The law of attraction available to all ATSers

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Linking a bunch of pseudo-scientific 'wellness' sites doesn't avoid the fact that stress is not proven to be the cause of 90% of disease.

It's a BS statistic with no academic source.

There are diseases that are incredibly infectious and you can't 'raise your vibrations' or 'focus' them away. Likewise there are people born into circumstances that all the focusing they can muster won't help them. To think otherwise is to ignore free will or the facts of life.

As much as some people want to believe they can change the universe by the power of their thoughts, it isn't the case. Telling someone that what happens to them is their own fault for being 'negative' or not focusing enough is lacking in human compassion and awareness. There are millions of people in hospitals and they aren't all in there because they think negatively. It's also so human-centric as to be absurd to my thinking. The universe isn't at the beck and call of a human's will to believe.

In terms of logic, there isn't any in the 'law of attraction.'

I have provided you with evidence that is relevant. I am not the doctor that ran these test so I can not provide you with anything further. Obviously, your standards of "evidence" is much higher than I can apparently supply.
"Just because everyone says the sun is yellow, doesn't mean it is" Right?

We say you CAN do these things, and you say we CAN'T. So really, this just comes down to a battle of subjective, opinionated beliefs.

As for your example of people being born into a situation: Has no one EVER risen out of these situations? Has no one ever had the determination (intent) and willpower (focus) to rise from these situations and successfully done so?

It seems cruel, yes, but if you are born into a situation like this and surrounded by individuals who also have no hope, then you will naturally be socially conditioned to believe there there is, in fact, no hope. This pretty much sums up any life and civilization. You are born into a life and are subjected to the masses beliefs and, in turn, they become yours. Why would you ever question everyone else's beliefs that there is no hope for their situation? "Surely, they must ALL be right. Therefore, there must be NO hope. I have doubts that there is hope."

As I stated earlier, there are things that people would consider "accidents". Also, I stated earlier, that this is not a "blame game". It is not someone's fault that they have been born into a world where they are consumed by negativity and their mind's become synchronized with this negativity.

However, as I said earlier, this is just a battle of "yes" and "no", and most likely will not result in any change. I thank you for the chance to explain myself better.

reply to post by thruthseek3r




"Acclaimed journalist, author and political activist Barbara Ehrenreich explores the darker side of positive thinking."

Please watch this.

The law of attraction exists, tough it works like everything else works, and that is sometimes, maybe and depends.

It's just another way of interpreting our reality..This reality is a manifestation of our wills....But there are others out there, and also other entities wills out there who manifest things which either conjoin or collide with each-other, and off-course humans are just one fish in the sea.

reply to post by Kandinsky

It'd mean people with Parkinson's or leukaemia could concentrate them away.

Only if they knew the whole scope of the situation and every single detail of what brought it about, and then only if they had godlike wills. But they can avoid those things away before they happen.

It'd mean the dirt poor could be as comfortably-off as those with their own homes and cars.

Yes same thing, they can do that...But most just spend there time wills and energy on making others rich. And so they get what they want.

Kids could *will* their parents not to fight and to stay together.

To will there parents not to fight they would have to be able to breakthrough there parents wills or break there wills. And in that battle of wills the parents will win.

The thing is, if you believe in the 'law of attraction,' all these people must deserve what they get through concentrating on bad things right?

There is no deserve, but they will get what they will.

So when Mom's dying of a terminal illness and the treatments just don't seem to be working, well...she isn't focusing enough huh?

There is much more to it then that.

Just like there is much more to a tree then its branches and leaves or what you see above the ground, once you go underground you see the roots, and off-course now we know that trees are part of an ecosystem which is part of another ecosystem and so one ad infinitum.

It gets much more complicated, but yes if she knew how and had the will she could cure herself of that terminal illness.

Sorry kids, your Mom doesn't want to live or she'd get better.

There is more going on then what you see or believe in.

