Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

reply to post by vogon42


I'm just being realistic here. Do modern people repent of mortal sins or do they keep doing it without pause, laughing at the stupidity of anyone who warns them to stop? Children these days laugh at the idea of faith, so without any scientific evidence they will take nothing seriously.

My philosophy is dark because I know there is a spiritual fire out there. Those who don't know that do not know what horrors they are getting themselves into.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by 547000
So just leave it at "don't sin, mkay. sins are bad, mkay" and leave it to it, not even explaining why? I think you're being naive. At any rate I am glad I don't plan on having children. They won't even believe the explanation of hell until much later in their lives, mostly never. What's the use of having a child if you know they are most likely to go to such a horrible place?

WOW.
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly that you have NO BUSINESS parenting a child!!

And I suspect you had crap parenting as a kid yourself. Quite a twisted concept of "nurturing" and "responsibility" you have going on there!!

Have you ever considered what life could be like if you'd never heard of Hell? But had been taught compassion, kindness, and the Golden Rule? Yikes. Relax. You'll give yourself a heart attack!

Yes, they would be defending abortion and committing fornication because "it hurts no one". Raised very permissively and not in a religious household, so I completely disagree with my parent's loose parenting because I understand how I became arrogant as a youth. If I were raised with more attention and with better examples of charity I might not have been an insufferable prick who laughed at the christian God. But it's maybe not even up to them but the peers I had hung with and the websites I would visit, always hardening my heart.

reply to post by 547000

Yes, they would be defending abortion and committing fornication because "it hurts no one". Raised very permissively and not in a religious household, so I completely disagree with my parent's loose parenting because I understand how I became arrogant as a youth. If I were raised with more attention and with better examples of charity I might not have been an insufferable prick who laughed at the christian God. But it's maybe not even up to them but the peers I had hung with and the websites I would visit, always hardening my heart.

Ah, I see. You entered the wide wide world of adolescent rebellion and made some choices that you now regret. Hmm. Well, you can always change your ways, you know. But in the end, you made the choices that you made. It's okay to wish you'd had more appropriate guidance, but there were other people around whom you could have chosen to spend your time with instead.

And just in the spirit of uplifting your spirits, you'll get another chance. There really is no hell. There is karma, and a "resting time" between lives in a body, where you will endure some suffering, but it's directly proportionate to what YOU imagine it to be...and then it passes, and you are once more at peace, and reflect on your past life in a body, and with help from spiritual guides you'll make a plan to try again. Don't worry. Just do your best. All is not lost.

(recommended reading: The Tibetan Book of the Dead)

I'm pretty sure there is a hell. I felt a horrid spiritual fire burning me. Too many people like to write it off. But I think there is a hell, and it's the worst place any human can be. It's not loving to leave out the warning much needed about that place simply because it is not comfortable to talk about.

Here's the thing. You don't believe in hell so you see it as something not needed to be discussed about. But the people who do believe in hell realize how much more important it is the children know about it so they won't lose their child to it. It may be uncomfortable, but I don't think ignorance is much of an excuse to God.

Likewise, I would not tell kids about santa. If we lie about the little things how will they believe the big things?

Originally posted by 547000
Yes, they would be defending abortion and committing fornication because "it hurts no one". Raised very permissively and not in a religious household, so I completely disagree with my parent's loose parenting because I understand how I became arrogant as a youth. If I were raised with more attention and with better examples of charity I might not have been an insufferable prick who laughed at the christian God. But it's maybe not even up to them but the peers I had hung with and the websites I would visit, always hardening my heart.

edit on 19-12-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

It's interesting that you feel that way, because I was raised as a Christian but always wished I had been raised without religion so I could learn the truth for myself without the childhood brainwashing. My parents were moderate about religion and didn't push Christianity on me, but I still feel like I've been brainwashed.

The ideal would be if parents taught self discipline, love, hard work, etc. and left the religion for the children to explore if and when they want. But I can't blame parents for trying to keep their kids from going to hell if that's what they believe will happen to unbelievers. Most people I know whose parents tried to scare them with religion rebelled against it.

reply to post by 547000

But the people who do believe in hell realize how much more important it is the children know about it so they won't lose their child to it. It may be uncomfortable, but I don't think ignorance is much of an excuse to God.

547000, you seem to be sincerely tormented by this. It's unfortunate that you're so convinced...just remember, the Truth is NOT determined by a show of hands. Hell is an idea, and there is no proof of it. There are billions of people in the world who do NOT believe in it.

Why are so you sure it does? You felt remorse. That is good. You felt bad for what you did. That is good, too. Are you still behaving the way that made you feel so badly?

Why are you so ready to dismiss those who would offer you some comfort, reduce your fears of an imaginary consequence, and help you to forgive yourself? No one is perfect. We've all made mistakes. We've all done things we regretted later. That is actually what living is supposed to do for us. I hope one day you are able to see that your past mistakes were learning opportunities, and not an irrevocable damnation of the soul. Your parents chose their own style of parenting. You now feel it was inadequate and that you are condemned because they somehow failed you.

What if I told you that Hell is as much of a lie as Santa Claus?

reply to post by cloudyday

The ideal would be if parents taught self discipline, love, hard work, etc. and left the religion for the children to explore if and when they want.

That's what I thought. So that's how I raised my kids. It was not the way I was raised...and yes, I was "brainwashed" with low self-esteem. (EDIT TO CLARIFY: insofar as initially believing what I was hearing in church...that I was unworthy and never got it right.)

I exposed my two kids to several different doctrines, but forced none of them on them as "truth." Now they are in their early 20s, and I ask them what they think, and we discuss it.

