reincarnation is not possible

reply to post by argentus


There is that measurement of the loss of 21 grams at time of death...

the soul?

I'm just saying that a soul, or a spirit, can never be anything other than what it is. Matter is always matter. Their is no crossover. Matter doesn't die. Spirit doesn't die. How can one inject into another when both live forever.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
If there is such a thing as a sole and it can inhabit a body one time, why can it now inhabit a body again at a later time?

Sorry, your proof seems hollow.

Last line

Maybe there is only ONE soul, at varying stages of development..? That would solve it.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Ah no I was merely expanding on what he said Elaborating a bit more. I agreed with what he said.

Originally posted by Theophorus
The universe is made up of material things. Material things can be broken down into parts. Any given part is not the whole of it self. No matter how many times material things can be broken down, matter can not cease to be.it is always here, it just changes form.Spirit on the other hand has no physical attributes at all. There are no parts. Since spirit has no parts it can't be broken down into pieces. Spirit is whole.it can never be anything other than what it is. This being true about spiritual things and material things, how is reincarnation possible?

How do you know the universe is made up of material things? It could be a holographic universe in which your brain perceives the universe to be material.

Originally posted by Theophorus
I'm just saying that a soul, or a spirit, can never be anything other than what it is. Matter is always matter. Their is no crossover. Matter doesn't die. Spirit doesn't die. How can one inject into another when both live forever.

Then how did it (the soul) get into our present bodies?

Originally posted by Wildbob77
If there is such a thing as a sole and it can inhabit a body one time,

Hmm, I have two soles -- one on the bottom of each foot. If I get a sole inhabiting my body, I'll have to assume somebody stuck their foot up my arse.

reply to post by Theophorus


I see matter as energy that has chosen to become physical, as all matter is nothing but energy. Yes energy can not die nor change but why do you see the soul as matter. This is what does not make sense to me.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6

Originally posted by Theophorus
I'm just saying that a soul, or a spirit, can never be anything other than what it is. Matter is always matter. Their is no crossover. Matter doesn't die. Spirit doesn't die. How can one inject into another when both live forever.

Then how did it (the soul) get into our present bodies?

I kinda view the soul as the glue that holds the material world and the spiritual world together.

reply to post by Agarta


I never said the soul is material. I'm speaking of matter and spirit. Not soul

IMO the physical world is a reflection of the spiritual world and vice versa, so I don't agree with OP. You have any proof this physical world is actually real OP? I had a dream last night that was just about as vivid as waking reality. Life aint nothing more than God day dreamin, I can't prove that but you can't prove me wrong either. So saying what is, and what is not possible is just silly, we can only think we know.

Originally posted by Theophorus
The universe is made up of material things. Material things can be broken down into parts. Any given part is not the whole of it self. No matter how many times material things can be broken down, matter can not cease to be.it is always here, it just changes form.Spirit on the other hand has no physical attributes at all. There are no parts. Since spirit has no parts it can't be broken down into pieces. Spirit is whole.it can never be anything other than what it is. This being true about spiritual things and material things, how is reincarnation possible?

So matter cannot cease to be and the "spirit" has no physical attributes so that means reincarnation is not possible? The Spirit cannot be broken down and is whole? I don't see how any of these assumptions can prove that reincarnation is not possible.

Wouldn't it be logical, in your words, you have a matter based body dead and deteriorating but still matter and a spirit that is whole that cannot be broken down, why is it not possible for the "unbroken down" spirit to occupy a new human body?

reply to post by Theophorus


Please do not think Me argumentative as I am not attempting to be, my only goal is to understand.

You refer to Spirit as matter and I refer to Spirit as the world or plane in which the souls reside. Your answer above to chamberf=7 kind of makes sense to me as Spirit, being the world/plane of souls would be the energy and the soul being the consciousness, but is energy considered matter?

Everything is vibrating energy - both physical matter and spiritual matter.
It vibrates at different rates.
Low vibration produces our 3dimensional existence,
A 'soul' is spirit energy inhabiting a 3rd dimensional body just for the experience.
Some souls choose to return and learn more. I have decided to get off this treadmill and won't be choosing to return after this physical body 'dies'.

“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”
― Albert Einstein

Originally posted by Theophorus
I'm just saying that a soul, or a spirit, can never be anything other than what it is. Matter is always matter. Their is no crossover. Matter doesn't die. Spirit doesn't die. How can one inject into another when both live forever.

Matter is not always matter. This is how nukes work. Matter is ultimately energy (.....e=mc2), and energy takes many many different forms. Many of these forms theoretically we know to exist but we have not been able to measure with the tools we have available to us at this present time. Spirit is also energy in the form of consciousness. And it is one of these energy types that we cannot as yet measure. But it is form of energy that carries with it a consciousness. That is how we know it exists. Because we all have one. Spirit is easier to 'measure' than the Higgs-Boson particle, because each possess a conciousness. You are one unit of human level consciousness, one unit of spirit.

There is ultimately one consciouss energy which pervades all of creation. When this spirit manifests on this plane of physical existence it cannot do so as a whole, it can only do it in 'parts' which gives rise to the illusion of individual consciouness. These 'parts' of the whole, these individual manifestations of spiritual energy call around it other forms of energy in the form of matter, which creates your body. This allows it operate as a seperate part of the whole complete with memories and other functions that come with existing as a physical being.

But when you break all this energy down to it primal form, it is all the one energy, it just combines itself differently, similar to how different atoms manifest as different elements. Some takes the form of a consciousness, a spirit. Others takes the form of matter. But it is all one and the same.....

Simple eh.

Originally posted by margaretr
Everything is vibrating energy - both physical matter and spiritual matter.
It vibrates at different rates.
Low vibration produces our 3dimensional existence,
A 'soul' is spirit energy inhabiting a 3rd dimensional body just for the experience.
Some souls choose to return and learn more. I have decided to get off this treadmill and won't be choosing to return after this physical body 'dies'.

“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”
― Albert Einstein

This is the mechanism of how this one energy takes different forms. I wrote a little on vibration myself in this thread

reply to post by Theophorus



Sort of neat reasoning even though simplistic and inflexible. I won't profess to have all the answers and won't even read the responses here so I won't be influenced in my reply. I will only respond based on my experiences which are not in the norm I suppose.

Briefly, I have been out of body, I have seen my light body from a perspective of being in a second or astral body, thus there were three of me, the physical lying there, myself or the ego intact watching and the light body or soul. There were also a couple of others as well, but we will ignore them for now. Up to this point, I see myself as existing in fragments of a whole, perhaps many fragments.

Later this summer, I was on a much higher level getting a message, yet I existed here as well and later again as I mentioned in the beginning, I was fragmented. In this event I was with a presence, seeing myself being given solstice and comfort as I was beside the presence at the time.

In short, I know we can exist as parts and be connected, thus a small part of ourselves can inhabit a body for this life, and yet exist elsewhere. Perhaps several bodies at the same time.

Wait has it been decided yet?
Can I come back as a chimp or not?

reply to post by Theophorus


Twas a neat string of words you put together.
Can you prove your theory?
I think reincarnation is possible.

reply to post by boymonkey74


only if you start throwing your poop as a human

reply to post by Chamberf=6


perhaps that's the best we can currently do to quantify a lifeforce. Who knows? I tend to think that a more accurate measurement might be in gauss units, but that's just me free-associating -- again.

Originally posted by tomten
reply to post by Theophorus

 

spirit = energy = e

e = mc2

That is true of a closed system but what if the spirit is 'plugged' into a Power Source, thus, kNot a closed system?

Ribbit