Hey homeless people! Stop whining and concentrate more!

If they concentrated and got together they can build a house, then they would be homeless no more, do you doubt that...But off-course once again there is more to it then that...Like there are others manifesting homeless people in there ignorance.

I could mention victims of rape and abuse, but you probably get it already.

A chain binds them all going back an eternity, but yes its a chain of there own making, as well as not of there own making. The same can be said of everything else....Nothing is as simple as it appears.

So if someone wrote a book about this and promised results, the blame for not *succeeding* is the fault of the customer and not the seller. It used to be called selling snake-oil.

If someone wrote a book about it probably would be snake-oil...because as anybody knows knowledge without experience is just theory.

reply to post by Kandinsky

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Okay. So a black family in '30s USA could blame their mind-set for living in poverty and segregation?

Yes. Whatever situation you live in is caused by your mindset. It is the thought the conditioning within your mind which causes you to believe that the only way out of a life situation is either luck or hard work. I will not deny that many people are born in worse situations than others. But no situation is hopeless. Was not Martin Luther King born in 1928? Look what he became....

The dirt-poor barrios of Sao Paulo are occupied by negative-thinkers? Hospital wards are full of mindless wasters who can't be arsed to think positively?

Thinking ‘happy thoughts’ is an over simplification and I have already told you this. I realize that many other posters here are mentioning ‘positive thinking’ but this is not exactly how it works. If you missed it the first time then read my 2nd post which spells it out quite clearly. In fact you really should read this so you do not continue to argue from a position of total ignorance, for it seems clear you have ignored much of what I have already said and continue to rehash the same old arguments. This makes me think I am wasting my time trying to address any of your points at all.

Likewise, medical science is a con when what people really need to be doing is asking the Universe for help and thinking positively? To me that puts us right back at blaming the sick and dying for being negative. It presents victims of prejudice as victims of their own mind-set too doesn't it?

Once again I have told you that it is not thinking positively or negatively. Medical science works just fine for those who are unable to sustain the required thought patterns required to make it work. For little things this can work fine, once again I refer you to the placebo effect. For terminal issues this can is very hard to do. I would not be able to do it myself as I am not Jesus or Buddha. I am just a regular guy with doubts and worries like everyone else. If I were diagnosed with terminal cancer I would go to a doctor and get the required treatment for I doubt I would not be able to ‘think’ myself out of it

The world abounds with rags to riches stories. What changed? In very few circumstances does it have anything to do with 'luck'. What changed was what they wanted out of the world and also how they perceived the world.

There's a gulf of difference between what you and the OP are saying and the effects of motivation. Being motivated helps and doesn't require mystical forces and/or higher vibrations.

Not at all. Being motivated is part of it, but you have to ask what happens when you are motivated that makes the difference. The mystical is becoming much less mystical. It is already a scientific fact that our thoughts can effect subatomic particles which are not in any way attached to the human body. These particles are the building blocks of all matter, and all situations we find ourselves in. What is being said here is not nearly as ‘mystical’ as you are trying to make out. We know so little about the true nature of reality. We are all energy, and we know next to nothing about how this energy behaves except that it does not conform to traditional logic in anyway, or traditional Newtonian physics.

Let's not be obtuse here, the 'facts of life' relate to something like a Rwandan genocide or the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918. Some of you would tut sadly and bemoan their lack of motivation, their negative thoughts and sheer laziness in not 'focusing' their way out of it. Where does the efficiency of a virus come in to play in your universe of wishful thinking?

Let’s not argue the same points again which I have already addressed. Reread what I have said about situations such as these. If you still disagree with what I have said then at least the discussion will have progressed. I will not waste my time retyping the same answers I have already given you.

Maybe you could point me to a decent research paper on the subject of the Law of Attraction? It really needs to be explained to me because it seems like the absurd creation of a person with narcissism and notions of solipsism. It seems to have no logical integrity beyond dumb homilies like 'If we try really hard we can all be successful.' It's bumper-sticker inanity for the shallow and has the social conscience of the average 'self-help' book.

