Government Motors Volt Costs Taxpayers $250,000 per Vehicle

reply to post by jdub297


The post above yours slammed and debunked everything in your posts so go quietly away and sulk in silence.

I know it just irks you that Americans are still being employed in America. That an American company is still around.

Resorting to name calling is a typical sign of the defeated!

The following more then applies to you and Agustus :
Frequent Reasons People Defend Unjust, Inept and/or Corrupt Systems (more than one may apply at any given moment):
Ignorant to problem
Apathetic to Problem
Scared of Problem
Found way to benefit from Problem
See membership amongst those benefitting from Problem
Fear being on outside of Problem
Causing Problem

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

That means the taxpayer still controls 61% stake of shares in the company until it's paid off completely end of discussion.

End of your small-minded dishonesty:

The IPO was at $33, the stock trades at $20, steadily falling. We've lost nearly 50% of our investment already.

On top of the illegal $14,000,000,000 tax write-offs.
On top of the $28,000,000.000 of bailout money we'll never get back.
On top of the $26,000,000,000 in lost stock value.

It's not a failure.

You have a warped idea of "success."

deny ignorants

jw

reply to post by jdub297


A companies stock performance is in no way an indication of their corporate sales performance as a comapny can sell out on just about everything and have it's stock tank at the same time.

Your lie has already been disproven in the last page!

Ever wonder why the stock is stagnent? It's because the entire stock market is virtually flat and has been hovering between 11,200 - 12,500 for the last 3 years and hasn't risen higher then that, this affects all companies and not just GM. No one's stock is performing at record levels. Besides, it's all manipulated to "leverage" those companies into submission. Besides, if The SCUM decides one day to wipe 60% of the value off of GM stock, it'll happen and there'd be nothing anyone can do about it. See how the Little Kid Games are continuing?

It's like I said, go complain to the banks about the $16 Trillion they got that we'll never see back before you dare flip on GM for getting table scraps! The Federal Reserve gave FOREIGN BANKS $16 Trillion with no resistance and no interest or concessions!

Just admit it, you want Ford, Chrysler, GM, 3M, Dow Chemical, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay and all US companies to fail so that your foreign corporate masters could come in and take jobs from Americans and to totally kill the nation's economy and hope on changing this direction.

Japan, Germany and Korea all subsidize their auto industry. The Japanese government may have totally underwritten the development of the Prius according to some claims.

All this libertarian bluster about free markets from Ron Paul and the rest of the GOP might work in 18th century America, but what would happen to us in an interconnected global economy where everyone else (especially China) isn't playing by the same rules?

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Indigo5
Right Wing "think tank" literally funded by Koch and a dozen other oil companies..Exxon Mobile etc.

And I use the word "Think tank" very loosely since most agree the research and reporting they do would get a seventh grader tossed from school if they tried to pass it off as legitimate.

Seriously??? SO Koch, Exxon Mobile et al want to mock up numbers to crush alternate fuels?

Riiight...More BS from the greediest men on earth.

When I was in school, my evidence professor reminded us that, "if the facts are on your side, argue the facts; if the law is on your side, argue the law; and, if neither the law nor the facts are on your side, shoot the messenger."

Funny...cuz when I was in school they taught basic math.....

Once again...

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by jdub297

 

Debunked here

If You Want To Attack The Volt, Try To Get Your Math Right
www.greencarreports.com...

AND HERE

Bad math makes claim that each Volt cost taxpayers $250,000 go viral
green.autoblog.com...

"Fact: Each Volt does not – emphatically not – have $250,000 in taxpayer subsidies in it. The way that Hohman got to this figure is by taking the amount of state and federal assistance used to make the car (through loans to build or update manufacturing facilities, for example) and then divide by 6,000. Why 6,000? Because that's around how many GM has sold thus far. It's actually 6,142 for 2011 as of the end of November, but exact numbers are not Hohman's strong suit.

"This figure also wouldn't pass an MBA accounting course as it assumes that you're only going to sell 6,000 cars. Ever. It's artificially low because some of these subsidies are 20-year grants."

AND HERE

Setting it Straight: Chevy Volt vs. the Government
www.thestreet.com...

"Thus, if you divide this $1.5 billion "investment" over 60 million cars over the next 25+ years instead of the 6,000 made over the last year, or the 60,000 to be made next year, the alleged government subsidy comes to $25 per car, or what you will pay for two movie tickets in Manhattan, popcorn excluded. That's very different from the nasty $250,000 per Volt headline floating all over the Internet in the last couple of days."

edit on 2-1-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

The post above yours slammed and debunked everything in your posts so go quietly away and sulk in silence.

