Terence Mckenna - Analysis of a world without Christianity

Terence Mckenna told in a public conference that he received " a message " from the " people from the other side " during an experiment.
He spoke about the Soliton of improbability, that says that there is a unique event in the history of a universe where two time streams split without knowledge of such event and there is one , only one, event that happens in only one dimension, and he says our unique event was the Birth and/or Resurrection of Jesus.

In the other dimension, that until that time was exactly identical to ours, this didn't happen. He says that Christian religion is the most reactionary force that has driven us into the course of history, so its the most influential thing in history.

Now, in this thread I try to analyze how this world without Christianity evolved; Mckenna said to us that he was told this world is governed principally from Romans/Italians ( Roman Empire won Barbars and didn't fall ), Greeks and Mayans ( Guatemala and Yucatan ) and China ( starting from the Sung dinasty ).

He also told us that this world had the technological level of our 1492 in the year 850, so that the Romans discovered the new world during Mayan period and they established contact and alliance.
Also , the Greeks followed.
They formed a global civilization together with China, and instead of our science, they developed complex pharmacopeia in 950.
By 1200, they had the technological level of our 1969, so that they landed on the Moon and formed a cybernetic civilization.
Their only religions were Islam, Buddhism, Jewish one, Hinduist etc. but Europe abandoned religions in 1321 and the world abandoned religions by 1464.
They follow Julian calendar.

They eventually discovered, through the study of dreams, US, so that they became interested in our culture and they conceived the notion to save us from religions.
They never used nuclear technology, but when one of their scientists said that a nuclear explosions would have occurred in both dimensions, they experimented with one and this was in our 1908 ( the Tunguska event ).
They monitored our dreams to find out.
So, they became concerned because our nuclear explosions, tests, and probably radiations would have ruined their homeworld.
They visit us with ufos and astral travels, and such things.
They are trying to develop technology to rejoin the time streams, and Mckenna was told this would have happened by our 2012.

They are now at the technological level we would reach in the year 2781.
So, they have Venus and Mars terraformed.

They developed the press in the year 813, and before 1200 they discovered blood circulation, cannons, flying machines, the multiverse theory in year 958, dictionaries, Australia, vaccinations, steam trains, photos, micro-organisms, phone, electricity, cars, anestetyc, cinema, radio signals, airplane, television, skyscrapers, dna, rem, satellits, heart transplant, supersonic plane, you name it.

From 1200 to 1243 they discovered personal computers, internet in 1222, exoplanets, human genome, cellphones, 1st cyborg in 1233, syntetic life in 1241, trapped antimatter in 1241, they had robots in homes by 1242, virtual reality by 1246, 3d printing by 1246, electronic paper by 1248, fusion reactors by 1250, they got rid of oil by 1287, nano-technology by 1253, human brain simulations by 1256, maybe technological singularity by 1260.
They went to Mars in 1263, had quantum computers by 1268, claytronics by 1271, they halted aging by 1293, flying vehicles by 1307, global currency and teleportation by 1313, explored Solar System during 1310s, mind uploading by 1344, interstellar travel by 1374, conquered antimatter in 1454, matter replication by 1414, no diseases and poverty by 1424 and terraformed Mars in 1700s and Venus in 1900s.

Wouldn't it be cool if it was a true message and they really are going to came?
It would have been interesting to hear their reactions when we started us nuclear bombs and after Japan disaster this year.

Also, do you think that without Christianity we would have been more advanced than now?

It's impossible to say what would have happened without Christianity, but I think we were doing pretty good before it, not to mention the Dark Ages. The other time line sounds pretty interesting!

This whole thing reminds me of the multiverse episode of family guy

Terrence McKenna is truly a great thinker, an appealing speaker & something about him brings this feeling of solace to me. Unfortunately I didn't get to discover his works until years after he had passed, I really wish I could've gotten the chance to meet him.

As for this theory, it's very interesting & slightly outlandish. I do believe [organized] religion holds back humanity to some extent; although I'm sure Christians tell you something along the lines of: this idea is inspired by Satan. Anything that contradicts the man-written Scripture must be satanic by their logic. I'll have to read the entire post a bit later, but S&F for now.

Although I was going to ask a link however even if some of this aren't real there are still some facts to your post, like for example science should have advanced if the church didn't murder the scientists

reply to post by Zagari


You should write a book. This is a pretty good idea for a piece of fiction. I don't know where you people get these ideas...

The mistake of Christianity has destroyed or hidden a great deal of knowledge throughout history. It's also been responsible for the deaths of untold millions, who knows what great minds were lost in the crusades, the witch trials and the inquisition to name a few. Without religion to hold us back I'm sure we would be much more advanced.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by Zagari

 

You should write a book. This is a pretty good idea for a piece of fiction. I don't know where you people get these ideas...

Agreed.. write a book and shop the rights. This would make a good science fiction movie.

Dr. D. James Kennedy wrote a book about what the world would be like without Christianity. You would not want to live in it. There is also a movie about the same subject: www.movieguide.org...

Does make you wonder ! I hate to appear to back up christians but wouldn't that mean China and South America would be at least a thousand years in advance of Europeans. Christians aren't everywhere. If you'd gone with religion in general i'd have to agree

Originally posted by Zagari
They went to Mars in 1263... and terraformed Mars in 1700s and Venus in 1900s.

Did he mention what they did to break the laws of physics?