Critical thinking is the skill most needed to navigate the treacherous waters of "religion".

Originally posted by vogon42
As a child I can remember being forced to wear clothes that choked me, so I could sit (quietly) and listen to a man rant about fire and brimstone. About how we are all sinners doomed to hell. Then he would pass around a plate, and my parents would PAY for this. I soon learned to block the preaching out so I would not allow myself to feel damned and worthless.

However, I have other friends that also had the wonderful experience of forced confession (remember we are talking about children here), it does not take a lot to make a child feel forced. Certainly a man dressed in fancy robes, standing on a pulpit 9ft above you and screaming damnation could cause a child to feel forced.

Many I know would, as children, invent things to confess.....simply out of fear of what would happen if they had nothing to confess.

Years later while attending a LE academy, we covered the emotional abuse section of the child abuse subject. From that education, it really appears that my (and others) childhood experience with christianity seriously borderlines (if it isn't actually) emotional abuse.

Just curious to know how many others out there have this same viewpoint.

If this is what happened to you then yes this is child abuse, but I PROMISE you this is not what Christ taught so that was not Christianity no matter what the church called it.

Christianity can be summed up in one simple phrase.
Love, trust, and have faith enough to do God's will, and you will go to heaven.

I am deeply saddened by your experience and I pray for you and for mercy for those who subjected you to that treatment.

If it is possible, I would encourage you to know that there is a better way than what you were taught. If possible I encourage you to read the bible one more time fully open to letting God explain Christianity. I understand if it is not possible and I pray for you.

reply to post by wildtimes

There are billions of people in the world who do NOT believe in it.

Oh! Well, here you go! Obviously that means it doesn't exist!

Definition:
An appeal to numbers is an informal fallacy which occurs when someone tries to argue that because something is or has been popular or widely believed/done, then that is a good reason for others to do it or continue to do it. But the number of people who believe a thing is in no way a basis for thinking that this belief is true, valid or moral. Here are two examples (the first is from our forum):

Appeal to Numbers Fallacy

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And you are sure it does.....why? Proof, please. Not a 2000-year old story book.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And you are sure it does.....why? Proof, please. Not a 2000-year old story book.

Because it is a MARKETING scheme, thats how preachers make money.
(unless your aware of a preacher with a second job.....I've never met one)

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wildtimes

 

There are billions of people in the world who do NOT believe in it.

Oh! Well, here you go! Obviously that means it doesn't exist!

Like I said, the TRUTH is NOT determined by a show of hands.

EDIT TO ADD: *series of facepalms* ....*and a bunch o' thumbs downs.*.

Gullible much?
Your own ex-text is what I'm talking about. Just because some so-called "Christians" believe it, does not make it the truth.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Thank you. Its nice to see there are a few christians out there who understand tolerance and compassion. Most simply want to condemn others for not following their beliefs.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


BTW, would you care to explain to us how you are "NOTurTypical Out of the Closet Jesus Freak" ????
Because so far, you look pretty typical to me.

Perhaps you can dazzle us with your insider info, and we'll all see the light....I'd welcome it. And just in case you're worried, I have made my peace with the Universal Power, and I sleep well every night knowing that I'm living to the best of my ability to follow the only rule that matters:
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

I have no fear of hell. It's easier to breathe that way while I'm busy being nice to others. Although I must admit, I DO take some comfort in knowing that those who have hurt me or other well-intentioned, bumbling humans, WILL endure the consequences of their own evil.

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Thank you. Its nice to see there are a few christians out there who understand tolerance and compassion. Most simply want to condemn others for not following their beliefs.

I wish more Christians would let God interpret the bible for them. Man has done a good job at twisting the words running around condemning their neighbors to hell. I’m not sure how one can read what Jesus said about the following first and second commandment and then go condemn their neighbor to hell.

Personally I think it is much more loving for me to pray for an unbeliever, so this is what I do. I love my neighbor even when they don’t agree with me. I think this is what Jesus would prefer.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Personally I think it is much more loving for me to pray for an unbeliever, so this is what I do. I love my neighbor even when they don’t agree with me. I think this is what Jesus would prefer.

Oh, I'm not an unbeliever, I just don't buy into the christianity thing.

I remember as a boy sitting in this big fancy church and thinking.....god didn't build this church, god didn't make all these gold an silver crosses, candle holders....etc.
At the same time (growing up in the country), when I would sit in the woods.....there I would feel spiritual... the trees, birds, deer......THAT I can believe a higher power has a hand in the creation of.

reply to post by vogon42


I agree Jesus said

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Mathew 19:21

I don't remember reading go spend all your money to build a fancy church so you can follow me. I wish more Christians would follow Jesus. Someday I hope to have the faith to sell all I have and give to the poor.

reply to post by vogon42


I didn't know Christians had to go to confession...

I have a friend who told me that when he was a kid.
he believed that he would go to hell if bad.
and IF good would be nailed to a cross !

reply to post by wildtimes


My last post said...

Are there exceptions in Christian homes, where we see poor upbringing? Yes. Any home that lacks love and humble examples of dedication to others will see failure in leadership as the primary cause of any problem. Neglect is not simply a problem for those who do not attend church. In the end, it comes down to the choice we are willing to make by example as parents. A true Christian home or place of worship will model loving-kindness and a spirit of compassion to others. If not, true faith is not practiced.

I made it clear there are exceptions on each side. It boils down to nurture. The OP wants to suggest that Christian upbringing is child abuse. I simply point out that the abuse is not at the hands of Christian theology, but the result of poor choices by humans. Exceptions abound on each side of the aisle. Anyone who teaches their children to give and to love will see fruit form this witness.