Help with Translating Ancient Mysterious Artifact

Originally posted by IAMTAT

Originally posted by kdog1982
Just for a good reference and something to bookmark,ancient scripts from around the world.

www.ancientscripts.com...

Thank you; wonderful reference. Unfortunately, I'm not finding a match yet. Will definitely bookmark this.

What is really weird is the closest match I could come up with was from the pre-arabic cultures.

www.mnh.si.edu...

Or was that another thread?

reply to post by ArcAngel


Can't tell you what it means but i can tell you what language it is. It's greek and by the looks of it, pretty old form of Mycenaen.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by ArcAngel

 

Can't tell you what it means but i can tell you what language it is. It's greek and by the looks of it, pretty old form of Mycenaen.

Interesting. If Mycenaean...wouldn't that have to make it Linear B?

reply to post by kdog1982

I will say this: This artifact is definitely extremely ancient...with sporatic calcification over the surface and within the characters. It is an extremely hard and heavy stone bowl which shows no wear within the shallow concave surface from grinding. This leads me to believe it was possibly used for memorializing or divining purposes.

I would say negative as a mortar. The concave surface appears, at least as photographed, to not be worn in the same way a natural stone grinding/pulverizing surface does. It appears that the symbols are not worn. Decorating the inside of a grinding or mortar type device seems counterproductive to me. The material you were grinding getting caught in the grooves and needing to be picked out.
I'll give you $10 for it!

My initial guess, alchemy symbols.
I need to dig further.

PLPL

I have to agree with others it seems like a mix of alphabets.. i see rune symbols and also Greek letters..

In the late viking period you could have in that area a mix of latin/greek from the christian church, runes from the viking culture as they became christians and druid from the local culture.

I would look for a viking settlement in a druid area where the artifact was found.

en.wikipedia.org...

If I guessed I would say alchemical runes. You seem to have a decent mix of different symbols there I can spot the circle with the middle dot for the sun or in alchemy the symbol for gold. Also you seem to have a Vesica Pisces, the (Jesus fish) symbol, some schools of alchemy use it instead of the traditional Pisces symbol, often times the Pisces was use for divination purposes, with it's relationship to water it would be present in seeing fountains, fill the bowl with water you got yourself an old time crystal ball. Which perhaps is what this particular bowl was used for, however I confused with some of the markings, like the circle surrounded by dots. This is also a symbol for the sun, however I have never seen it used as a gold symbol like the other sun glyph.....

Also you don't normally see gold symbols with a seeing bowl.

So, I am a bit confused. A very interesting piece for sure, I will dig a little into the other symbols see what I can see.

Good find OP!
I have to chime in and say i have seen things like this before used in ceremonial magic. The pieces i remember were used as a Altar centerpiece filled with water(for scrying perhaps)

The gothic runes have many esoteric magic symbols which may or may not be related to any language and there are relationships to Tarot symbols as well.

OK I got a few more. The P symbol possibly the Wunjo rune. A blessing rune, but also deals with truth telling.

The M shaped rune Ehwaz. Progress/ The will

The slightly z shaped rune is possibly a Algiz but uncertain, although the meaning is assistance especially of a divine nature.

The side ways V is a Kenaz, rune or wisdom, revelation and enlightenment.

I may have one more I am uncertain about the L shaped rune is possibly a variation on the Laguz. Water, intuition, and secrets.

All in all I believe you have a mishmash of various symbols not really a language. Still thinking a scry bowl.

Originally posted by chrismicha77
Is it just me or does some of those symbols look Egyptian??

Yes, the circle with the dot in the middle is a symbol for the sun too. I don't know if that would be Babylonian or Akkadian originally.

reply to post by ArcAngel

Haven't seen this one yet.


Gothic Rune Alphabet

Google that and click on images and you get a bunch of translation images plus web sites.

What a beautiful and fascinating piece of antiquity! I will keep up with this thread in hopes of finding out more about the piece. What did this artifact cost?