I highly doubt anyone has actually done a research paper on the Law of Attraction. But there are plenty of peer reviewed experiments which show the mind can affect matter outside of the body. I have already provided a link to a thread in my 2nd post which explains the basics and more. This is where you should start as you obviously have not read anything worthwhile on the subject, if indeed you have anything at all. It is a very long thread but reading lists are mentioned within the first 10 or so pages.

It is also worth noting that what we are dealing with here is mind based, and anyone who has studied even basic psychology will realize that even the most simple mind based experiments are fraught with problems simply because the humans mind is such a complex thing. What we do know is that mind based fields such as psychology, therapy or motivational thinking do have a place because they get results. Do not be so quick to write the Law of Attraction off just because it appears ‘new’ (which it is not), or appears to be championed by New Agers (which I guess it is because people like yourself refuse to look into it any further than mass marketed dvds such as ‘The Secret’).

What is this logic? That you cannot change your circumstances for the better? That if you are born into poor you must remain poor?

You're going round in circles here...just like the Law of Attraction.

I say motivated progress in a material world and you say mystical force of attraction. What's intriguing is how many of the spiritual and enlightened folks of ATS can't comprehend why this type of belief-system would be offensive to so many people. Hey, famine victims! Stop whining. Yo innocent prisoner! Get focused dude! Hey terminally ill children! Get out of bed, take out the IVs and go play. Persecuted minorities? Jesus, what the hell are they complaining about?!

I have been very concise in my arguments. It is you who are going around in circles with the same arguments without acknowledging the answers I have given you. As to your other comments here I have addressed these and will not comment further.

If you want to come back with some intelligent questions feel free and I will answer them to the best of my abilities. I know I have left out a lot of details but this is a very extensive topic and I will actually need some proper examples which acknowledge what has already been said by me in order to give you more. Otherwise it is clear you are here merely to be negative and disruptive which benefits no one in the end.

reply to post by Kandinsky


^^^^^^This. Do you think that every single person/Jew that was persecuted during the Holocaust was focused on NEGATIVITY/DEATH AND TORTURE ?? and this is why this happened to them ?

reply to post by 1littlewolf

I know I have left out a lot of details but this is a very extensive topic and I will actually need some proper examples which acknowledge what has already been said by me in order to give you more. Otherwise it is clear you are here merely to be negative and disruptive which benefits no one in the end.

I'm in no need of your input, but thanks for the offer anyway.

No, I wasn't here to be 'negative and disruptive,' that's not my style. It was an accurate, necessary intention to point out why it's silly to think that really concentrating/focusing/believing (or whatever...a semantic mess in this thread) changes reality by some pseudomystical psychobabble.

The logic appears to go thus - a person losing two stones through exercise and dieting is *proof* of the LoA. A person consigned to an early death through hereditary genetics is proof of LoA through their thoughts. A poor family in a Somali village are hungry because they aren't focused enough, which proves the LoA. A victim of sexual/physical abuse is, in some barely expressed way, partly responsible through the LoA. The Indonesian tsunami victims were victims of their own negative thoughts and proof of the LoA. Lots of win, huh?

You could replace LoA with karma/angels/destiny/demons/gods or tooth fairies...

With logic like the LoA, I agree there's no point continuing the discussion. Now I'll leave this thread and you can put it down to how hard you've concentrated to make me go away...proof once more of the LoA.

It is because each of us creates our own reality. It's just that where we are right now, it's so thick and dense, our intentions take more time to manifest into the physical. As we move to the next level, (which can happen any time now) the next dimension or density, our intentions will manifest themselves into the physical much quicker, perhaps instantaneously.

reply to post by Kandinsky

I'm in no need of your input, but thanks for the offer anyway.

