Humanizing/Dehumanizing the Messiah....what do you actually expect....

I think there is a general conspiracy to make people forget that Christ arose from the people...Jesus was chosen to teach and leave a legacy and play the role of the sacrificial martyr Fish. SO more to my question when another Christ arises please just describe what you think it will be like...for instance Jesus slowly started a teaching and then it was after his death is followers continued his messages. I know the stories of the loaves and walking on water...and that is the idea...could these not be parables...Do people actually expect he will come floating around or will he be like the Jews suggest and he will be a great teacher that leads us into a golden age with knowledge he will pass on...

Please give opinions....inhuman god like being radiating light, voice like thunder levitating around, or will he be more subtle in his approach...will he arise in Govt? In Business etc....I WANT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS...

TPTB want you to think he cannot be a common man? Does he not have to be a common man to relate to the common man? Or does he have to be so amazing the common man could never strive to be like him? I'll let you decide....

If you study the other man-gods before him, you will see that he is nothing original or new.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Proof other than one silly fairy-tale book, book and fraudulent writings.

Will the brainwashed religious folks ever wake up? Thats the real question. Its been a couple thousand years already and still no sign of intelligence from the religious!!!

Originally posted by Drala
I think there is a general conspiracy to make people forget that Christ arose from the people...Jesus was chosen to teach and leave a legacy and play the role of the sacrificial martyr Fish. SO more to my question when another Christ arises please just describe what you think it will be like...for instance Jesus slowly started a teaching and then it was after his death is followers continued his messages. I know the stories of the loaves and walking on water...and that is the idea...could these not be parables...Do people actually expect he will come floating around or will he be like the Jews suggest and he will be a great teacher that leads us into a golden age with knowledge he will pass on...

Fun thread idea! Perfect for the Season of Advent.

I'll share my thoughts, from a Christian perspective.

The reference to His coming in the clouds is, perhaps, described in the form of a spiritual vision-- that surreal sort of spiritual Reality which the mind cannot fully grasp-- so the event of His return will be understood in that context when it happens, but may not be the per-conceived white robed, long-haired, floating guy.

Then again, the return of Christ Jesus is very much like the Ascension-- that the witnesses saw him Ascending-- like Enoch, and like Elijah. Christ describes the fall of Satan in the words, "I was seeing Satan fall from heaven like lightning." So the Ascension and His Coming Again may have a suddenness not imagined easily-- but will be inwardly recognized as such.

Please give opinions....inhuman god like being radiating light, voice like thunder levitating around, or will he be more subtle in his approach...will he arise in Govt? In Business etc....I WANT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS...

Again, the light, the voice, the sounding of horns, the many Angels (hosts) accompanying Him... those things will be perceived inwardly-- at least by some. Even so, I have trouble imagining His Second Coming as "subtle." More on that in a bit.

I have trouble conceiving of His taking any role in the government. "My Kingdom is not of this world." did not include the qualifier, "Yet." Christ Jesus told us that He has gone to prepare a place for us. In the Revelation to Saint John, the Kingdom of God is seen coming down to Earth. So, taking any governmental role is a distracting thought. Why would Christ Jesus bother as this earth is passing away?

TPTB want you to think he cannot be a common man? Does he not have to be a common man to relate to the common man? Or does he have to be so amazing the common man could never strive to be like him? I'll let you decide....

The PTB will be split on what to think. Some will recognize Him, all will fear Him, and some will oppose Him.

Your question reminds me of the movie, Omen II, in which the anti-Christ (Damion) is explained at the end as being exposed because Christ will return in the clouds, not reincarnated by another birth. I remember thinking, "Well, Duh!" But when I saw that as a child, I did not realize (nor did the movie hint at) that many religions are awaiting a Messiah-- not just the religions believing in the God of Abraham.

I think the event will be different for different people. I imagine it (only that) this way:

Some will be caught up in worldly affairs: What government will save us from this?
I think circumstances will be such that there will be civil unrest, panic, and flight such as cities being destroyed, plague, famine and such will make it similar to how some movies portray a nuclear World War III.

Others will wait quietly for what is to come, while others will be changed in form-- eyes opened to both the common reality that all see, but also to the spiritual Reality which goes mostly unseen in our day-to-day lives: For example, see the Angels fighting demons, and those who have been changed may (repeat, may) take part in such battles. These might not only be able to see the spiritual Reality, but participate in it much like (but not the same as) Angels are said to do-- take on forms of flesh and blood, but also be invisible to others, and not quite so bound by time and distance.

So in the common and uncommon death, destruction, and chaos of the final Time of Earth, some will take on a greatly different spiritual role with new spiritual ability, while others will see nothing but the common reality in which government are at war and all manner of human suffering is increasing.

