8 yr. old tells Bachmann: " My moms gay but she doesnt need fixing"- Child Abuse?

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posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by AllUrChips
 


And the reason for the abuse is the same reason you dont badmouth your ex in front of your kid, its none of their bussiness. Its a grown up matter.


No you don't bad mouth a child's bio parent in front of them because it is emotionally damaging to have one parent paint the other as the devil at such a young age.




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
Wow, a guy cant even go to work anymore without having his thread blown up and crucified?

Sorry if you've felt crucified by the comments here. You're right, we should be able to disagree without attacking. But here's the thing - this

If you could read you would also see how I said I dont have a problem with ones sexual orientation, however there is a time and a place. Just because you are gay you have NO SPECIAL RIGHTS!!!!! NONE!!!!

is a homophobic opinion. You may not see it that way, but I do. Clearly other people do too. And that gets us all riled up and sometimes ready to attack. But you are absolutely entitled to your homophobic opinion.

Here's why I say it's homophobic (all of this is my opinion, of course, which I'm entitled to just as much as you are yours) - you give lip service to the idea that you "don't have a problem" with gay people, and then in the same sentence show exactly how much of a problem you do in fact have by relegating gay people to "a time and place." Very generous of you. You then go on, with caps lock intensity, to imply that loving who you want and living how you want are special rights. They're not. They're human rights. To label them as special rights is to deny gay people their basic humanity.

I've been reading this thread and mostly agreeing with your initial argument (though I think "child abuse" is an extreme and inaccurate description), but I've had a hard time voicing my agreement because I don't want to imply agreement with the underlying perspective you seem to be coming from.

That said, I'll do my best to keep my disagreement civil and avoid crucifying anyone.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Believer101
.
Me dropping out of high-school had /nothing/ to do with the fact that religion wasn't in the curriculum. If it was, I can assure you I would have dropped out much sooner than I did. Just because some parents think it should be there, doesn't mean it should.


Religion is a personal choice.

Government/public school is meant for everyone - - including Atheists. Atheists do have children ya know.

NO belief system belongs in government - - Period!

At least not until a child is old enough to choose electives - - on their own - - not forced by parents.



Exactly my point. If you want your children learning religion in school, put them in a private religious school. Don't force religion on the kids who don't believe or follow it.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Believer101
Exactly my point. If you want your children learning religion in school, put them in a private religious school. Don't force religion on the kids who don't believe or follow it.


I also get the cultural point.

But you can teach culture and culture diversity without going into any specific details of a religion.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Believer101
Exactly my point. If you want your children learning religion in school, put them in a private religious school. Don't force religion on the kids who don't believe or follow it.


I also get the cultural point.

But you can teach culture and culture diversity without going into any specific details of a religion.



As do I, which is why I didn't reply to that post. Everything has been said and there's no reason to further the discussion.

And I agree with that as well.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by magicrat

is a homophobic opinion. You may not see it that way, but I do. Clearly other people do too. And that gets us all riled up and sometimes ready to attack. But you are absolutely entitled to your homophobic opinion.


Yes! Oh - I definitely caught that.

I get so tired of the "I'm not homophobic - - BUT . . . ."

I usually just let it go now - - - unless the subject is specific to homophobia.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Your reference to my religion? I profess none. I am saying that for a well-rounded person to flourish intellectually in a Western society, they need to understand Christianity. If they have no notion, then they can not understand music, art, literature, architecture, culture...get my notion? By the same notion, if one wishes to flourish in a world society, one needs to understand other religions and their influence upon cultures.

As to your own experiences, I am indeed sorry. Much wrong has been committed by some professing faith to wield power, and that is not to be dismissed. But a lot of good folk find inspiration and comfort in their faith and it is wrong to define religion by its failings without acknowledging its benefits, too.


I see where you're coming from, but again I have to disagree. You don't need religion or an understanding of any of it to understand culture, music, art, literature, architecture, etc, and I'm the perfect example. I was raised without any sort of religious talk in my home, and music and art are my passions in life. It wasn't until my friend talked about her church that I decided, on my own, to get into it.

No need to be sorry for something you had nothing to do with. What's in the past is in the past and I'm over it completely. I agree, there is some good with religion, but my experience and what I've witnessed is what has led me to my opinion over it.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
I am saying that for a well-rounded person to flourish intellectually in a Western society, they need to understand Christianity. If they have no notion, then they can not understand music, art, literature, architecture, culture...get my notion?