No, I wasn't here to be 'negative and disruptive,' that's not my style. It was an accurate, necessary intention to point out why it's silly to think that really concentrating/focusing/believing (or whatever...a semantic mess in this thread) changes reality by some pseudomystical psychobabble.

You don't seem to need anyone's input.What you have said is not at all accurate and therefore it was totally unnecessary

You seem quite determined to stick to your opinion of what LoA is despite the fact that it is completely wrong and having every oportunity offered to you to be taught what LoA is really about. You did saying this in an earlier post....

It really needs to be explained to me because it seems like the absurd creation of a person with narcissism and notions of solipsism.

So if you are leaving too bad for you. You could have learnt something that would have really changed your life for the better, as it has changed mine and countless others.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The logic appears to go thus - a person losing two stones through exercise and dieting is *proof* of the LoA. A person consigned to an early death through hereditary genetics is proof of LoA through their thoughts. A poor family in a Somali village are hungry because they aren't focused enough, which proves the LoA. A victim of sexual/physical abuse is, in some barely expressed way, partly responsible through the LoA. The Indonesian tsunami victims were victims of their own negative thoughts and proof of the LoA. Lots of win, huh?

I understand what you mean, and I agree with your perspective, and certainly was of your perspective let us say 2, maybe 3 years ago. Firstly, I do not practice it, as in I have not and do not make conscious requests on my own behalf, and I never would on a material level. However I am pretty certain it works. On the level that it works though is less clear. There are infinite ways in which a finite set of resources can be utilised, but the resources remain finite. To ask therefore is to take from others. Individuals merely fulfilling wants, as opposed to need, which would be the purpose of this function, affect the balance. In full symbience (and awareness), such a system, would serve to eradicate need. This has not been happening, the 'wants' are monopolising the system. Too much me, me, me-ing, I'm afraid.

ETA...the 'them-ing and us-ing' doesn't particularly help either...

reply to post by Kandinsky

I understand your whole point of seeing the phenomenon in an objective way of thinking (scientific). The problem is you are not objective at all. I see that with your thinking it is all logical but it is limited in way that you do discredit every single point which is not how you might or may think.

This thread was not intended as I said earlier (but I will say it another time, I am patient) to have a debate whether it does work it not. Me and other ATSers here have already experienced how real it is and know what is its potential. The point was to present this theory, without any intention of convincing anybody, to offer people another possibility of thinking.

Concerning me being a dictator I am far from being one, this is disinfo at its worst. But anyway, I am not here to clean your case whether how you argue or not, there is no point in doing this.

I think you, which is a non-believer should try, only try positive thinking the way I said. You will understand what I mean if you do. Furthermore, you will realize one day that the best way to understand how important is a thing is to be in the absence of this thing.

This is my suggestion, but it is up to you, you are the master how your own limitation. Try having a more open mind, which means not put automatically in the "this is impossible according to scientifically proven experiment .... blah blah blah" (you get the point) myth box, without actually trying to experiment it by yourself. Then you will have your own true answer and it will be far better than any proofs you can bring out here from any sources on ATS.


Have fun, this is your life after all,





Thruthseek3r

reply to post by thruthseek3r

this sounds like a new-age rehash of karma.

while a positive outlook is beneficial to your mental well being, it won't bend reality.

reply to post by Templeton


Great video and very interesting. In resume, it explains how somebody in America our leaders "represented by clowns ahah" have the possibility of using the law of attraction and positive thinking to their own advantage. It can be very tempting for the new user of this law to do this too.

What must be noted although is that there are two ways these laws can apply. One is by taking from others in order for you to receive, which is what exactly was described in this video. It is bad because you are acting against the free-will of others, which is something should not ever be done. Elitist leaders using these laws for their own benefit. It is true it can happen, but do not forget that "one reap what he sows". So no worry, these one will have a ephemera happiness, they will have to answer for these actions.