Of either group, choice still is available-- to chose to help ones fellow humans or not; to choose to seek God and be found by Him, or not. And so both the newly "transcended" and Resurrected will choose their work, choose their fight, and act; whereas the the remaining will continue in a much degraded Earthly existence for a time-- also choosing and acting according to their choice and ability.

Well, I am no Christian, as anyone who knows me can attest. I also have problems with the authorship of the New Testament, I tend to believe it was wholly authored by the Romans at the Council of Nicea, where it was decided that Jesus was to be God, they in fact deified a man and made him a God.

However, the message in the NT is a good message. This man was a Rebel, and that I can appreciate. He hated the established religion, and sat and educated the High Priests on what they were doing wrong, and he threw out the "money changers," read that as bankers, from the Temple. He loved children, and women, and in fact loved everyone. I wish so called Christians would see the message, and stop thinking of the man as a Savoir, Messiah, and God. Jesus was not a man to be worshiped, he was a man meant to be followed. And yes, he was a man. He hurt, he bled, and he DIED. If the man knew what people do in his name, he would roll over in his grave.

From the comments of Jesus in Matthew ch24, we learn two important things about this theme.

First, when the Son of man comes, he comes with all the power of God ("on the clouds of heaven").
The idea that he would be be re-born on earth and grow up a second time is not part of the expectation.

The second point follows from the first. ANY man living on the earth, and claiming to be the returned Christ is, by definition, a false claimant. "Do not go after them". So the question of trying to identify him does not arise.

If it happens, the world will know about it. "Like a flash of lightning". There would be no room for argument.

reply to post by DISRAELI


One thing that I always wondered...symbolically if the next messiah returns and begins ministry on the internet would he note return like a bolt of lighting as the keystrokes send the data packets across the entire world?....they had a hard time to describe an email I suspect that is what they meant...although he will bring the knowledge of lightning...I assume a tesla adept of sorts.

I am sorry but I have a hard time thinking the messiah will not grow up here before his awakening....Jesus had an awakening and was baptized by John...I would suspect like moses and methusela and every other incarnation of a messiah will begin as a common man, and they will always rise out of the masses.

Analogy...the Monarch Butterfly...the Methuzela Generation had the genetic memory to lead the race away from the dangers of winter...without these mutations leading every season the entire race would die....but its still the same butterfly...they look identicle...just behave different.

The Christ is a Monarch of Man...he will have the genetic memory that will awaken when the world needs him...AS above, So below...How do you think a Monarch King is born?

Judge a man by his work...you will know him by his words and actions...WWJD...hmmmm what would he do

Again IMHO...

I am betting he is alot like Plato...but cooler lol.

reply to post by Drala


From what I have seen of this world my friend, Christ will have just as hard a time the second time around as he had the first.

The difference being that being broken on the cross is prophecy already fulfilled. Thus, there will be no breaking the second time around.

Nope. The world will break upon the truth this time around.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Drala


If He was just a common man, his life meant nothing, even if He had some great philosophy/moral teaching.

If He was God incarnate, it means God loves us enough to suffer for us and that He wants for us to love Him too.

Not a God in a distant ivory tower heaven, but one who feels our hurt.

It means also that there will be no other like Him.

reply to post by Drala


Hi Drala i have been reading your posts and thread on Leonard Nimoy 2011 and what fasinates me is you keep refering to lighting thats really got me curious what do you know about this lightning stuff especially when you said waterfalls of energy in space .I had a dream years ago something in me just really wanted to know so it went looking and i recently did my first thread on this dream .The thread is called "Did i visit hollow earth or somewhere else" .Did you happen to read that one? Since bringing this dream up i have been thinking about this lightning energy and remembered i had recently had another dream (in the last year or so) ( By the way I let my thread go cold as i had a real hard day on the eclipse and i have only just managed to get up going again.plus most of the time i love to reflect and this take time) My other dream involving light energy was i met up with one of my life partners who passed away some years ago this man was a bit older than me and i think i went looking for him for advice or a question answered. Anyway we caught up in space and we were walking around (doing laps) on what i can best describe as saturns ring but there was no planet in the middle or it could be described as a solar conveyer belt it was like a big ring of fire that didn't burn. Your the first person i have heard talk about this lighting energy so i just had to ask sorry if i went off topic .I think at this stage the next jesus is probably not from here as i dont think there is a person capable of that responsibility on earth even jesus had a hard time when he was here as the story goes.

