Humanizing/Dehumanizing the Messiah....what do you actually expect....

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The crucial question is this;
The God who spoke through Moses and the prophets claimed to be the Creator of the world.
Did the Creator that you want to acknowledge speak through Moses and the prophets? If the answer is "Yes", then welcome to the ranks of Biblical believers.
If the answer is "No", then you are acknowledging that they are not the same god. Which makes them different gods. Which makes it logically impossible, at one and the same time, to hold to the God who spoke through Moses and the prophets, and also to hold to the one who did not speak through Moses and the prophets. One of them must be wrong, by logical necessity.

edit on 16-12-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

In the old testament bible, it was mentioned that the God who spoke to Moses also spoke to the arrogant King Nebuchadnezzer, and used him as a lesson to teach the jews.

Now, was the God of Moses also the God of Nebuchadnezzar II, whom later learnt humility to praise and honor God? By your flow and sense of logic, it would not be, for you claim exclusivity of our Creator when He had not, even on bliblical texts that you held dear.

Thus, would a jew accept as such, or go against the word of our common Creator and deny that Nebuchanezzar was touched by Him, just as you are now denying that He is not the Creator of the rest of humanity and taught them as well?

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In the new testament from book of Matthew, the Messiah was approached by a greek (Syrophenician), whom were regarded as pagans then, to heal her daughter, he replied that he was sent only for the lost sheeps of Israel and he tested her faith in the Creator, by remarking that it was not fitting to toss bread meant for children to the dogs. Her reply was that even dogs get to eat crumbs from their master's table.

Her faith passed the test, and through the Messiah, our Creator healed her daughter. Thus, our Creator and Messiah loves us all, not just the lost sheeps if Israel, or They wouldn't have cared and a miracle recorded for future generations to comprehend.

How more then, the 3 great mainstream religions of planet Earth - Judaism, Islam, Christianity whom shares the same book and know the same Creator, should co-exist peacefully amongst each other than to be fighting and killing one another today? We had only been calling other religionists as 'pagans' thru ignorance, stupidity and self religio exclusivity when they too had been worshipping the same Creator all the time.

Hindus too believe in a supreme being that gave them civilisation, but over time, man had warped that religion into something else, just as the radical jews, muslims and christians had. Buddhism is NOT a religion, but only a way of life. Atheists are but only fellow human brothers and sisters whom had yet to know and acknowledge our common Creator, not at our time, but in His time.

I do not seek to take away your free will, to believe as you will, for that is a divine right given that no mortal can take away. I know that you prefer to find comfort in your old ways, just as the jewish rabbis , irrational christian church leaders and clerical immans had done so, for truth and realities are often painful to bear. So be it that you find comfort and solace in your delusions, so long as you harm and hurt no fellow brothers and sisters, nor seek to hinder them on their path to the truth.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
n the old testament bible, it was mentioned that the God who spoke to Moses also spoke to the arrogant King Nebuchadnezzer, and used him as a lesson to teach the jews.

Now, was the God of Moses also the God of Nebuchadnezzar II, whom later learnt humility to praise and honor God? By your flow and sense of logic, it would not be,

As a first point, I wrote "spoke through Moses and the prophets". In other words, this is about using them as channels of communication.
Secondly, nothing in my logic points to the conclusion you suggest.
The Biblical God described himself as the Creator of the whole world and the whole human race. Nothing in what I have written contradicts that description.

I return to the question which you quoted and completely failed to address;
That Creator whom you acknowledge; did he, or did he not, speak through Moses and the prophets in his dealings with the human race?
It's a very straightforward question, and the answer has got to be either "Yes" or "No".
If the answer is "Yes", then we're dealing with the same God.
If the answer is "No", then he's not the Biblical God.
So can you give a straightforward answer? Yes or No?

reply to post by DISRAELI


My answer to your question had always been a consistant 'yes', He was the same Creator.

You are now moving away from your position which you had continually held throughout - and that is -

'Therefore it is not logically possible to hold to the Biblical God and to those other gods at one and the same time.
One or the other, perhaps, not both.'

which you are implying that your bilical God is the only true God, but others are not.

Skip the semantics word playing and talk straight for once.

At least i can see that you are moving from your previous position to acceptance that you no longer would hold exclusivity to your biblical God and accept that He is the same Creator throughout, or did I read you wrongly this time?

As I had said, it doesnt matter. I am only insignificant. It's your free will and choice.

I think a false messiah will rise up during the end of time and seduce the Jews by fulfilling their political aspirations. He will be a worker of Satanic miracles and by these and lies he will copycat the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. The Jews, blinded to the first time the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus, will accept these fulfillments as a sign of the messiah. Israel will be a superpower by then and those who refuse to worship him will be tortured.

www.thepopeinred.com...

