Can you help a Lady with: Some Insight on 'Christian' behavior...

reply to post by yeahright


Devils advocate moment...

I can understand a level of disillusionment and anger over religious reality vs the religious ideal or projected image. We do live in a society where a group of people have a fairly large percentage of influence upon our day to day lives. Some people, within this particular group, tend to make some very grandious statements and claims.

Growing up, we tend to believe the hype... thinking that there are ideals out there, and people aspiring to those ideals. Once we grow up enough to learn that, for the most part, it's all a front, a sham... Well... disappointment can breed severe revulsion.

This is just human nature.

Add that to the fact that we tend to generalize where others are concerned, and it's a recipe for the broad brush strokes and misunderstandings. These lead to animosity.

Personally I think the world would be a much better place if we all learned to just treat others as we'd want to be treated... and isn't that the basis of Christianity anyway?

I guess we all really do want the same things.

reply to post by Annee

Oh yeah! In my belief - - I consider every thought an action. Try that. I am Atheist - - but I also believe energy creates and that thought is creative energy. Creative Energy becomes part of the energy Matrix (for lack of a better term). Responsibility of thought.

So are you trying to tell us.. that you have taken full responsibility for all your thoughts.. all the energy you have put out there with your thoughts?

Your thoughts have been nothing but positive creative energy for the matrix?

Looks like we all fall short of the perfection we try and attain...even atheists.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Oh So are you trying to tell us.. that you have taken full responsibility for all your thoughts.. all the energy you have put out there with your thoughts?

Absolutely!

Your thoughts have been nothing but positive creative energy for the matrix?

Where did I say that?

Looks like we all fall short of the perfection we try and attain...even atheists.

Define perfection.

Atheists are individuals. How I think or belief has nothing to do with any other atheist.

I take full responsibility for the energy I put out. ME - - me alone.

reply to post by occrest

Are you not guilty of the same thing you accuse this man of doing, by coming here to a public forum, where he is not able to defend himself?

Is not what you call him also applicable to yourself, since you are doing what you are accusing him of doing?

I'm not his 'mentor', I'm not making fun of him, so no. I'm asking a question. In fact I'm asking for other opinions in order to get a feel for how others react to make sure I'm not overreacting. Beyond that I gave my opinion. Too bad for you. Ciao.

Thanks for the trolling.

Didn't see who I was responding too - sorry!

peace

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

What is this man mentoring the other man in? What kind of "authority" position is this man in?

A 'life mentor' from a Christian standpoint.
Authority? Self appointed authority.

On another note I probably should have left out the fact the guy is a Christian. It probably would have changed the whole feel of the thread. People are focusing on that, when it's the smaller part of the problem in my mind.

Thank you IAOH

peace

reply to post by seachange

If the guy is focusing on the negative, that is one thing. But, if he is just telling it like it is and what it is is somewhat crude and embarrassing, then its up to you to let people know you can't handle it.

Good point! I'll keep my ears open for when he's too 'abrupt' (in my opinion) in the future and try to discern if that's the case.
In this case though - coming right on the tail of the comment about his 'whining for food getting too annoying'? I can assure you he wasn't just being too abrupt, but, frankly just mean. That's not taking away from you made a great point and I appreciate it. Thank you!

peace

reply to post by brokedown

Beautiful post. Well thought out, succinct, non judgmental and poignant. I truly appreciate the time and effort you spent in posting.

One question though if I might. I do understand we're not to judge, and yes, that is what I was doing. But were we not told to not judge - nonbelievers? I was under the impression we were to 'judge' fellow Christians only to be able to help them. Not to put them down or gossip about them, but to actually help them.

I'm not saying I'm blameless and I screw up continually - readily admitted. But, I did bring this to the mans attention right there on the spot. It just made me feel sick to hear him talk that way about someone he 'mentored'.

Peace to you and yours and thank you again,
gracie

reply to post by charles1952

I'm responding only because you were specifically asking people to, not because I have anything useful to say. All I have are questions. Some of the questions have already been asked.

