or standard practice.


The Aztecs practice of sacrifice was a literal relationship between the nutrients of death and the fertility of the earth.

The practice seems complex once you look into it, with the non-death sacrificial blood offerings and so forth. Again, I haven't studied this in any depth.


Particularly if you look at the references to the cult of Cybele, they were serving a function within Roman society that went beyond superstition, it was a practical function whatever it was.


What I know of that one cult is that it was done by the man himself. I don't know that this cult of Cybele existed in Anemospilia, though. More people have asked questions about ancient Egypt and I've had to go looking up lots of references there. Not so many ask about other societies.

Heh. I may start having to look up research papers on this as well. Hans has a great deal of knowledge about these areas.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Byrd
 





Heh. I may start having to look up research papers on this as well. Hans has a great deal of knowledge about these areas.


Er, ah what castration? Well, no I don't recommend it as a practice and if you wish to do it, DYI- don't use pliers.



posted on Jan, 6 2012 @ 04:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd
Often it comes down to "how much do they believe in magic."


Or, in how effective, and/or seemingly effective, that magic is?


Originally posted by Byrd
The only situations of this that I know are documented are the castrati of early opera fame. Wikipedia has a good sourced article on eunuchs which says it was also carried out on the unwilling (generally slaves) and mentions (modern) examples of it being performed on boys to sell into the brothels.


The Indian culture has contemporary, in fact current examples, there is still, sometimes, practice of castration. It supposedly has ancient origins, and these people are usually referred to as the 'Third Sex'.


Hindu philosophy has the concept of a third sex or third gender (tritiya-prakriti – literally, "third nature"). This category includes a wide range of people with mixed male and female natures such as bisexuals, transgenders, homosexuals, the intersexed, and so on.[26] Such persons are not considered fully male or female in traditional Hinduism, being a combination of both. They are mentioned as third sex by nature (birth)[27] and are not expected to behave like ordinary men and women. They often keep their own societies or town quarters, perform specific occupations (such as masseurs, hairdressers, flower-sellers, domestic servants, etc.) and are generally attributed a semi-divine status. Their participation in religious ceremonies, especially as crossdressing dancers and devotees of certain temple gods/goddesses, is considered auspicious in traditional Hinduism. Some Hindus believe that third-sex people have special powers allowing them to bless or curse others. In Hinduism, the universal creation is honored as unlimitedly diverse and the recognition of a third sex is simply one more aspect of this understanding.[28]

In 2008, the state of Tamil Nadu recognised the "Third Gender"; with its civil supplies department giving in the ration card a provision for a new sex column as 'T', distinct from the usual 'M' and 'F' for males and females respectively. This was the first time that authorities anywhere in India have officially recognised the third gender.[29]


en.wikipedia.org...

Similiarly, if you have read Phlegon's book of surprising things, I think it is called, you will find that there is a similar aspect in Greek and Early Roman culture in the heritage of their storytelling. A recognition that all is not black and white with the sexes. In the Phyrigian culture, those that wished to enter into the service of Cybele, would cut off their own genitals, and then spend the night in the sacred cave where, if they survived the blood loss, they were entered into the Priesthood. Obviously, all this followed some frenzy whipping and general inducement of a state of ecstasy. The Hindu's traditionally use a chair with a hole through which the genitals descend. A cord is then wrapped around the scrotum and penis, until the circulation has been cut off, then the genitals are severed.

The greatest risk is post-op infections, hormonal disturbance, and a lifetime of urinary tract infections…obviously it is more advanced now and carried out in hospitals by those who can afford the procedure.

However, I still agree with you that given the positioning and binding of the body it is probably more likely that he was being prepared for burial.


Originally posted by Byrd
I don't know, myself. It's not a subject I have done any research on. I'm familiar with the legends, and in general with the society and history but I did not get the impression that it was a common or standard practice.


That is really all I get, an impression, but also, amongst it all, there is a secret world of medicine, that seems to be frightening and threatening to all sorts of people.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Omphale
 





there is a secret world of medicine, that seems to be frightening and threatening to all sorts of people.


Please explain



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:16 PM
link   
How's about he wasn't being castrated or sacrificed but had gone to the temple for bloodletting? Unfortunately for the poor young man, he just happened to pick a bad day to go to 'the doctor' to have the 'procedure' done and ended up bleeding to death when his caretakers were killed in the earthquake.

After all, bloodletting has historical precedence for the general area and time in question moreso than castration and/or sacrifice does.
edit on 1/7/2012 by Mad Simian because: (no reason given)





new topics
 
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join