What is a fact?

dictionary.reference.com...

By definition a fact is:

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth
2. something known to exist or to have happened
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened
5. Law

If I were to look outside my window and see that the sky looked blue, and post my observation as a fact (even with photographic or video evidence), someone can reject my FACT by posting a picture of a cloudy day showing that the sky, in fact, is not blue, it's grey. Someone else may post about the scientific properties about why the sky only looks blue.

Someone can post a FACT that according to the bible/koran/etc...that something occured so it is a fact, but if I don't believe in that specific faith, it is no longer a fact.

Someone else can post a youtube video of a reptilian or insect like humanoid lifeform on earth and declare it a fact because it's "on a video", and yet someone else can ask a simple question like "Where is the evidence of shedded skins, scales, or exoskeleton remains on our planet?" and reject their fact.

There are many examples of this.

My question is this: At what point does something change from a "fact" to undeniable proof? Or is a fact only relative to the observer?

A miserable little pile of truths!
But enough talk, HAVE AT YOU!

And this isn't a conspiracy
except maybe people mixing up there, they're and their.
Everyone in the world is just trying to piss me off.

Great post such a mind bender isn't it. Individuals and groups of individuals are different in many ways but I think this applies to both:

I like this thread Would probably fit better into the philosophy section though or somewhere like it.

I think the problem with the word "fact" is as you say that it's relative to what you believe and thats because of the vagaries of language .

I don't think the word is used much in the scientific community who would rather use the word "observation" i.e. Someone might say, I observed that the sky was Blue and qualify that with other observations to form a hypothesis which they would then attempt to test.

reply to post by isyeye

I think of a "fact" as either a universally accepted idea or thought or a scientifically proven theory (which are typically based on a pre-defined set of facts, but we won't open up that can of worms...).

I think your question should be more along the lines of "what do people THINK a fact is?"

The notion of fact is commonly thought to be an absolute definition of something - no confusion, debate or wiggle room as it is defined. The Sun rises in the east is fact. Fair enough, but.... for something to be a fact folks have to agree on the conditions from which the definition came. Here is where the trouble starts. It is a fact that Jesus lived and died for future sins. hardly something everyone can agree upon as indigenous people don't give a lick about the book that leads many to that conclusion: so it isn't a fact.

So, the definition in the OP is what a fact us supposed to be, what it has come to be is any statement at all whereby folks "think" in agreement to some degree or another. Some cultures have no words - facts, for numbers higher then 9. So can we say that the number 1000 is a fact? For some groups the number 1000 is a fact, for others it isn't. We can say it is a fact based on the OP definitions, but we cannot say it is an absolute and I think this is the point - people are prone to see "facts" as absolutes.

It was once a fact, so much so that to dispute it meant death in many circles, that the earth was flat.

So, for me, a fact isn't anything absolute despite what people think.

I guess fact is relatives to different person, i agree with OP... Those who see the sky blue will be blue and those who sees it as grey, it will be grey... That's why we have different opinion about different thing...

The reason I posted this thread in General Conspiracies is that while debating any conspiracy people tend to see the information given from their point of observation. Humans create conspiracies by not being able to agree with what is shown to them, and looking for things that will match their point of view.

When "THEY" approve it.. and you know better than to trust them unconditionally

Don't ignore your intuition. Your intuition is the suppressed sixth sense. It exists and you know that. It isn't always right obviously.. practice makes perfect and it needs 'exercise'

Truth is attained via knowledge, by yourself. Don't believe everything you read. Use critical thinking. Do your own research. Come to your own conclusions. Open your mind and use your imagination. Trust your intuition. Remove all barriers. You know that we live in a world full of liars so don't trust a single thing that "THEY" say. They are everywhere. Even if they are right, so is a broken clock twice a day. If they spend a lot of time, effort, and taxpayer money to smear somebody... well that person being smeared is likely telling the truth.

If you are raised and conditioned by lies about history, you live in an isolated bubble. If you do not expand your knowledge, that bubble is the ceiling to your rationality. That is why you cannot expect all to be as rational as you are. Rationality is a variable. Even immoral behavior can be rational if that is how one is raised. For example, the Israelis.. those who know the truth about I/P will direct their anger at the Israelis. But it is not their fault, they have been conditioned since birth. They believe in their minds that they are acting rational even though it is often immoral and cruel. The awakening is going to be very, very tough.

Just remember, THEY lie. You know who THEY lie. They are even here. They are on /b/. They are everywhere they fear may be an influence to public opinion. If something sounds extremely insane and crazy, they probably made it up to make somebody look bad. They take advantage of scientific ignorance and love to cry wolf using "that's impossible, it violates the laws of physics" ... Don't fall into such traps. Cointelpro is real. Psyops are real. THEY hate the internet and the influence. They are jealous of our souls. THEY are mostly psychopathic. THEY make the rules and dominate or influence our leaders.

Do not trust mainstream archaeology. The 'logy' can mean many things but for the most part means story or account. Archaeo means ancient or primitive. It is derived from Arkhein which is to begin. Which also leads us to Arcane.... and Archon. Pronounced similarly with the latter meaning rulers. Archons, the archer primitive overlords who have enslaved humanity. Google Archon and read about the gnostic variety. Therefore never trust mainstream archaeology. It is deliberately misleading.

These people will drain you dry like metaphoric vampires if you let them. Do not give them anything. Get to know both sides of your personality (aka left brain, right brain) and be perfect. You will know the TRUTH and anybody who denies it is a liar.

The most suppressed truth of this age is that of Atlantis/Antarctica. Anybody who dismisses this theory is either a useful idiot, ignorant, or in on it. Antarctica is Atlantis. Atlantis is not a city beneath the Atlantic Ocean. That's the BS story. People write books about the entire world's interest in Antarctica. There is also the rumors (which are not rumors) of Nazi interest. And of course the little-talked-about South Sandwich Islands...

If you want to know the truth, read about Oronce Finé. His maps of the world were obviously copied from ancient sources. There was no Pacific Ocean because it did not exist. Look at the floor on Google Earth. Australia is a shadow of Antarctica. There is also a shadow of South America on the ocean floor in Google Earth. Something happened. Despite the maps's age it is so detailed. Think in terms of a smaller Pacific Oceanless Earth. The Americas are connected to Asia. The Colorado and Mississippi Rivers are present. You can see the mountain range where North America split from Asia. The names translate to give you an idea what is what. The Earth changed. This is why an underwater Japanese island pyramid resemble those of Mexico and Ecuador. Or why a dream catcher looks like Ishtar's circle keys or Aztec god circle keys.

www.atlantismaps.com...

The Piri Reis map really is Antarctica under the ice and part of South America. Wikipedia articles are a joke. The Piri Reis map was copied from a Columbus map that he used because they found it in formerly-Muslim Spain after the Spanish Inquisition. Forbidden knowledge. Why do you think the library in Alexandria was destroyed? They are hiding something. The Ecuador artifacts and the all-seeing-eye-pyramid stone... They are hiding truth!

None of this is real. Everything you are taught from birth (when they may circumcise you are baptize you without permission) is a lie. It's fake. They are all liars. The liars are here too. They take advantage of the mind starting with a statement that you agree with, followed my an emotional one, followed by their point. To trigger all parts of your brain.

Brothers and Sisters, it is time to wake up

So, if part of the problem with stating something as a fact is the language and beliefs systems of the observer versus the language and belief sytems of another observer, what can we do to help establish a piece of information as undeniable proof, so that regardless of language barriers and belief, the information can become an "absolute"?