Thank you, very kind of you.

A new person in any field can use a mentor. Is this a welding mentor? A fitness mentor? A spiritual mentor?

Spiritual/Life mentor. I should have made that clear.

Do you know the person he was talking about? Did he have some reason for believing you would keep the converstaion confidential?

Nope. Just a 'guy' he knows. Regardless it still bothered me.

Do you think that "his crying is too extreme" meant the guy actually shed tears, or as is more likely, that he would just complain?

Complain without ceasing is what I hear.
But really, the 'mentor' is well over 60 pounds too heavy himself and diabetic. A type of diabetes that can be controlled by his eating, loosing weight, etc. Also something I found highly offensive. Here he's a 'mentor' but he can't even control himself? See what I mean? I'm not asking you to agree, just understand possibly?

"Talks that filthy behind someone's back?" I don't see it as "that filthy." He was talking about a guy that had weighed well over 300 pounds. I think a plausible argument could be made for the proposition that he was commenting on how remarkable the change was.

Yes, that's where opinions come in. If this guy was not a 'mentor' I probably wouldn't be so concerned, but yes, to me it is pretty filthy to talk about someone you 'mentor' behind there back and in such a negative way. IMO of course.

Will you judge him, now, for what you see as a failing? Do you want us to support you in your anger? Are you unsure about what Christianity calls for in this situation?

No no no - I'd never ask someone to 'support me in my anger'. There's enough a that around without actively asking people to support it.

If I were to write the thread over again I would word it differently. What I was asking for - in all honesty - was just opinions. Opinions on how it would make you feel - and what you would do (if anything) when hearing someone talk so disparagingly behind anothers back. If that is even an issue anymore in people own personal integrity - to speak up and say something or not.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. I wish I could have been a help.

You were. Thank you

peace

reply to post by yeahright

We should all spend a lot more time judging ourselves against whatever ideal we see as appropriate, and not concern ourselves so much with what other people are doing.

Agreed. But on the other hand when you hear someone who's supposed to be in a position of authority 'talk down' about someone else? Sorry, but, for me, I have to rear my head and say something. Not so much to judge the person who's talking out of line, but to defend the one being talked about.

I mean honestly, can you really see someone walking up the man he mentors and saying 'Wow, I can finally see your face?' Because IMO no matter HOW that sentence is delivered? It's still gonna hurt. Or so says me heart.

Anyway, thanks for the reply - I'm always up for others opinions. Though I am going to have to do some hunting around though. I was sure i was Christians are not supposed to judge non-Christians, but do judge each other to keep them clear.

*Off to check*

peace

For some reason, Christianity brings with it one important word...judgement.
The more extreme the Christianity, the more extreme the judgement.

It is a transparent game played on a daily basis in all walks of life. Unfortunately, one of the main tools of the zealot is this game...

If this person were a true Christian, there would be no judgement of this sort...or, some people just do not have the social and conversational skills to perform...mentoring, and should take a good, long, hard look in the mirror...take care of thier own backyard-before determining the care or otherwise of others' back yards...

How's that for judgement?

Akushla

reply to post by akushla99

I have no idea whether I'm a good Christian, I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I have two quick thoughts on Judgment.

1) There will be a judgment for you that will determine your eternal destiny.

2) God does the judging, not me or anyone else.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by akushla99

 

I have no idea whether I'm a good Christian, I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I have two quick thoughts on Judgment.

1) There will be a judgment for you that will determine your eternal destiny.

2) God does the judging, not me or anyone else.

...so...you see how easy it is to do?!

Number 2 kinda cancels out Number 1, doesn't it?...and, puts into question the real understanding of Number 2...don't you think?

Good luck to you
Akushla


...as an aside, you will notice that both my replies are non-personalised...your reply was exactly the kind of comment my original statement was illuminating.

reply to post by akushla99

Dear akushla99,

The subject is important and I take you very seriously, so I must admit I'm a little concerned by your response. Concerned because I do not understand it and I think understanding here is important. You mention non-personalization, may I try again?

