Why do Jews call themselves Jews?

Originally posted by _Ghostrider_
Look, As far as I'm concerned, Lech Lehizdayen!

Er?

in the worst place in recorded history

New Jersey?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

It is rather frustrating to see all these ridiculous lies bandied about as if they were facts, and terrible to watch a rise in european nationalism and a corresponding increase in antisemitism there.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by James the Lesser
and spin the lies into facts so people will stop trying to kill them.

Why should anyone want to kill a person merely because they are jewish?

LOL...you have got to be kidding me!? Why should anyone want to kill a person merely because they are black?
Why should anyone want to kill a person merely because they are Wiccan?
Why should anyone want to kill a person merely because they are Christian? Because people that are ignorant, are usually also prejudice.....add some fanaticism to that...and there you go!

Nygdan, because they are jewsih! Thats why they are killed. If Israel was just another Mauslim country in the middle east, no problems. But since they are Jews, the Middle East is trying to kill them all. Or as they put it, "Push the Jews into the Sea".

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by James the Lesser
and spin the lies into facts so people will stop trying to kill them.

Why should anyone want to kill a person merely because they are jewish?

LOL...you have got to be kidding me!?

Well, I'm not saying that people don't do it, I'mm just point out that its stupid and absurd.

Yes, it is. But still, millions of people are out to kill you if you a Jew. Which is why they should hire Bush&Co to do a PR campign for them. Look at how many people worship Bush&Co after all the things they have done to hurt them.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
millions of people are out to kill you if you a Jew.

i dont know who is the bigger idiot. the person who fed you this crap, or you for swallowing. (the next time some one shoots into your mouth you can always spit it out)

[edit on 20-9-2004 by Ashlar]

Originally posted by Ashlar
i dont know who is the bigger idiot. the person who fed you[james the lesser] this crap [that millions of people want to kill jews], or you

While I disagree with the 'millions' portion, there are ceratinly numerous antisemites out there who are murderous. Are you disputing the 'millions' portion specificallly?

Well, this is certainly an interesting and stimulating thread! The initial question of why Jews are called Jews was answered early on, and now this seems to have become a discussion of the general place of Jews in the world, and specifically Israel.

There are fringe elements that should be summarily dismissed.....I was watching a Local Access cable channel recently where an African-American was claiming that Blacks are the "True Jews" and had a chart showing how the 12 Tribes were actually the Jamaicans, Haitians, etc. He was dressed in bedsheets and headgear reminiscent of a Klansman. My wife and I laughed our butts off at his rantings and misreadings of the Bible.

After the Babylonian captivity, the Jews returned to Israel, only to be ejected again in the Diaspora almost 2000 years ago by the Romans.

Where they haven't been supressed/opressed, Jews have done exceptionally well due to their emphasis on worldly accomplishment as opposed to the Goys' general laissez-faire attitude.

NEXT YEAR IN JERUSALEM! Jews around the world, however polluted their bloodlines might be, are still Jews, and the Holy Land is still the Promised Land. Nothing can change that.

For better or worse, the United Nations endorsed the concept of Zionism when it established the state of Israel in 1948. The Arab world has refused to accept Israel's legitimacy right from the start.....they lauched a war on the same day that Israel came into existense. The Arab league lost that war, and Israel gained additional territory in subsequent wars......none of which Israel sought.....yet now the rest of the world wants Israel to surrender unilaterally territories which are vital to her security.

If you don't like Israel, STUFF IT! ISRAEL IS HERE TO STAY!

Just a fact.....that's all.............

Hi RR98:

Modern Day Israelis are NOT related to the Israelites by blood. Sorry to be the one to burst your tiny bubble.

Are you NOT aware of the Khazarian Conversion (AD 780 to AD 980) in the area around Kiev which converted over 1 Million pagan goyin to Judaeism which became the Ashekenazim ? Maybe you never wondered why modern Day Jews are so light skinned compared to the very mixed but similarly brown (i.e. Arabic) skinned ancient (now extinct) Israelitish tribelets?

Most of the blood descendants of the Israelitish tribes are virtually extinct (if there are any blood descendants of their blurred history, say in Yemen etc.) they do not seem to be practiciting "Jews" anymore and if there are any, they practice a vastly different form of " Judaeism" than modern Rabinninc Judaeism that most Ashkenazim practice).

