Have Christians ever sought to conquer the World for Christianity ?

Originally posted by KJV1611
First of all, Catholics are not Christians......they are Catholic. How hard is that guys? Can't people spell, much less read Sound it out! How embarrassing that I see this same mistake almost 5 times a day on ATS.

What the hell are you talking about? lol Catholics are Christian, just like Protestants are Christian, Baptists, Mormons, etc.. Any Catholic would be happy to tell you that you are not a true Christian.

To answer the OP yes, Christians have tried to conquer the world, and if they have half a chance they would again. That is the base goal of most religions, to control people, and inhibit free thought. Luckily for us all, in the areas of the world dominated by Christianity there has been a little more enlightenment amongst the people, and a certain amount of separation between the the church and politics.

reply to post by charles1952

I spend most of my life confused, your post has temporarily extended that confusion.

Sucks to be you.

Starting from the premise that Catholics aren't Christians, would you pleas identify who the Christians were prior to, oh, say, 1700?

They were the ones the Catholics were burning on their stakes. As well as hiding in Mountains for fear of the "world". Do your homework kid. They were known as Huguenots, Waldenses, Anabaptists and Catharians. These were names giving to them from heritics like the catholic church. Towards each other, they were known as Christians.

One other thing I'm not clear on, which I think you can clear up for me; when Jesus says "go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations . . . ." Do you see that as conquering the world?

No. Conquering the world ALWAYS involves two things amoung others. Killing people and taking their gold/goods. Christians do nieghter. They tell people the Gospel of Jesus Christ which can change lives over night and give eternal life. Which happened to me..

By the way, I'm sure there must have been, but could you remind me of the Christian Armies who have conquered another country in the last 400 years?

There never has been a Christian army. Although there will be in the future as found in Revelation 19. Which read.

reply to post by Majiq

Your ignorant. Learn history. Don't read history, learn it.
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by mikejohnson2006
The reason I want to know is because the Neocon Right Wingers always tell me that the Islamists desire to conquer the World for Islam but don't all Religions do this ? Why just pick on Islam ? When Christians started the Crusades in the name of Christianity to conquer Palestine. I think Islamist Terrorism is caused by U.S. Foreign Policy rather then their desire for Empire Christians have had Christian Empires.

en.wikipedia.org...

There are two categories of control in this world. Tyranny and Self-governance. All countries are a degree of this, just like fear and courage; hate and love; up and down and so on. Once you know this, follow the mindset by the fruit they produce.

The true Christian religion is based on faith in God for authority. The God of the Bible stands for equality of all people in loving-kindness to each other. This is a mindset that focuses on the power of the individual to serve the greater good of the many in place of the temporary gain of the individual. The golden rule is the primary law and is the only rule a person needs to live in peace and harmony with the world. Faith is in the spirit of the individual as a reflection of God's perfect love for us.

Anything else is a degree of difference toward tyranny. The Muslim faith seeks covet means to gain power and control by stealing, killing and destroying. The power rests in the few at the top who control the masses. Laws are geared toward taking the choice away from the individual. Faith is in power and not in God.

Know them by their fruits. America was founded on the mindset of Altruism and the power of choice for the individual to express liberty and freedom according to law and justice for all. As we drift away from this, we embrace tyranny and slavery of the people for the temporary gain of the few.

The good in life we all seek is found by where we start. If we start with seeking the things in life first, we end in suffering. If we start with God, requiring suffering work for the reward of others first, we gain true reward for ourselves in the end. Peace and security follows.

Matthew 6:33

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

The kingdom of God is love for others. If our faith is not placed in God, we do not see the goodness of ourselves in the other person. Humility before God is required.

edit on 6-12-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Unless you are gay or in any other way subvert what "god" wants people to do/behave, right? The problem with all religions is that they use their bible to justify what they really want to do. It's the bible that was used to justify slavery, to justify the slaughtering of the native americans, to justify the holocaust, I could go on and on and on....

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Majiq

 

Your ignorant. Learn history. Don't read history, learn it.
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Lol... That is the most intelligent response that you can come up with? You epitomize what religion is all about. Say whatever fits your arguments regardless of whether it is true or even makes any common sense at all. Then when all else fails lash out at those with a different view and a rational mind.

reply to post by KJV1611

KJV1611,

I would like to speak with you as a brother in Christ and offer suggestions, but you have declared me a heretic and would probably not accept my words. Nevertheless, may I encourage you to show kindness and respect to all of God's creatures? After all, even heretics can repent.

But if you will not heed my advice, perhaps you will answer my questions. You have said that the true Christians were those declared to be heretics by the Catholic church. I'm sure you know that the Church has declared over 60 movements to be heretical. Do you maintain that all of those groups were Christian? Even the one that disagreed with each other?

Do you accept the Audianists who believed God has a human body?
Or the Marcionists who believed that the God of the Old Testament was a different and lower God than that of the New Testament?
Perhaps you like the Johannites who believed that John the Baptist was the true Savior, not Jesus?