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

If the Creator you acknowledge did speak through Moses and the prophets, then he is the Biblical God.
Presumably, of course, you acknowledge what he said though Moses and the prophets.
In other words, as I said before, "Welcome to the ranks of the Biblical believers".

I have not changed my stance at all. I have said all along that it was not possible to hold to the Biblical God and to other gods at one and the same time.
The only difference made by your answer is that you have decided to take the "Biblical God" option out of these two incompatible choices.

In other words, if you are saying, as you say now, that the Creator God spoke through the Bible, you are agreeing with all those who say that the God who spoke through the Bible is the Creator God.

You are still hung on semantics, twisting here and there to get yourself out looking good, typical of the rabbis of old. So be it.

And to add, before you start qouting me blibical texts on the old testaments to dismiss the words from other religious texts, one thing you better keep in mind is that those blibical qoutes by those prophets were meant for that period of time, in that location and in that context, espacially for specific situations then.

Do not be robot and dogmatic in the application of religion. Religion is not about personalities or dogmas, but rather - a guide for civilisation so that we may exist out of the jungles and into the stars, a living breathing guide. And we mankind have much to share, compare notes and grow/evolve, more so now that you no longer dare hold exclusivity to your biblical God whom is only our common Creator of all humanity and taught our ancestors civilisation.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

If the Creator God spoke through Moses and the prophets (and you now accept that he did), then one of the things he said was "You shall have no other gods but me". He made a point of saying that to the Israelites before he said anything else.

Therefore, by his own statement, he cannot be included with other gods.
It has to be one or the other.
But this is back where we started, except that you are now claiming to be a Biblical believer yourself. In which case, you need to take notice of what it says.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Millions of men leave for work every morning and tell their wives that they are going, but most of them come back.
So you are not entitled to deduce "I am not coming back" from the statement "I am going".

Try this on for size. Tell your wife this...

"Honey I am leaving now. I will send you another who will be with you forever."

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Let me know what she deduces. But first, dare to tell her what she is entitled to deduce.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

"I am not coming back" does not follow from "he will be with you for ever".
The possibility remains "When I come back, we will both be with you",
"When I come back" is implied by the gospel statements already quoted.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

"I am not coming back" does not follow from "he will be with you for ever".
The possibility remains "When I come back, we will both be with you",
"When I come back" is implied by the gospel statements already quoted.

This is trivial really. Jesus is with the father and the father is within all of us. Spiritually, Jesus never left. That name and that life story has been handed down through time and preserved for future generations. In a very real sense, Jesus never left.

However, some will never be satisfied without a physical representation of Jesus to fall in behind. To those who need such a physical representation I say, I am he.

All that I ask is that if you claim Jesus is the Lord and Savior, then do what he said.

Give all your money to the poor.
Pick up your cross and follow him.
Keep his commandments to love God and your neighbor as yourself.

Do you suppose that Jesus would ask anything less?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
However, some will never be satisfied without a physical representation of Jesus to fall in behind. To those who need such a physical representation I say, I am he.

No, you're not. The one portrayed in the Christian expectation comes "like a flash of lightning", as Matthew ch24 says, acting in all the power of God.
As for you, your claim would come within Matthew ch24 v23;
"If anyone says to you 'Lo, here is the Christ"...whether in the wilderness, or in the "inner rooms", or anywhere else where you have to go somewhere to see him "...do not believe it"

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by IAMIAM
However, some will never be satisfied without a physical representation of Jesus to fall in behind. To those who need such a physical representation I say, I am he.

No, you're not. The one portrayed in the Christian expectation comes "like a flash of lightning", as Matthew ch24 says, acting in all the power of God.
As for you, your claim would come within Matthew ch24 v23;
"If anyone says to you 'Lo, here is the Christ"...whether in the wilderness, or in the "inner rooms", or anywhere else where you have to go somewhere to see him "...do not believe it"

As the lightning coming from the east is visible in the west, thanks to the internet, so to do I come.


I come to tell you that Christ is found within YOU.

Wherever the carcass is (the deceased flesh of Jesus), there will the vultures be gathered (those who feed upon that flesh).

The sun will be darkened (the sun represents Christianity which is modeled off of Roman Sun worship, and I have darkened it on this very forum).

The moon will not shed her light (Islam, I do not preach from the Quran, nor ask anyone to give it up).

Stars will fall from Heaven. Stars falling from heaven. I do afterall, teach the Torah having never read it.


Once you see him in yourself you will realise that you should not deny that he is within me.

What else do you need fulfilled?

Keep watching.

With Love,

Your Brother