Canada to sell oil to China

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


I wouldn't be so sure there Roadrunner...
When you add up Libya, [Qaddafi is gone] Saudi Arabia [Major US/West Oil Allie] Iraq [] and Venezuela [Doesnt Chavez have Cancer?] That adds up to a large percentage of their present supply...

They'll need a lot more than that in order to maintain further growth [which is their plan]



A Few Reasons Why China Has Even Less Energy Security Than America

Read more: articles.businessinsider.com...

Both the US and China import about half of their crude oil. For America the lion's share comes from Canada and Mexico, as well as steadfast ally Saudi Arabia.

But China's supply is more precarious, according to a new report from the Brookings Institution.

China is more dependent on Middle Eastern oil than the US. The protest movements in the Middle East leaves that supply in jeopardy. To solve that problem, they have been reaching out to oil producing countries in Africa, offering generous aid packages in exchange for easy access to oil fields.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN


Lots of Canadian Oil Companies holding Joint Ventures with China instead of the US now.

Less red-tape, the cash is there up-front and no shortage of demand. I was hoping for the pipeline to be run from AB to TX, to get some more jobs here in Alberta and the US but...

We're still waiting on Obama's signature.

ca.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

We don't need anymore jobs in Alberta. We need less jobs, to bring prices on everything back down so that the people not in the oilfield can afford goods and services again, small businesses can afford to hire staff again. I have always thought we should be selling our oil to the highest bidder and not be doing any favors for the Americans.

If anything, we need to build more refineries and export finished product so we can have larger domestic supply, as well as be able to get more money from it.

reply to post by SLAYER69


In China domestic transportation isn't nearly as critical as it is to the USA, which is why oil (prices) have so much more impact here on the US economy. Not to mention the heavy taxes we pay on fuel here.

We are far more reliant on oil from ALL sources than China in that regard.

But, your points are taken, and are accurate.

The comparisons don't really cover all angles here... China obviously needs more oil, as every nation does to expand their economies... How many cars per people are their in China ... vs the USA... Trucks?

Coal, nuclear, NG, and others??

Rail transport...

Etc..

It is a bit more complex ... But if China can take control of any oil supply from the US, that is a strategic move, more than an economic one.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Aren't we force to sell oil to the US because of NAFTA agreements?

Harper is just doing this for show... he's a globalist puppet.

This is a myth.

We are only required to offer for sale to the US companies at the same rate that we offer Canadian companies.

The only reason Canada has not been supplying to global markets is our lack of ports for oil transportation.

General Reply.

It is already too late for the US with Keystone.

The day that Keystone was put on hold, 5 refineries and upgraders (10 total) were approved for immediate construction starts in Canada.

That means that the long term economic spin offs for the US have already been significantly reduced (best guess is by approx 65%).

The oil that was supposed to be refined in the US and sold on global markets (profits for both Canada and the US) will now be refined in Canada within 10 years. At that point the US will only be able to capitalize the shipping gains as Canada is currently grid locked on port expansions. However, I expect that to change shortly as well.

Keystone 'would' have been a massive economic boost for both countries, now it will only be a massive economic boost for one. What can you do?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
It is a bit more complex ... But if China can take control of any oil supply from the US, that is a strategic move, more than an economic one.

Canada selling China oil is not "Taking control of any oil supply from the US"

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
It is a bit more complex ... But if China can take control of any oil supply from the US, that is a strategic move, more than an economic one.

Canada selling China oil is not "Taking control of any oil supply from the US"

China will demand exclusivity and signed binding contracts.. That is taking control.



It's not quite like buying a few thousand barrels at a time.

But, we'll see eh?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
China will demand exclusivity and signed binding contracts.. That is taking control.

It's not quite like buying a few thousand barrels at a time.

But, we'll see eh?

Not going to happen.

To do so would require breaching existing contracts that would make it far to costly.

The only thing China can ask (and that Canada can offer) is binding contracts in terms of new supplies. Which Canada is obligated by law to offer to US companies as well.

reply to post by peck420


We'll see... If Canada can be bought off here.

China has its eyes on the prize ... Money talks they say.

I just had another thought and maybe I am understanding it wrong. If China has discarded the value of the U.S. dollar and Chinas central bank is back based by oil value(as they all are today) what is it that they will be paying with? The conversion of the yuan to Canadian dollars would be backed by the oil they purchased meaning Canada gives the oil for nothing? or in the long run either China pays them back in oil or Chinas debt is payed by other countries?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

In China domestic transportation isn't nearly as critical as it is to the USA, which is why oil (prices) have so much more impact here on the US economy. Not to mention the heavy taxes we pay on fuel here.

Yea, they don't appear to rely on domestic transportation at all.

reply to post by RSF77


No they really don't compare to the fuel usage per person in the USA.

No matter what roads and cars in pictures show.