I could go on, but why? I assume you will agree that some of the heresies condemned by the Church actually are heresies. Please explain why the Church expelled heresies if it was a heresy herself? What tools do you have to identify the Church as a heresy? (Besides your personal interpretation of a few verses.) You agree with the Church that some movements declared heretical actually are heretical. What should we call someone who agrees with heretics on a matter of faith? Do YOU stand condemned as a heretic for agreeing with the Church?

Please, see reason. Think about what you are saying. Be kind. Bring glory to God. Help your brother. But I forget, you have cast me out as a heretic.

Charles1952

reply to post by dorkfish87

Unless you are gay or in any other way subvert what "god" wants people to do/behave, right? The problem with all religions is that they use their bible to justify what they really want to do. It's the bible that was used to justify slavery, to justify the slaughtering of the native americans, to justify the holocaust, I could go on and on and on....

I suppose you are saying this in relation to equity. The foundation of the Bible is law. Not merely the law we may ascribe so easily to men, but the laws that reflect in nature. The intention of law is not to enslave mankind into a corner of behavior. The law is intended as a guardian to reveal faith. Faith is trust and hope in what is true and good. We trust God as good and true as a reflection of nature and the abundance and cycle of things in movement. These reflect the law that govern them. Perversion of the law causes suffering.

It's not hard to see. When a person takes a reward that was not earned, a debt is created and suffering takes place. Smoke and you get cancer. Steal money form the economy and all suffer. Sin causes suffering and this is a reflection of disequilibrium from God's law.

When a person gives and suffers work for reward, then true benefit occurs. Work at a job and you get a paycheck. Your family benefits if the reward earned is invested in wise choices. Suffer and reward follows. Righteousness can only suffer for others to fulfill the law.

Examine any sin you wish to examine, it will always reflect taking of reward for self. This is pride. Examine any work of goodness toward others and you see giving of reward for the benefit of the many. Nature is equally abundant for those who contribute by law. Those who take by abusing the law will suffer the law's consuming fire. Genesis 3 states that the flaming sword protects the tree of life. The flaming sword cuts our pride away to reveal who we truly are. The heart is the center of our being.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Are you saying that homosexual behavior is not seen in nature? I think you should start your learning here

And if you are implying that we should live by God's laws then don't cherry pick. Remember the bible is the infallible word of God, so...

-According to Lev. 25:44 I (speaking from an American point of view) can own slaves but they have to be Mexican or Canadian

-If your daughter pisses you off just sell her into lifelong slavery as allowed by Exodus 21:7

-Sorry animal lovers, vegans etc.. but animal sacrifice is required. Apparently God likes the smell (Leviticus 1:2-9)

-Bills piling up? Need a little extra cash for Xmas? Careful you don't work on Sundays, the penalty is death. (Exodus 35:2)

-Enjoy a good seafood platter of shellfish? Not anymore you don't! (Leviticus 11:10)

-Like to keep the beard trimmed up, or maybe you prefer your hair trimmed around your ears. Well that is a no-no expressly forbidden (Leviticus 19:27)

-Have a home garden? Well I hope you are only growing one thing unless you have more than one field. Oh and that comfy cotton/polyester blend shirt. You might want to think about burning it. (Leviticus 19:19)

Ok, I am done, but don't think that God is. There are many more laws of God to be found including yes, according to Leviticus 20:13 gays are to be put to death.

The sickest part about this outdated work of poorly written sci-fi/horror crap is that people actually believe that it is real.

Oh, and before someone comes along with that tired old argument that Jesus came along and therefore the barbaric laws of the old testament were undone. That is not so, and I suggest you take a look at Matthew 5:17

reply to post by Majiq


Of course, it's not up to me, but I wouldn't like to see this thread slip into a different topic. I'm not even sure to whom I'm writing, but I'd really like to find out about Christians invading and conquering the world.

21st century Christianity does not want or desire to 'conquer'... the political and economic systems of nations are 'hands off'...

but the hearts & minds of any of the populations are the targets of the Christian Missionary and the Evangelicals...

The 'baptized' masses Tithe's and their Hand's to do Christian work/missions is the Christian clergies game plan
instead of Empire building...unlike a Caliphate which seeks to dominate all phases of one's life on Earth


Christianity is benign, but also annoying to an extent...
but definitely is not purposed to 'conquer' as the main goal or function

reply to post by charles1952


You're right, we are spinning into a new topic here. As far as Christians wishing to rule the world. The Holy Roman Empire, Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Puritans of Colonial America. I don't think it is Christians alone to be fair. I think that anytime religion is allowed to have the power to rule governments this happens as can be seen in the Middle East with Islam today.

I also want to point out that my views are not towards Christians, Muslims, Jews, or anyone else as individuals. The myths they choose to subscribe to however are totalitarian in nature, and any government based on those myths will reflect that nature as has been seen throughout history.

reply to post by Majiq

Dear Majiq,

Thank you for your kind response. You've given me another thought which I'd appreciate your comment on.