If modern day Israeli's were NOT Ashkenazim, it would be a different story---- but only the Sephardim (and Falashim) have any claim to blood lineage to the ancient Israelitish "Canaanite" tribes.

The white-skinned Ashkenazim (which is 90% of the worlds Jews) are in fact goyim converts to Judaeism. Ashkenazim are NOT "semitic" ---they are SLAVIC. Descendants of the Goyim. Non Israelites. White Skinned Gentiles.

Read Arthur Koestler's book THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE. There have been many others in recent years being published on this very subject, even in Israel since 2000.

Koestler is an Ashkenazi Jew who spent more than 20 years researching the subject of the Khazarian Conversion (e.g. the ben Ezra Synagogue in Cairo which held a Genizah attic full of old documents) and discovered to his absolute horror a completely different history of "Jews" in the Middle Ages in Europe than the so called "accepted "version which is perpetuated among the masses today.

Ashlar, what do you call Syria? Jordan? Palestinians? Lebanon? Iran? Iraq? Yemen? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? They all declare death to the jews and Israelites. I am sure there is bound to be a few million with all them put together. Or the KKK, yes they mainly hate blacks, but Jews, Indians, Asians, Hispanics, also on their hate list. Same with the White Knights of Kristianity, mainly hate/kill blacks, but anyone else not white and christian on their list. Or Neo-Nazis. Or any of the number of hate groups out there. All hate Jews, and most wish to eradicate them from the Earth.

Ashlar, what do you call Syria? Jordan? Palestinians? Lebanon? Iran? Iraq? Yemen? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? They all declare death to the jews and Israelites. I am sure there is bound to be a few million with all them put together. Or the KKK, yes they mainly hate blacks, but Jews, Indians, Asians, Hispanics, also on their hate list. Same with the White Knights of Kristianity, mainly hate/kill blacks, but anyone else not white and christian on their list. Or Neo-Nazis. Or any of the number of hate groups out there. All hate Jews, and most wish to eradicate them from the Earth.

Amadeus

according to the old testament, will the ashkenazim inherit the world with the sephardim? or is that purely reserved for the seed of abraham?

can you shed any light on the relationship between the two; do they intermarry, are their religious beliefs the same? (some jews maintain that the only difference between the two groups is religious).

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Ashlar, what do you call Syria? Jordan? Palestinians? Lebanon? Iran? Iraq? Yemen? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? They all declare death to the jews and Israelites.

absolute rubbish. i am syrian in race and i have never killed a jew. i have a very large family who are syrian and none of them have killed jews or wish to kill jews. i was born in saudi arabia and that did not make me kill any more jews than you did.

my uncle was a general in the lebanese civil war. he may have killed alot of men, but he didnt kill jews. the jews where his allies. the jews moved in to south lebanon and wiped out an entire palastenian refugee camp who where planning to fight against the nationalist christian lebanese.

i know many arabs, (christians and muslims) some who are distinguished, and some not, and none of them confessed to me that they wanted to kill jews. quite the opposite, arabs are the most generous people in the world (as opposed to jews... haha, get it?)

Originally posted by RR98I was watching a Local Access cable channel recently where an African-American was claiming that Blacks are the "True Jews" and had a chart showing how the 12 Tribes were actually the Jamaicans, Haitians, etc. He was dressed in bedsheets and headgear reminiscent of a Klansman. My wife and I laughed our butts off at his rantings and misreadings of the Bible.

they stand on the corner in front of my office and recite passages from the bible, periodically calling out to someone who they think is jewish (the fake kind in their minds). They then taunt and scream at them in a pathetic attempt to belittle the poor bastard that stops to argue with them.


This whole thread has been very amusing but I'm still wondering which new name we (yup, big nosed, penny pinching, media owning, world dominating jew here) chose.

I voted for Jewbaka.

Ashlar:

Since there are no phyical blood descendants of the ancient Israelites left around today to "inherit" any land" I suppose the whole idea is a moot point at this stage in western history.

The poetical-wisdom phrase "but, the humble shall inherit the Land [of Israel]" (Psalms 37) referred to a time when the area of greater Palestine was brutally occupied for centuries between BC 920 and AD 138 by ruthless and powerful goyim gentile nations who freely interbred racially for centuries with the locals (i.e. the sophisticated and warlike cultures of Egypt, followed by invasion from Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia then Greece and the Syrians and finally invasion and occupation by the Romans who ended up destroying it utterly, and virtually all of its local inhaitants).