How many Chinese people drive a car?

How many trucks haul goods in China long distances?

China has a population 1,338,299,500 (estimated)

The USA has 307,006,550 (estimated)

Now, go run the numbers and see which is more dependent on "oil"

How much diesel and gasoline per person does China use compared to the same in the USA per person?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Canada selling China oil is not "Taking control of any oil supply from the US"

China finds oil in Tibet

Chinese geologists are reported to have discovered a vast oil deposit in a remote part of northern Tibet. The oil deposit in the Qiangtan Basin extends over 100 kilometres (60 miles) and may hold as much as 100 million tonnes of oil, according the official Xinhua news agency.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Oil in Tibet and gold, uranium and more

What is the reason behind America’s sudden interest in Tibet, the Buddhist ideology of 1649 Dalai Lama preserving animal and nature (we certainly could be preserving nature at home) or is it what is under nature? Tibet has the world’s largest reserve of uranium, and in addition to gold and copper, large quantities of oil and gas were discovered in Qiangtang Basin in western China's remote Tibet area[iii]. A friendly Dalai Lama would help reimburse the CIA subsidies, and much more.

www.globalresearch.ca...

China invites oil firms to join invasion of Tibet

The Chinese government is to woo foreign companies such as BP and Shell to explore for oil in Tibet. The controversial move follows a failure by the partly state-owned PetroChina to realise Beijing's hopes that the disputed land could quickly become a major source of fuel for energy-starved China.

www.guardian.co.uk...

BP?

Exxon Pipeline to China Is Blocked

ExxonMobil has been denied permission to start work on a gas pipeline to China from Sakhalin-1 this year, the Industry and Energy Ministry said. The government also refused to allow Exxon to invest in drilling oil deposits discovered near the Sakhalin-1 boundaries, the ministry said. The government approved a 2008 budget of $1.26 billion for Sakhalin-1 instead of the $1.84 billion sought by Exxon. The higher figure included spending on the gas pipeline and drilling for the contested oil resources. Gazprom has said it needs gas from Sakhalin-1 for domestic consumption. Exxon's partners in Sakhalin-1 are Rosneft, Japan's Sodeco and India's ONGC.

www.ruscham.com...

Pressure builds over Tibetan gas pipeline (UPI)

BEIJING, Feb. 6 (UPI) -- British oil firm BP Amoco has been facing growing pressure to divest from PetroChina, the Chinese state-run oil company building a gas pipeline through ethnic Tibetan areas.

www.tibet.ca...

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
No they really don't compare to the fuel usage per person in the USA.

No matter what roads and cars in pictures show.

*Per Person fuel usage is irrelevant here.

China almost nearly has as many total cars on the road as the US does presently. Remember, they can crush us with shear numbers not how many cars per household or per person usage. Not only that but by 2015 they will have accomplished their goal of a vast country wide highway system modeled on the US's interstate system.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
How much diesel and gasoline per person does China use compared to the same in the USA per person?

if only 10% of Chinese use only 25% of the gas Americans do... recalculate your figure

Also China has built a huge infrastructure of super highways. Since the new policy that allows Chinese to make money as long as they stay out of politics how long before those highways are filled?

reply to post by SLAYER69


As an ATSer I'm sure you'll love this link:

www.cia.gov...

Barrels per day:

USA: 19,150,000

China: 9,189,000

Consumption!

Again consider populations and run the numbers, and tell me which nation is more dependent on oil?

Originally posted by zorgon
China finds oil in Tibet

Chinese geologists are reported to have discovered a vast oil deposit in a remote part of northern Tibet. The oil deposit in the Qiangtan Basin extends over 100 kilometres (60 miles) and may hold as much as 100 million tonnes of oil, according the official Xinhua news agency.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Although 100 million tonnes is nothing to sneeze at, it is hardly enough to satisfy Chinese needs.

100 million tonnes of oil is approx 733 million barrels. (BP Conversion Chart)

Chinese consumption is currently 8.2 million barrels / day.

So that reserve (if they could claim 100%) is only good for 89 days.

We can also calculate from the same with some additional factors to expose how much more the USA and specifically the US economy is dependent on oil, MUCH more so than the Chinese.

It is, despite efforts to dismiss it, one of the USA's greatest economic vulnerabilities.

The Chinese love vulnerabilities.

For they are also, opportunities.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


Thats exactly right.

They are consuming more and more each passing day. The US isn't growing 9% like China is [Even though that's artificial IMO] per year. How soon do you think they'll reach the same level of consumption as the US at that Growth rate?

They have already started importing more than 50% of their oil as is now. The US and China are roughly at parity as per the amounts they both produce domestically vs what they import, [Percentage wise] Yet, that isn't factored in with the link you've provided. When China reaches the level of the US in numbers they'll have a much larger and drastic reliance on foreign oil than the US does presently ..