In a world where the developed nations are becoming less and less religious, (church attendance figures are what I'm thinking of) do we have less of a risk of serious war? Will most of the wars for conquest be in the non-developed areas such as Africa and parts of Asia? And has Christianity become so weak in people's eyes that it couldn't muster a conquering force?

With respect,
charles1952

reply to post by Majiq

Are you saying that homosexual behavior is not seen in nature?

I never addressed the topic.

reply to post by Majiq

-According to Lev. 25:44 I (speaking from an American point of view) can own slaves but they have to be Mexican or Canadian

Again, people were willingly seeking to labor for a living. A slave in this case is not a Western style plantation slave. These slaves were no different than you and me working for the boss. The laws were there to regulate fair treatment of workers. Since the land was the primary means of labor, a person worked their way up to being a landowner if possible. Bond servant is a better way to view this. In some cases, slaves were working off a debt to society.

-If your daughter pisses you off just sell her into lifelong slavery as allowed by Exodus 21:7

The Israelite people had previously been in bondage to Egypt. They were mistreated by their masters. In this time period of history, as in ours, people served others higher in society. They went to work for those they earned a living from. This was what you are terming slavery. In reality, the work was a willing vocation for most. If you were not a land owner, you served a land owner. All jobs were produced from the land. In some cases, the servants were serving labor time to pay back a debt to society for a crime. In other cases, men would allow the transfer of family members.

In this and all cases, the laws were necessary to govern the treatment of of the process to ensure that the mistreatment of the previous exodus was not repeated. This form of government was a mutually agreed Theocracy. Anyone could leave for other nations at any time unless they were bonded to serve for a crime.

I'm curious. Why not mention a verse that doesn't fit your skewed perspective?

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

What is meant by this is not a separation. The man was allowed to seek other employment, while still living with his family. The bonded nature of the work was like a contract. We are contracted in our world the same way. No difference.

I think "enough" people have died in the name of Christianity.

Every other religion too...such hipocrasy...

reply to post by Majiq

-Bills piling up? Need a little extra cash for Xmas? Careful you don't work on Sundays, the penalty is death. (Exodus 35:2)

No quite. The capital punishment would have been reflected in the law as the worst punishment possible. No jails and no police meant that the judges would decide. The law only reflected what could happen in the worst case. The Sabbath, as Jesus points out, was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. This was a national law. The only to enforce a law is to require it by judgment. Same as today. No difference. Well...We don't enforce our laws so I guess there is some difference.

reply to post by Majiq

-Enjoy a good seafood platter of shellfish? Not anymore you don't! (Leviticus 11:10)

This one is my favorite to answer because it takes such little logic to see. There was no refrigeration in these days. Shell fish kills people, even this day and age, because of bacteria. In that day, there was no way to preserve this food in harsh conditions. Shell fish would have been a risky food to consume. The law was there as a warning for health.

Might as well mention circumcision while were at it. Removing the foreskin would have been the only way to keep an unbathed person from spreading infection across to the women in the form of constant yeast infections. It's simple to see if you dare to look past bias. They did not take showers each day. Maybe each month.

reply to post by Majiq

-Like to keep the beard trimmed up, or maybe you prefer your hair trimmed around your ears. Well that is a no-no expressly forbidden (Leviticus 19:27)

This was for the priest. Pride was the issue. The priest was to be the most pious of the community. No reason not to have a rule such as this in a theocracy governed by God. I see the need. This was not a rule for just anyone.

reply to post by Majiq


One thing about God: He always plans ahead and shows by example. Like the mixing of vegetable material and animal material in clothing, the idea is on two levels. One level is on the quality to the product. God is always for the best quality for mankind. The second level is for the spiritual value as a lesson. The people were not to mix seed with the other nations. If God would save them as the example to the nations at the final day of the Lord, there must be a preserved nation there to save. Mixing of seeds keeps hybrids from developing. This produces the best quality food. Same goes for a nation He wished to preserve.

These are not laws we are obligated to in this day. Galatians 3 reveals this.

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

reply to post by Majiq

The sickest part about this outdated work of poorly written sci-fi/horror crap is that people actually believe that it is real.

Oh, and before someone comes along with that tired old argument that Jesus came along and therefore the barbaric laws of the old testament were undone. That is not so, and I suggest you take a look at Matthew 5:17

Limited understanding will keep your perspective close to your own narrow awareness of the world. The law is fulfilled by loving others. When we broaden our awareness beyond the self, others begin to matter as much as we matter to ourselves. Laws are there to ensure equality for all and not merely the desires of the few. Serving others requires sacrifice. God demands that we suffer for others, even if it means following rules. The next time someone steal from you or takes your dignity and rights away, check to see if you value the very rules you live by. I bet you do if we are honest about it. We all demand justice when we are wronged. This requires a law as a foundation.