Originally posted by Drala
I am sorry but I have a hard time thinking the messiah will not grow up here before his awakening....Jesus had an awakening and was baptized by John...I would suspect like moses and methusela and every other incarnation of a messiah will begin as a common man, and they will always rise out of the masses.

The Christian expectation is that "the coming messiah" IS Jesus. That is the whole point. It is the expected return, or at least the visible return (since he's permanently present in a different sense) of that same Jesus who was crucified and raised from the dead and returned to the Father. As the Nicene creed says;
"...whence he will come again in glory, to judge both the quick and the dead".
So he will not need to be "awakened" because he's been awakened already.

If you are thinking in terms of different incarnations, you are wandering away from Christian teaching and need to examine the New Testament more closely. The Christian expectation is of a Jesus who has already been incarnated once and does not need to be incarnated again.

The "flash of lightning" image means "suddenly, visible to everyone".

Originally posted by chr0naut
If He was just a common man, his life meant nothing, even if He had some great philosophy/moral teaching.

I am sorry you have such a low opinion of the common man. The fact that he was a common man who presented wisdom that confounded the wise was what made Christ exceptional. If he were God incarnate, then it is no miracle that the wise were confounded. Saying his life meant nothing is to ignore what he taught. His wisdom is the salvation of the world. To rebel against it is to rebel against oneself.

Originally posted by chr0naut
If He was God incarnate, it means God loves us enough to suffer for us and that He wants for us to love Him too.

His teachings were that we are all part of God, made in his image, and should therefore treat each other as such. God still suffers for us. Anytime you see a brother or sister in distress, it is God suffering for our indifference to each other.

Originally posted by chr0naut
Not a God in a distant ivory tower heaven, but one who feels our hurt.

Yes, and is reflected in the sufferings of our Brothers and Sisters.

Originally posted by chr0naut
It means also that there will be no other like Him

Nor another like you. You are just as special and just as loved. So to do you have it within you to love as Christ loved. Be perfect.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Drala
.I WANT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS...

that's the point! to hear one another's thoughts...therefor subtracting misunderstandings and magnifying empathy.

you see.. the messiah is plural... and it is a new body that removes dependence upon infrastructure and planetary resources. literally.. saves you...

it will not be 'one man'... the messiah is plural.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Drala
I am sorry but I have a hard time thinking the messiah will not grow up here before his awakening....Jesus had an awakening and was baptized by John...I would suspect like moses and methusela and every other incarnation of a messiah will begin as a common man, and they will always rise out of the masses.

The Christian expectation is that "the coming messiah" IS Jesus. That is the whole point. It is the expected return, or at least the visible return (since he's permanently present in a different sense) of that same Jesus who was crucified and raised from the dead and returned to the Father. As the Nicene creed says;
"...whence he will come again in glory, to judge both the quick and the dead".
So he will not need to be "awakened" because he's been awakened already.

If you are thinking in terms of different incarnations, you are wandering away from Christian teaching and need to examine the New Testament more closely. The Christian expectation is of a Jesus who has already been incarnated once and does not need to be incarnated again.

The "flash of lightning" image means "suddenly, visible to everyone".

edit on 12-12-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

I would assure you I have wondered far far away form the new testament....into every corner of every religion....there is nothing to fear in them that the father cannot protect you from...you must have the faith to walk through the valley...

I can meet you half way.... I agree he would have genetic memory awakened at birth, but he would not remember everything as an infant when he reincarnates. And that is the catch with time travel and reincarnation...there is the danger you will not remember who you were...or are....or rather are not

THank you for the advice, perhaps it is time I return to the New testament...you could be bringing me another message from our father IMHO one must delve deeply, with an open "heart" ,into all the religions they are your brothers beliefs and they deserve the same respect as you feel your beliefs should have....we all have pieces of a huge puzzle...and unless we open up to all the teaching and sort through the lies we cannot find the the path. THe path is a long one, hidden in the shadows and often you have to travel through the dark, just have faith....the dark is just less bright...

Cool analogy again....we are like a big person and some people are feet and some are hands and some are brains etc....and one might think the feet are more lowly than the brain....but I would like to see the brain walk to work without the feet to carry it...idea being we are equally important to the greater system....like Alan watts would say as the "apple tree apples, the earth peoples"....we are all equally important in the grand scheme....

WE are all part of a huge system...