At some point, everyone's deeds and "heart" are weighed. Some consequence for their "good" or "evil" will occur. It is not for any individual to make that judgment, we have not the power to do that.

Do you find the above statement, offensive, intolerant, in error, or in any other way unworthy? If you do, please explain it to me. And remember my signature "I'm not the sharpest bulb in the drawer."

With respect,
Charles1952

typical christian... they do / say whatever they want using their book of fairytales to justify it all and go to church thinking it absolves them of all wrongdoing. they're also least likely to help others in times of need.
Never trust a christian and avoid them at as much as possible.

reply to post by Expat888

Excuse me, is that directed to me? If so, please explain where I have gone wrong. I don't see myself in those categories, and I don't know of any Christian that believes going to church absolves them of wrongdoing, but maybe I have a limited circle of friends.

Originally posted by silo13
I’ll tell you my opinion after a few of your opinions come in. No, I won't I'll tell you now.

reply to post by silo13


Thank you for lovely response to my reply.

You poise a question concerning “judgment of others”.

First let us all again recognize the starting point each of us are beginning from, that we are human beings with all of the inherited fears, frailties, and failures that this state of being comes with.
When we understand that each and everyone of us are alike in these short comings, the teaching of the Master makes much more sense.

Luke 6 (please read the entire chapter, as those who are familiar with my theology, it is my belief that one NEVER takes one verse to understand a teaching, but you use the entire story as the guide, but with that said, this excerpt gives the bedrock of the teaching)

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
39And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

What we come away with in this teaching that we are ALL the same, each of us experience the same failures. If we are to become “light” in the darkness we must understand that when we “judge” another we are actually judging our self. This teaching goes further in to the thought that No matter what is done to us, we are called to show compassion, forgiveness and reconciliation. This is calling us to act in opposition of our natural state of mind.

This teaching of the Master is Spiritual Truth and is a benefit to each that incorporate it into their own lives.

Forgiveness is not really for the benefit of the one in whom we forgive, the act of forgiveness is in actuality for the benefit of the one who forgives.

This brings us to another teaching more closely related to your original posting.

Paul teaches that when one in our communion is acting in a manner outside of the teachings of the Master, that the elders should confront this person, through the act of tough love, illuminate the diversion from the path and help guide the brother back into Spiritual Truth.

This teaching has many times resulted in failure, the answer lies that the ones that were attempting to lift up their brother were themselves the ones who were the blind and have themselves lost there way.

True Christianity is not a religion.

True Christianity is a Spiritual Path that few master.

The rejection of Christianity happens when people do not understand that the religion and the path are two very different things, when weakness and failure is recognized in those that have set themselves up as the leaders of the faith, disillusionment occurs.

When one has the ability to understand that We All are the same, each of us have the same desires and the same short comings, and we are able to understand that the other person is actually just a mirror of our self, the concept of judgment begins to take on new meaning.

Originally posted by brokedown

The rejection of Christianity happens when people do not understand that the religion and the path are two very different things, when weakness and failure is recognized in those that have set themselves up as the leaders of the faith, disillusionment occurs.

NO

I reject Christianity because there is no real facts or truth to back it up. Its a complete myth.

Being a good person - - does not require anything outside yourself.

reply to post by silo13

It doesn't matter one way or another whether you are this mans' mentor or not. The fact remains, you cane into a public forum to gossip/inquire about the behaviour of this man regarding a conversation you had with him in private, publicly berating him for what he said and how he said it, thus making you guilty of the same behaviour.

Was/is the client fat? Then your friend told the truth, however callously you think it might have been done.
Or would you rather have had him referred to as hefty, or chunky, or maybe even portly or stout? Fat is fat, no two ways about it.

By the way, i was not trolling, i was merely stating my viewpoint, which you asked for. I for one, do not care what this man might have said, only that you came on here complaining and whining about somebodys' behaviour, then proceeding to publicly berate him, a man you call your friend.

If you were truly this mans' friend, you would have pulled him aside and let him know what was bothering you.