I see where you're coming from, but again I have to disagree. You don't need religion or an understanding of any of it to understand culture, music, art, literature, architecture, etc, and I'm the perfect example. I was raised without any sort of religious talk in my home, and music and art are my passions in life.

Well, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree, won't we.
edit on 7-12-2011 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree, won't we.


There needs to be a way to communicate/teach those things you mention - - without using religion.

Atheists have children too.

Belief is a choice - - it should never be forced on anyone - - especially young minds.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by theovermensch
I actually think its counter-productive in a way for homosexuals to take the approach of a full frontal assault.


If it was not for that tactic, we never would have had the civil rights act passed here in the states.

To be honest, I find the civil rights act insulting. We should never have to pass a law to ensure a person rights that are already protected by our consittution. As for peoples opinions, they have the right to believe and think what they want. What they dont have a right to do is tell another person they dont have a right to be happy or to be able to determine on their own who they fall in love with and if they spend the rest of their lives with that person.

I find it personally humerous, as well as confirming the ignornace of some, when guys rail against gays. Right up to the point they talk about porn and girl on girl action. Apparently being gay is acceptable to those die hard straights afterall, so long as it benefeits them in some manner.

Being a member of the Military requires a person to take the exact same oath, regardless of age, race, sexual orientation or even nationality now. The Military expects its members to uphold the highest standards when it comes to honesty and truthfullness, yet for years they forced people to lie about who they are and when it was found out, they were drummed out of the service.

A volunteer service mind you. To protect and defend the Constitution of the United states against all enemies foreign and domestic.

These people knew what they were getting into when they joined up. Knowing full well if they were found out they were done. It says a LOT when people, knowing what their government thinks of them, religion think sof them, close minded people think of them, to take the oath and defend and protect those listed groups rights to tell them they arent good enough to serve.

Gays have been fighting for equal protection and treatment. They have protected yours, is there any reason people refuse to protect theirs?

The argument about gays revolves around nature and religion, which our founding fathers envisioned when our country was being put together. They, however, acknowledged that religious views should be respected, but not used when it came to laws that govern people.

After all, its one of the reasons they left England, to be able to worship a God of their choice, free of influence or force.


Suggesting kids are being abused by having gay parents is about as intelligent as people who kill in the name of God, who work on the Sabbath, who wear clothes made from differnt cloth, from planting crops side by side, to being killed for touching the skin of a dead pig.

If people are going to hold fast to their own religious beleifs and force them on others, then shouldnt those same people be held to their own religious standards as well? Ms. Bachman is a conservatice Christian after all, and being a conservatice christian places her into a group of do's and dont's.

Apparently she, and others, forgot the part that says only God can judge, the part about turning the other cheak, as well as pushing a religious doctrine while running for public office is just a bad idea.

While she admonishes gays through her own ignorance, maybe her conservative christian brothers and sisters should hold bachman herself accountible?

Or because she is going after gays it gives conservative christians the right to be hypocritical ignorant jackasses?





as for what the 8 year old said to her....

Sometimes the village idiot comes to the right conclusion before the nobel laureate.
edit on 7-12-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-12-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Your reference to my religion? I profess none. I am saying that for a well-rounded person to flourish intellectually in a Western society, they need to understand Christianity. If they have no notion, then they can not understand music, art, literature, architecture, culture...get my notion? By the same notion, if one wishes to flourish in a world society, one needs to understand other religions and their influence upon cultures.

As to your own experiences, I am indeed sorry. Much wrong has been committed by some professing faith to wield power, and that is not to be dismissed. But a lot of good folk find inspiration and comfort in their faith and it is wrong to define religion by its failings without acknowledging its benefits, too.


I see where you're coming from, but again I have to disagree. You don't need religion or an understanding of any of it to understand culture, music, art, literature, architecture, etc, and I'm the perfect example. I was raised without any sort of religious talk in my home, and music and art are my passions in life. It wasn't until my friend talked about her church that I decided, on my own, to get into it.

No need to be sorry for something you had nothing to do with. What's in the past is in the past and I'm over it completely. I agree, there is some good with religion, but my experience and what I've witnessed is what has led me to my opinion over it.


Ok here is an idea.

To be honest I don't think you need to be versed in Christianity to understand western civilization. Because you could just say well in order to understand Catholicism say you would need to understand that some saints are just the archetypes of pagan gods resurrected to fit a new religion. But to understand those religions you would need to understand the birth of these archetypes in the very first nature/ancestor worshiping religions. and so on and so on.