That entire line of reasonong is based upon speculation that GM will sell 60,000,000 Volts over 20 years!

Silly guess-work by pro-green organizations means nothing in the face of GM's acknowledgement that the figures are correct! The guess-work assumes that all of the subsidies paid (and they all agree that they have been paid) are over and done. This ignores that the plants, workers and imported materials will continue so long as the Volt stays in production.

How long do you think that a manufacturer that has lost $20 billion of its original market capitalization in 1 year will last?
(1.6 billion shares at $33 - 1.6 billion shares at $20)
GM is going down the tubes precisely because if Obama's intervention.

When are YOU going to give that lost "investment" back to the individuals, retirees, and pension funds who've lost their "nest egg" relying upon false promises, illegal subsidies and tax credits, and cooked books?

I know it just irks you that Americans are still being employed in America. That an American company is still around.

You "know" no such thing. Your insupportable protestations about my intent or beliefs are ridiculous and pathetically false.
Your socialist bent, and pretense of Anglophilia are sad and unfortunate. I am truly sorry for you and your associates.

It is this ignorance of facts and economic reality that will destroy American jobs and industry.

Where is that "ignore" button?

deny ignorants

jw

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

How sad and lonely it must be to be so out of touch with the real world.

Most GOP'rs are Anti American because they want to take this nation back to the mid 1800's

At least you've revealed your political (as opposed to rational) motives for such extended misrepresentation and ignorance of facts and economics.

Actually, it is Obama, Chu and the socialist green movement who are actively seeking to do this.
The promised 80% reduction by 2050 in GHGs they have advocated are the same levels of the early 1800s!

It is your misguided ilk that seek the destruction of American insustry and innovation.
Under your new EPA regs, we will lose 20% of our electrical generation capacity in the next 5 years.
You and your kind have vitually eliminated any chance for energy independence in the foreseeable future.

deny ignorants

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

The post above yours slammed and debunked everything in your posts so go quietly away and sulk in silence.

That entire line of reasonong is based upon [u/]speculation that GM will sell 60,000,000 Volts [u/]over 20 years!

First off...maybe edit the underline function in you last post.

Secondly...the loans were 20 years...the first year they sold 6000...so assuming they would sell around 2500 volts per year over the next 20 as Technology improves etc. is actually a profoundly conservative estimate.

Any way you slice it...you have to have enough brain matter to see how the math flunks any examination.

Pfizer may spend a Billion dollars to develop an erection pill...and if you looked at sales at the end of thier first year after releasing it, you would claim that the pills cost them a million dollars a tablet! Everyone with a modicum of intelligence understands economies of scale and time...everyone without an idealogical agenda rotting their brain.

reply to post by jdub297


They will sell a million in ten years, not 60 Million over 20 years. The tech developed for the Volt will however be expanded to other cars in the range. Your claims are debunked.

reply to post by Indigo5


Volt Gen 2 is due sometime by 2017 - 2018. Most Big Pharm companies take 10 - 15 years before a new pill turns a profit.

Notice on another topic how there are more lawyer ads over defective and unsafe pills as of late, that's deregulation and limited Govt at work right there.

reply to post by Indigo5

assuming they would sell around 2500 volts per year over the next 20 as Technology improves etc. is actually a profoundly conservative estimate.

They cannot sell consumersa single vehicle without subsidies; what makes you think they will sell them for 20 years? The company will be gone in about a year if the stock trend holds up:
Dow, 2011, UP 1%.
S&P 500, 2011, UP 2%.

GM, 2011, DOWN 45%. ($20.21/$37.03)

Your "projections" are laughable, at best.
If it weren't for GE's promised fleet purchases, and those of local and federal agencies, there would be no reason to continue production at all, much less 20 years.

deny ignorance

jw

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by DelMarvel

 

The only reason why the Prius isn't being ostracized and slammed to the high Heaven's is because it's a foreign car and we all know how much the GOPAzzhats love for a foreign company to have a success but God forbid an American company has a success and watch them get slammed for it.

Most GOP'rs are Anti American because they want to take this nation back to the mid 1800's where the only group of people who had rights were Caucasian males, women could be beat by their hubbies for not having dinner ready in time, where African Americans were slaves, where Native American Indians were slaves!

Wait, I thought you didnt play into partisan politics?