What most people fail to understand when the topic of terraforming comes up is the huge amount of energy required to do it.
You start to see calculations that show to melt polar ice, or ice from comets to create seas, or to get plants to grow over the planet... that the energy budget requires stupendous values like 100 percent of all sunlight falling on the planet for thousands of years at 100 percent efficiency.
For less efficiency, add more tens of thousands of years.

Jim Oberg, who writes here occasionaly, wrote a book on this topic many years ago - "New Earths".

Where are the advances in science in non christian countries? How about countries that are pre-dominately Muslim, Hindu or Mayan? Was McKenna licking mushrooms when he came to this conclusion? It just isn't logical.

Hi Zagari..it's good to see a new thread by you..I am a big fan of your work on TWZ. I was also a fan of Terence Mckenna I agree with the above poster that he has a brilliant mind, which he did..you asked a few questions

Wouldn't it be cool if it was a true message and they really are going to came? It would have been interesting to hear their reactions when we started us nuclear bombs and after Japan disaster this year. Also, do you think that without Christianity we would have been more advanced than now?

I wonder if in fact they aren't checking in on us all the time? in an advanced society that was years ahead of us this might be child's play..to time travel.

As for their reactions to whats going on in our dimension..I have no idea..maybe they think we are lame, or dummie birds. Cause that's what I think we are..as a race we haven't advanced to well..in a few thousand years we have managed to nearly destroy our planet, and who knows maybe ourselves in the near future if someone decides to use a dirty bomb or some rogue nation deploys a nuke..or for that matter...the U.S decides to use that kind of force. Well..we are toast..

I hate organized religion..I thought Jesus had a very good message..simply to Love God, your neighbor and yourself..but somehow that got twisted..and religion is now used to manipulate people..so yes I think we would have been way ahead by now without Christianity..without any religion..why do we need it again?? great OP SnF Cheers Coco

humanity would have progressed much further without the curse of christianity...

would also have been less wars and none of the constant end of the world rubbish the christians keep spouting and pushing for ...

if christianity had its way humanity would be extinct.

We'd probably be sacrificing each other to gods and sending our children to temple prostitution. I'm skeptical that scientists would be free to defy the public opinion if it wasn't for protestantism.

Originally posted by Expat888
humanity would have progressed much further without the curse of christianity...

would also have been less wars and none of the constant end of the world rubbish the christians keep spouting and pushing for ...

if christianity had its way humanity would be extinct.

I never quite got this mindset, one would think if Christianity was so malignant, evil and anti-progress, and regressive that it wouldn't of been Christan Europe going forth and conquering the the world with using technology and and new and ancient learning together. But say one of the greater of the Eurasian big civilizations like China.

Or to put in other words, its often presumptions and Eurocentric in thinking that Christianity was this great retardation in global human history. How the Catholic Church start wars in China or keep them from inventing flying machines? Does the Pope hat radiate magical thought killer rays that it was making people dumb in the New World before Columbus that kept from advancing technology and society hundreds of years?

Lets not forget that a great amount of the building blocks of thought and knowledge that started the Renaissance and later the Enlightenment have in their origins major contributions to previous intellectual thinkers who due to the nature of medieval Europe were Christian thinkers. Not to argue that Christianity was the necessary trait that caused those events, but it wasn't a giant evil ball of repression of human thought either, but rather a mixed bag.

reply to post by alfa1


Probably you are right, but at this level of technology they would have been in the process of terraforming planets, probably they didn't concluded at this time. Who knows.

reply to post by Koffee


the church had a nasty habit of burning books, persecuting independent thinkers / scientists - galileo, newton, darwin .. burning people at the stake for practicing medicine.. they oppose science and scientific research i.e evolution, stem cell research and genetic research, they deny the possibility of extraterrestrial life/intelligence..

Yep christians are a real enlighted lot with their narrowminded,intolerant, primitive, bloodthirsty superstition.

reply to post by Expat888


And you tell me any of the religions before Christianity would allow dissenting views? (the greeks killed socrates for corrupting the youth)

I argue that it is only the Christian religion--particularly the Protestant reformation--that allowed an atmosphere conductive to the enlightenment. No other religion would have tolerated such heresy.

Originally posted by Expat888
reply to post by Koffee

 

the church had a nasty habit of burning books, persecuting independent thinkers / scientists - galileo, newton, darwin .. burning people at the stake for practicing medicine.. they oppose science and scientific research i.e evolution, stem cell research and genetic research, they deny the possibility of extraterrestrial life/intelligence..

Yep christians are a real enlighted lot with their narrowminded,intolerant, primitive, bloodthirsty superstition.

Well for the one, the Church isn't all of Christianity and that that is just merely the bad things I pointed out, lets not pay attention to the fact that the origins of learning in Europe were Church created schools, that due how Christianity adsorbed certain Greek ideas that it pondered a rational universe that to be discovered, among other things it affected both big and small that helped contributed to advancing forward in society. However, you notice in a highly Christian Europe even after those who got burnt by the Church, their ideas didn't die and continued to live till either be proven right or wrong by the time of the Enlightenment.


There isn't either definite Christan policy on stem cell research, evolution has many Christian supporters, the the Vatican Observatory (which is one of the oldest in the world) is ok talking about aliens,


Seriously you're arguing against history, obviously its not as bad as you made it out to be or else you wouldn't be on your computer right now saying this. The backwards primitive people you keep on complaining about are fare more complex and nuanced in both the good and evil they did then you seem to be willing to give them credit for.