Gender segregated ministries: Good or bad?

In SA we've had the Promise Keepers, but a much bigger men's ministry has taken root.
The Mighty Men movement attracts hundreds of thousands of men every year.

The Mighty Men were headed by Angus Buchan, who was an expat Zambian farmer that relocated to SA, and the subject of the acclaimed Christian film "Faith like Potatoes".

Buchan became the star of SA Christianity, when he organized men-only camps.
Despite some racial integration, the gatherings were mainly by white men, sometimes with questionable political symbolism.

First feminists began to complain that what Buchan told the men at his gatherings was sexist hogwash.
Then regular women began to complain that some of their men returned from these camps aggressive and mind-controlled.
Others seemed impressed.

Buchan also said you can "pray away the gay".

Now, as a gay male I'm thinking if I go to one of those gatherings I'll just be tempted.
So shouldn't I be allowed at a female camp?
And recently an Afrikaner woman began offering gatherings for women.
So we have Buchan's "Mighty Men" and Gretha Wiid's "Worthy Woman".

Well, I think the Worthy Woman camp would be better for me.
Although the Mighty Men also has certain attractions.

I'm wondering though, is all this gender segregation really good for family values?

Worthy Women:

Doesn't matter as long as they're AGE-segregated. Adults separate from children

Personally I don't believe in any form of segregation..

The person I would have at my back in times of trouble and need will always be my other half.. It is a shame Canon law came along and kicked the heck out of the relationship between men and women in my country..

It has taken nearly a 1,000 years to reclaim some of the parity between men and women that did exist back in the day, and I still don't think we are there yet!

So for me this is like taking another step backwards but I am aware that in another culture this is the right approach...

The Mighty Men Conference 2010.

The biggest Christian event for Christian men in SA.

Women are allowed in for a final service on the last day.
Last time we I wanted to go with my female friend to see her husband, we were told to leave it, because the roads were jammed.

we have the 99% against greed and blahblah
how much of the world is made up of gay people?
and then again of worth while gay people?
ouch i know but truthfully...

reply to post by stopmakingsense

Well you definitely won't find any gay people here.

It's all about teaching real men how to dominate their women.

I think the question would be better if you asked: are ministry's bad.

Religion separates and always has always separated the people. That is the core of the issue in my opinion.

Angus Buchan takes his show to Australia:

Of course it didn't take long before a conspiracy theorist made a clip on Angus Buchan, and his ramblings.
Isn't this Nazi-like?
All this screaming and Bible-waving, and the military precise screams of "Amen"!
Perhaps this critic went a bit far, but he exposes some of the weird babble:



Most people don't recall the babble.
What is going on here?
Is SA being militarized for some race war?

Despite the integrated looks and power for white men only over their wives and kids, I once asked on talk radio how many black people would follow Buchan.
Most callers said that they felt sick just seeing a white farmer, and even as Christians they couldn't follow him.

This week we had Afrikaans women peeling potatoes as an art installation, to protest Buchan's misogyny.
Yet still, the following is so huge that the mainstream media refuses to post any real criticism.

This is mind control.
But wouldn't you like something, if it told you that you were special?

Afrikaans women peel potatoes in traditionally restrictive dress to protest patriarchy and the potato preacher - Angus Buchan:

www.iol.co.za...

The protest began when an art student had her installation closed, where she peeled potatoes naked in protest at Buchan's old-school patriarchy.

mybroadband.co.za...

This is so old-school SA.
You don't like a message, so you shoot the messenger, instead of addressing the message.

Photographs show Coetzee seated on a stool, wearing a traditional Voortrekker style hat and stockings with her hands clutched in her lap. She appeared to be seated in an old-fashioned kitchen, among potatoes, with messages on the wall behind her. One such message read: “Wives, respect your husbands, submit to your husbands.” She also tore pages from a Bible. “I am completely against tearing pages out of the Bible. I will not tolerate that she tore pages out of the Bible,” Bekker said.

Although I cannot quote directly because of the outraged feminist language, Gretha Wiid is criticized here:
mcbrolloks.wordpress.com...
Her message is that women should be submissive, and rather gain power indirectly by manipulating their "Biblical men" with their female wiles.

Things like porn or masturbation are strictly forbidden, not only to Gretha and her hubby, but also to her kids.
Sex begins with marriage, and that's where Gretha's talents come to the fore.
A woman must always look good for her man, and she can reasonably expect something material in return.
A woman who neglects herself shouldn't be surprised if her hubby strays.

Men are the head of the home, and women are the heart of the home.
Perhaps one could also say that Christian gender relationships reduce women to the "happy hooker" for one.
Now that's the stuff I need to hear!