I abandoned the corrupt "Left-v-Right" paradigm long ago and now bat and play for only one team and that is The United States Of America! So sorry!

I thought you were anti two party bickering.......

Again.........POLITICAL TROLLING

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I still am as anyone not for helping get our nation off of oil is Anti American and is working against us!

The facts have been confirmed that only one group stands against this nation moving forward, one group hates the fact that an AMERICAN company can still provide jobs in AMERICA, one group hates the fact that the military industrial complex is on it's last legs, only one group hates the fact that gays, Africans, Muslims have rights in America!

reply to post by jdub297


What about Federal tax credits and rebates for fleet sales of trucks? You forgot about this? That's a subsidy and a bailout using GOP terminology!

Originally posted by DelMarvel
Japan, Germany and Korea all subsidize their auto industry. The Japanese government may have totally underwritten the development of the Prius according to some claims.

All this libertarian bluster about free markets from Ron Paul and the rest of the GOP might work in 18th century America, but what would happen to us in an interconnected global economy where everyone else (especially China) isn't playing by the same rules?

It is not government Subsidies that these groups are opposed to...

The "Mackinac Center for Public Policy" who issued the article with flunkie math is directly funded by Koch Industries, Exxon Mobile and a dozen other Oil companies.
en.wikipedia.org...

The same Oil Industry that gets over 3 Billion a year in taxpayer subsidies rain or shine. They made a healthy profit last year, but still pocketed the subsidies.

In that context them being opposed to new technology subsidies that might lessen our dependance on OIL makes perfect sense.

When someone totals up the cost in US Soldiers lives, the defense budget and our escapades in the middle east over the past decade and assigns that cost to a gallon of gas, ...and adds in the Billions taxpayers give in subsidies to oil companies for the pleasure of paying $4 dollars a gallon and being in perpetual war...then we can start to do some real math, until then...

This is just a rinse and repeat of the same propaganda that comes from Oil funded idiots everytime someone suggests the insane idea changing our crack-addict addition to oil.

Nothing new...money buys propaganda and the status qou costs trillions and american lives...but as long as someone gets rich...amen.

For efs sake...finding an alternate energy to oil should be the one thing everyone agrees to subsidize. Being able to tell the middle east we have absolutely no use for them anymore and they can work their own sh*& out amongst themselves should be our countries first and foremost goal.

Until then...Trillions in tax breaks and subsidies for the same people who lie to us everytime we try to do something different than what we have done.

The energy problem WILL be solved...either by us or China. china has the advantage right now in capability to get sh^% done without the idealogical politics....Americans have the advantage of being the greatest innovators and inventors on the planet...we invented the automobile. But as long as we are hobbled by this kind of self interested propaganda campaigns and those partisans who embrace it, China will eat our lunch. Sad, but true.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

You have to get completely off-topic to try to make a point; and even then you get it absurdly wrong!

Notice on another topic how there are more lawyer ads over defective and unsafe pills as of late, that's deregulation and limited Govt at work right there.

Please name a SINGLE drug that got to market without the FDA and NIH approval.
Please name a single pharmaceutical regulation that was repealed over the past 20 years.

You can't.

Because your imaginary premise is completely baseless and without a shred of factual support.
(As are most of your other idiotic assertions thus far.)

There's your government "oversight" at work!

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by jdub297


The Offices of James Sokolove, Esq. of Wellesley, MA is handling like a dozen or so malpractice lawsuits and spends $20 Mill advertising his services!

www.sokolovelaw.com...

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Indigo5

 

assuming they would sell around 2500 volts per year over the next 20 as Technology improves etc. is actually a profoundly conservative estimate.

They cannot sell consumersa single vehicle without subsidies; what makes you think they will sell them for 20 years? The company will be gone in about a year if the stock trend holds up:
Dow, 2011, UP 1%.
S&P 500, 2011, UP 2%.

GM, 2011, DOWN 45%. ($20.21/$37.03)

Please...dont try to be a stock analyst..

Ford...dropped from 18 a share to 10 a share this year...-45%

GM has some tweaking to do in it's operations and they are aware of it, but the Auto industry in the US took a hit this year, not just GM.

A bad quarter does not spell the end of GM, it spells a bad quarter.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jdub297

 

The Offices of James Sokolove, Esq. of Wellesley, MA is handling like a dozen or so malpractice lawsuits and spends $20 Mill advertising his services!

www.sokolovelaw.com...

Doesnt matter, they were still released to the public...........you are off topic, and derailing because you cannot defend your positions with facts