It almost looks like it was part of something else. Is the piece missing in the first picture a broken off piece? Because it looks deliberately cut out, maybe like it fitted onto a shaft. And on the second picture the shape almost looks like it has a pouring tip on the left side. I'm thinking with all the symbols that it very possibly has something to do with ancient ceremony's, diffinatley not grinding.
A blessing bowl or something to do with alchemy. Maybe if it was fitted onto a shaft then alchemy, so the practitioner was away from whatever they were pouring?

If it was found in an early Etruscan or Greek dig, I would say that is certainly not affiliated with alchemy. This is isn't linear B or Etruscan either, and certainly not linear A.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by ArcAngel

 

Haven't seen this one yet.

Gothic Rune Alphabet

Google that and click on images and you get a bunch of translation images plus web sites.

This looks like Elder Futhark...and shows similarities with many of the characters.

Originally posted by ArcAngel
Hi all,

I was at my brother in law's house for Thanksgiving and he has a nice collection of antiquities. One in particular caught my eye and started a discussion on druid, avery stones in the UK, etc. It looks like mortar and is about 10 inches wide.

Anywho, I took some pictures of the writing and if anyone (Zorgon this means you) could tell me what this means, I would appreciate it.

imageshack.us...
imageshack.us...

Originally posted by k0mbination
It almost looks like it was part of something else. Is the piece missing in the first picture a broken off piece? Because it looks deliberately cut out, maybe like it fitted onto a shaft. And on the second picture the shape almost looks like it has a pouring tip on the left side. I'm thinking with all the symbols that it very possibly has something to do with ancient ceremony's, diffinatley not grinding.
A blessing bowl or something to do with alchemy. Maybe if it was fitted onto a shaft then alchemy, so the practitioner was away from whatever they were pouring?

Your post got me to thinking about the missing/broken section of what I assume to be the lower underside of this artifact...While it looks like a clean/faceted break...it is off-center to the bottom edge and relatively shallow in relation to the thickness of this disc along it's rim. This would mean that, although the stone is extremely hard and heavy, if it were used as a head piece to a staff or rod, the weight-related pressure would still be substancial...relative to the structural and tensile strength of the stone itself.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting and still-valid idea...especially when one takes into account the fact that this artifact is not just carved with characters and symbols on the concave surface (top?), but on the underside and the full circumference of the outer edge of the rim, as well. This could indicate a use beyond that of a skrying bowl, as when used for that purpose alone, the character elements on the underside would not be seen.

reply to post by IAMTAT


I am researching this piece, very interesting. I can see a few of the "symbols" around the outer edge in the first pic, and I feel that they will be vital in producing a translation.

Is there any way for you to photograph the rest of the "symbols" around the rim? Even if you laid it upside down, and photographed it upside down while rotating, we'll find orientation from the notch. It's easier to flip an image than it would be to to get proper lighting.

The way I am viewing it for now, the bottom inscriptions denote the original owner/family, the "symbols" inside are an instruction set, and the ones around the edge are the actually "message" or binding for the rest of the bowl.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by IAMTAT

 

I am researching this piece, very interesting. I can see a few of the "symbols" around the outer edge in the first pic, and I feel that they will be vital in producing a translation.

Is there any way for you to photograph the rest of the "symbols" around the rim? Even if you laid it upside down, and photographed it upside down while rotating, we'll find orientation from the notch. It's easier to flip an image than it would be to to get proper lighting.

The way I am viewing it for now, the bottom inscriptions denote the original owner/family, the "symbols" inside are an instruction set, and the ones around the edge are the actually "message" or binding for the rest of the bowl.

Thank you...I have forwarded some additional photos of the rim symbols to ArcAngel for posting. They should be up as soon as he comes back on line...These are similar in appearence...with an odd series of five evenly-spaced dots along the lower portion of the rim; these seperate the contiguous series of fourteen additional characters/symbols.