The atheist post on Angus Buchan is similarly amusing, as the insults fly.
mcbrolloks.wordpress.com...

But I do think that if this fundamentalist literalism continues, Christianity will be reduced to pure misogyny.

mcbrolloks.wordpress.com...

The time to speak out is NOW.

But speak out against what?
I kinda like it that the women must shut up when the men are talking.

And to think, we got all this crap from the USA.

However, not everything that Buchan says is bad.
Here he speaks out against domestic violence:

Originally posted by mileysubet
I think the question would be better if you asked: are ministry's bad.

Religion separates and always has always separated the people. That is the core of the issue in my opinion.

Another question might be why the OP chooses to follow a religion which preaches that the sexual inclination he was born with is a sin and must be 'prayed away'?

reply to post by 1littlewolf

Well following something for me is a complex point.
I guess it's like a lot of people say that they love their country, but they hate their government.
You're not in agreement with everything, but still something appeals to you.

There's also a deep sense of nostalgia in this.

But one could ask the same question of heterosexual women.
Why do they stay in a religion that has clear passages against their equality?

reply to post by halfoldman


Good point, though you won't catch me hanging out at parliament no matter how much i love Australia, and I still wonder why you would choose to mix with a group whom I'm guessing the large majority would vilify you if they knew the truth. I am not Christian although I do admire the teachings of Jesus and agree he was a truly inpired man for his day. But I will not go to church for I would probably be burnt at the stake.

I do however realise the atmosphere generated by a large group of people who share similar thoughts can be truly inspiring.....

Segregation is fine as everyone goes along with it. Forced segregation is something else, they are their own group playing by their own made up rules i do not see a problem with that.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Well following something for me is a complex point.
I guess it's like a lot of people say that they love their country, but they hate their government.
You're not in agreement with everything, but still something appeals to you.

There's also a deep sense of nostalgia in this.

But one could ask the same question of heterosexual women.
Why do they stay in a religion that has clear passages against their equality?

edit on 8-12-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

The New Testament does not mention anything about sexual inequalities between men and women and before you mention 2 Corinthians i will tell you that 2 Corinthians is a forgery and not written by Paul at all as the writter likes to lead you to believe. This is verified by the style and character of the book, the mannerisms are nothing like Paul at all. Paul was at war with the apostate elements in the church and they wrote 2 forgeries trying to cast doubt on his character.

The 2 forgeries are 2 Thessalonians and 2 Corinthians, whoever wrote those 2 books were very opinionated about women not being able to preach which a blatant violation of Christ's will as he had Mary and other women in the upper room at Pentecost and they recieved the Holy Spirit. If Jesus didn;t want them to recieve the Holy Spirit to go about spreading his word then he would have kept them out and not allowed women into christianity period. Seeing that Jesus did not do this tells you logically that it was not his will to exclude women from the ministry. What apostate element in the church wanted to exclude women from preaching the word? The Roman Catholic Church.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Interesting point, and I'm open to that argument.

However fundamentalist Christians view the entire Bible (such as the KJV) as the infallible and divinely inspired word of God.

Furthermore, the misogyny of St Paul occurs throughout the Bible, and there is little suggestion of gender equality.
Even Jesus measured adultery and divorce against the actions of the woman, rather than a man (which repeats the OT idea that a woman must be a virgin to enter marriage, but not the man).

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Interesting point, and I'm open to that argument.

However fundamentalist Christians view the entire Bible (such as the KJV) as the infallible and divinely inspired word of God.

Furthermore, the misogyny of St Paul occurs throughout the Bible, and there is little suggestion of gender equality.
Even Jesus measured adultery and divorce against the actions of the woman, rather than a man (which repeats the OT idea that a woman must be a virgin to enter marriage, but not the man).

Hebrew customs are not our customs of today. Today being a virgin means never having sex for the first time. In the old heberew custom being a virgin meant something along the lines of never having born a child to womans husband, or possibly never being married before according to what i have heard. The modern concept of virginity comes from european paganism in which the sacrificing of virgins (to them women who have not ever had sex) was acceptable during extremely stressfuly times like famine or plague. The hebrews had very different marriage customs and concepts than what we do today. Back then if a woman's husband died then it was usually customary for his brother to take his wife and marry her and be the father to her children. Adoption was seen in a very different light because adopted children were treated as if they were blood relatives and often in cases where a chikld had no father of his own then the mother's father would adopt him into his house and he would technically be the adopted grandfathers son. The female line in hebrew customs were generally not counted but they were recorded. Which is how Jesus became the heir to David's throne through 2 lines, Joseph's father and Mary's father.