Originally posted by my1percent
reply to post by Drala

 

Hi Drala i have been reading your posts and thread on Leonard Nimoy 2011 and what fasinates me is you keep refering to lighting thats really got me curious what do you know about this lightning stuff especially when you said waterfalls of energy in space .I had a dream years ago something in me just really wanted to know so it went looking and i recently did my first thread on this dream .The thread is called "Did i visit hollow earth or somewhere else" .Did you happen to read that one? Since bringing this dream up i have been thinking about this lightning energy and remembered i had recently had another dream (in the last year or so) ( By the way I let my thread go cold as i had a real hard day on the eclipse and i have only just managed to get up going again.plus most of the time i love to reflect and this take time) My other dream involving light energy was i met up with one of my life partners who passed away some years ago this man was a bit older than me and i think i went looking for him for advice or a question answered. Anyway we caught up in space and we were walking around (doing laps) on what i can best describe as saturns ring but there was no planet in the middle or it could be described as a solar conveyer belt it was like a big ring of fire that didn't burn. Your the first person i have heard talk about this lighting energy so i just had to ask sorry if i went off topic .I think at this stage the next jesus is probably not from here as i dont think there is a person capable of that responsibility on earth even jesus had a hard time when he was here as the story goes.

AH thank you, I know this will not be wasted as the father speaks to us through dreams....

The fire electricity is how it actually works around here...The snake eating its own tail is called oroborus by the ancients...its a flaming snake eating its own tail... If you get a chance look into the constellation Eridanus...its the river of souls...or the oroborus' back....Picture plasma river coming from orion nebula and flows through our solar sytem towards the milky way... then cymatics kick in from the galatic pulsars and the essences are combined here on earth... then the conveyor belt continues to the milkyway being compressed and ejected out of its quasar....the earth if you really want to be technical is fathered by the orion nebula dicharge....although you aren't going to hear that from many traditional sources....sorry if this is over the top for you, or anyone else here, I think you will recognize it as being quite reasonable if you take the time to think it through...

Makes me wonder about the cults of the fire snake and the return of ophiucus the serpent bearer...

Oh and just to be fair with this....its only one octave in the system...this repeats over and over and over....not just here....it unfolds like a fractal...So to not confuse this with Greater GOD...that is an entirely different can of worms....Orion is just one of the "dos" in the do re mi fa so la ti do...one octave...but still a god...as we are gods to anything we chose to pour our energy into...we are a Do too LMAO ah parables are fun.....sorry if they sometimes seem like an inside joke between me and someone else....I find it feels like poetry, so bear with me

reply to post by Drala


And just to clarify...."And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)

If this child was not reincarnated how was he to have any other manifest besides original sin?? Again I am sorry to make it seem debate on this point...However I do look forward to contrary comment from Jesus if you would offer one to me...And please quote Jesus or from the mount perhaps...such as..."Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5) ...if there is no reincarnation how will they get back to the earth to inherit it? Please do not say alien ship will fly down with all the dead christian on board....

Again I think they will be on the river of souls as they return here....and many of them are here now..thats why these ideas will never die....all those involved are here now...just they have not been reminded... we all have amnesia....

reply to post by IAMIAM


I excellent post..I like the last part

Originally posted by Drala
I would assure you I have wondered far far away form the new testament....into every corner of every religion....there is nothing to fear in them that the father cannot protect you from...you must have the faith to walk through the valley...

That is where you are going wrong. The Biblical religion is not something that can be mixed with other religions.
The most fundamental instruction in the Bible, the command which God gives to the Israelites before he says anything else, is "You shall have no other gods but me".
That is what the Father actually says.
So once you start mixing the Biblical religion with other religions, you are choosing against the Father, because you are ignoring his most fundamental instruction.
The logical options are between accepting the Bible's approach, or rejecting it and choosing some other approach.
Trying to mix the two is not a logical option, because the Bible itself is against it.

Similarly with the name of Christ.
The New Testament is our source of information about Jesus, as the Christ.
It's the only reason we've got for believing that there is a Christ.
So there's no point in using the concept of "Christ" unless we accept the New Testament understanding of him. It's meaningless outside that context.
The New Testament says absolutely nothing about a Christ reincarnating or having a genetic memory.
What it does say, on the other hand, is;
"This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven".
Acts ch1 v11
THIS Jesus. Not anyone else.

THank you for the advice, perhaps it is time I return to the New testament...you could be bringing me another message from our father

Yes, do consider that possibilty and take it seriously. But remember that the Biblical religion cannot be mixed with other religions, because that is part of the fundamental definition of the Biblical religion.
It is one or the other; all or nothing.

reply to post by Drala


Drala thanks for your response .Sound and vibrations have been interesting to me for a while ,i remember something about symbols on mary madgelenes church and that video you posted .I entertained the thought quite a few years ago that the pyrimids where built using sound vibrations. The snake ring stuff is pretty full on, i suppose its the world card symbol in the tarot .Life is a puzzle and i wondered if we could gather all the pieces what picture would we get. I will reflect on what you said thanks