The second way (and the best from my perspective) is to give to others unconditionally, with a positive thinking, for the benefit of others before yours an all this without affecting the others free-will. Not easy you say ? Nope it is not, but as one becomes in touch with this type of knowledge, one understand how great it is to sow positivity all around himself, all in an idea of the best for others. "You reap what you sow".

Do you see the difference between the two sows? It is all in the intention behind the action. The first one is pure individualistically made and the second one is for the benefit of all more than the doer (the opposite of the first one).

This video is very good because it allows me to show you how great and awful at the same time positive thinking can be depending of the personal intention of a person. Thank you I must say.

I particularly liked the end where it said :

We have collective power. We could use it to end a great deal of unnecessary suffering. I am really thinking this is the point of positive thinking.

I hope you had a holy jolly Christmas and that you said hello to friend Juno and everyone you meet ( ah ah sorry I had to say it ).




Thruthseek3r

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


This is your own perception and it is fine for me. Remember that you experience exactly what thoughts are, which means the limits that you impose yourself, limit what you can do.

Try it and see for yourself the results .




Thruthseek3r

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

So far you've dropped 'disinfo' and 'destiny' into the discussion and hold the belief that people deserve what they get. Deep down I suspect you aspire to being a dictator

Good luck with that!

I saw the video about positive thinking and I feel this answer comes straight after the watch of the so said video. As I said in a previous post, its the intention behind the action that truly justify if it is good or not. It does not mean anybody who try to use positive thinking is a dictator

. It is what I call a generalization of a case which is not representative of the real situation.




Thruthseek3r

reply to post by 1littlewolf


I had to thank you for bringing up the thread related to the Law of Attraction which I did not do any research in order to find it.


Thanks to you brother,





Thruthseek3r

Originally posted by thruthseek3r
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

Me and other ATSers here have already experienced how real it is and know what is its potential. The point was to present this theory, without any intention of convincing anybody, to offer people another possibility of thinking.



This is a contradiction in terms,if you and other members know it is real then it is no longer a theory.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian

Originally posted by thruthseek3r
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

Me and other ATSers here have already experienced how real it is and know what is its potential. The point was to present this theory, without any intention of convincing anybody, to offer people another possibility of thinking.



This is a contradiction in terms,if you and other members know it is real then it is no longer a theory.

The fact it is a theory or not is not the point. By the way it was not mentioned in my first post as being a theory. Second, even if there would be contradiction (which there is not) would not make the Law less significant nor less a possibility to be honest.




Thruthseek3r

There are already some very good threads on the subject here on ATS. Nice to see people still interested.

Lifelong student of 'belief'. There is no question in my mind that 'attraction' works to some degree, but sadly it is so polluted in new age kookiness now that it's been branded a laughable topic whenever it comes up. I see it more as programming the mind with 'expectations'. I don't bring any Gods or the universe into it. I've studied the lives of amazingly driven people in history, and it's not hard to see the attributes they all have in common. Many of them come from very different religious/political backgrounds. I am very skeptical of any metaphysical explanation for the process, but I don't rule it out entirely either. My opinion is that belief is what empowers prayer, meditation, magick, manifestation..etc. I'm convinced that the power of our beliefs do shape and form our individual realities. Stress-related disease, placebo, medical miracles ..etc are also interesting facts to consider.

Originally posted by thruthseek3r
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

I had to thank you for bringing up the thread related to the Law of Attraction which I did not do any research in order to find it.


Thanks to you brother,


Thruthseek3r

Not a problem. Skyfloating - the author of that thread - is actually an author and has written a number of books on LoA. It is quite extensive and I have only managed to get through about 1/4 of it myself. But just about every question you ever wanted to ask on LoA has been asked and it is very informative.

In case you were interested I started a thread a while ago on some of the mechanics behind spells and LoA called The Power of Thought - Vibrations, Magick and the Law of Attraction. It didn't really go into detail but was more an attempt to link various magical systems together along with LoA.