The sentiments in Psalmist who wrote No. 37 were expressed by a writer who had no idea that Rome one day would kill 900,000 Palestinian Jews in two horrific wars of rebellion and that the remainder would be scattered to the four winds only to interbreed with the Gentile nations they fled to (or were sold into slavery into) and he would not have known anything about a mass forced "political" conversion of Slavic Ukranian Gentile goyim in the 9th and 10th centuries AD----he probably was assuming that there woud be a physical descendant group of the original Israelites (a righteous fragment) who would one day rule the land and occupy it.

But we can no longer speak along purely racial lines when referring to people who call themselves "Jews" anymore.

The Greek of Matthew 5:5 ("Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth") is a bad translation of what was originally an Aramaic utterance placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Iesous") who quoted the Tanakh fairly regularly in his teaching: from Psalm 37

The source for this idea (Psalm 37) plainly refers to a scenario wherein a group of righteous sufferers are somehow being oppressed by a wicked and mroe powerful group--- but the Day of Judgment is coming for them according to the Psalmist, from YHWH himself:

Those who commit evil shall be cut off utterly,
but those who wait patiently for YHWH shall possess the Land (of Israel)
Wait a little while, and the Wicked Ones shall be no more;
Look for them, and they shall not be found longer:
But the poor ones shall inherit the land (of Israel)
Yea they shall delight in great prosperity
YHWH shall laugh at the Wicked
Knowing their Day (of Judgment) is coming soon...
For YHWH loveth Justice, and will not abandon the Faithful ones,
and in that Day when the Unjust ones are destroyed
And the Sons of the Wicked ones are cut off without remnant
the Righteous Ones shall possess the Land (of Israel)
and they shall live upon it forever...

The many references in Psalm 37 to "distress" and the need for "patience" suggests an historical background of long term foreign occupation (especially all the references to re-inheriting the land by a "righteous remnant", which is a theme of the Deuteronomistic historian who wrote the material found in the books of Deuteronomy all the way through II Kings--and a theme of R. Yehoshua as well, who believed that his followers had to be even "more righteous than the sofrim" in order to enter into "the kingdom")

Notice how in Jewish writings, the Hebrew prophets and psalmists often pair off/equate the term "wicked ones" with the "rich/powerful"

(e.g. He shall make his grave with the Wicked Ones, and he shall lie with the Rich Ones in his death) especially in the socalled Wisdom Psalms that delights in opposing pairs of types.

Notice also how the "poor ones" (or "humble" ones, or "the meek") shall be repaid in the psalm: according to the writer, these humble ones shall be rewarded (i.e. in the Last Days) and this is the tenor of the message of "Iesous" = those who weep now will laugh in the kingdom, those who thirst now will drink in the kingdom etc. where in the last days all the wrongs agasint the righteous ones shall be righted.

But the term "the poor shall inherit the land" was never meant to be "universalized" to mean "the earth: or applied to "the world" --it meant the Land of Israel was going to be populated by the "poor of the land. "

Ha Aretz in Hebrew can mean "dry land" or "Earth" (as opposed to the sea or air) but it also means "the Land [meaning "of Israel" in the narrower geographical sense.

This dual meaning is reflected in the title of the Israeli newspaper HaAretz.

"Inheriting the land of Israel" meant originally "re-claiming" the land of Israel from foreign occupiers by some humble and righteous remnant (the type of people R. Yehoshua would have envisaged to re-claim Judaea after the Romans were expelled, according to his End of Days ideology, which we see reflected in the Dead Sea Scrolls (e.g. the War Scroll or the Pesher on the Psalms etc.).

The phrase was also a reflection back to 587 BC of who exactly was left behind in Palestine (i.e. the poor) when the Babylonians came and took everyone who worked in metals, or who could read and write e.g. the priests (these were the dangerous and powerful ones who could foster a counter-revolution) out of the country--i.e. the Babylonians left only the "meek" and the poor and humble behind unmolested to "inherit" the land of Israel, and this was noted by the author of Psalms 37, and was a theme which recurred to be applied to the Last Days when Rome would finally be expelled from Judaea with the coming of the Daviddic Messiah, when all the exiled Jews from the Diaspora would return to Palestine...

Clear as mud?

Thanks Amadeus, great research