Why not just have a Tradition and Archetypes class? It would compare and contrast various religions and belief systems. It would give broader context to the meaning of not only religious figures but the circumstances that bore those figures forth. Also the systems and societies put in place by those religions.

I guess what I am trying to say is why not a philosophy class with the context of history and at the same time a history class with the further understanding of philosophy.

I like to imagine that is much closer to how the people of antiquity had there places of learning set up.

Though I am no philosopher so maybe that is just too much.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree, won't we.

There needs to be a way to communicate/teach those things you mention - - without using religion.
Atheists have children too.
Belief is a choice - - it should never be forced on anyone - - especially young minds.

I'm not talking about belief. At all. I'm talking about knowing the forces that underpin our culture. Do atheists children celebrate Christmas? Do you have to be Christian to, or is it now an element of our culture?



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree, won't we.

There needs to be a way to communicate/teach those things you mention - - without using religion.
Atheists have children too.
Belief is a choice - - it should never be forced on anyone - - especially young minds.

I'm not talking about belief. At all. I'm talking about knowing the forces that underpin our culture. Do atheists children celebrate Christmas? Do you have to be Christian to, or is it now an element of our culture?


Oh that's a touchy one for me.

I've yet to understand why Christmas is a legal government holiday and celebrated in public school.

Fortunately - - I am in an area that changed it to Winter Break - - as it should be. Earth belief celebrate nature - - which is basically "birth" "reproduction" "food". Winter and Summer solstice is about weather and crops.

Culture? Solstice is real - tangible - and applies to the needs/nature of man and earth.

Christmas? A stolen festival?

Oh yes - - I do celebrate. My tree has small baskets with animals in them. And other earth nature related items.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


What no chanukah bush or passover bunny?



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Annee
 


What no chanukah bush or passover bunny?


Well - - - No!

I do say Happy Holidays though - - all inclusive ya know.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Annee
 


What no chanukah bush or passover bunny?


Well - - - No!

I do say Happy Holidays though - - all inclusive ya know.


Lol... nice.. I was just heckeling ya...



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Annee
 


What no chanukah bush or passover bunny?


Well - - - No!

I do say Happy Holidays though - - all inclusive ya know.


Lol... nice.. I was just heckeling ya...


Figured you were.

I was raised Christian. I am justified in having an opinion on what I know. Maybe the real truth should be taught in schools - - instead of the Fairytale version. You know Native American Heathens - Mark of Ham - Hawaii.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
Wow, a guy cant even go to work anymore without having his thread blown up and crucified?

Ok, here we go: If my daughter ASKED me what gay was I would tell her, however I will not instill any notion of the subject premeditively to her before she knew what it was. I would say sometimes there are two mommies or two daddies. THATS IT. the rest she will learn how us older folk did, life experience. Next, if any of you could read you would see the question mark in the title????????? Then in the next post I did state my opinion, which last time I checked was my RIGHT!!!!! Who in the hell do any of you think you are to try and deprive me of that? If you could read you would also see how I said I dont have a problem with ones sexual orientation, however there is a time and a place. Just because you are gay you have NO SPECIAL RIGHTS!!!!! NONE!!!! What I stated is IT IS MY OPINION that it was abuse IMO!!!! You are all free to disagree, but to crucify me and try to villify me for my opinion, well, YOU are truly the ones we are supposed to be here to deny ignorance from. Any how, if that doesnt satisfy you, too damn bad. PERIOD.


You're just pissed off that your rather bizarre logic and stupid comments were called out, ripped apart and held up for what they are. Nobody tried to deny you of any rights whatsoever so where this poor-me victim act has come from I do not know. You don't need to deny ignorance from those who disagree with you because it was your IGNORANT comments that kicked it all off. Pfffft



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Well i saw that video. I thought it was stupid because I'm pretty sure she made the kid say that. I mean if that was not the case I think thats an awesome kid, but I think she made him say it. I wouldnt classify it as child abuse. However, as someone pointed out. religious nuts are just as guilty as pushing their views on kids.

As for the statement that the kid would turn out gay?!


But then I got to thinking....if his lefist mom is a is a damn RADICAL FEMINIST she might raise him to be ashamed about "objectifying" women. And when he finds that shes more tolerating towards gay men, then he might become a closet heterosexual! But thats just a theory.





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