On the Bic lighter note (and I can't believe we are even having this convo anywhere online anymore) everyone curious, take it and throw it in the sink with water. Let it sit for just a couple seconds. Take it out and try to light it. It won't light. So try with another Bic, same thing. 5 minutes later it's been shaken upside down, right side up, held in my fleece coat and thrown against the wall (just ruling everything out) still won't light, not even a spark.

It'll light up tomorrow, sure, but right now it's 10 degrees out and tomorrow doesn't mean a thing because I'm freezing in the snow and thirsty and tired.
Soooooo....enough of the Bic lighter topic. It's old and proven wrong.

ETA- Flint 3 minuites and spark/light
ETA- Bic 20 minutes and still no spark.
ETA- 45 minutes Bic, no spark
ETA- 45 minutes the wood stove cranking from flint
ETA- 2 1/2 hours. Damper on woodstove closed, embers to burn through the night..house toasty.
Bic just finally created spark and inconsistent flame.

Originally posted by moondancer811
On the Bic lighter note (and I can't believe we are even having this convo anywhere online anymore) everyone curious, take it and throw it in the sink with water. Let it sit for just a couple seconds. Take it out and try to light it. It won't light. So try with another Bic, same thing. 5 minutes later it's been shaken upside down, right side up, held in my fleece coat and thrown against the wall (just ruling everything out) still won't light, not even a spark.

It'll light up tomorrow, sure, but right now it's 10 degrees out and tomorrow doesn't mean a thing because I'm freezing in the snow and thirsty and tired.
Soooooo....enough of the Bic lighter topic. It's old and proven wrong.

ETA- Flint 3 minuites and spark/light
ETA- Bic 20 minutes and still no spark.
ETA- 45 minutes Bic, no spark
ETA- 45 minutes the wood stove cranking from flint
ETA- 2 1/2 hours. Damper on woodstove closed, embers to burn through the night..house toasty.
Bic just finally created spark and inconsistent flame.

edit on 25-11-2011 by moondancer811 because: above information

take same bic.. hold underwater for 5 minutes.. remove, blow on the wheel, slowly roll the striker across pant leg.
roll 3-5 times, then light your fire.
better yet, go find a smoker. tell them your "theories about how a bic won't work in the wild" then watch them laugh at you and light up.
Ive lit a smoke with a lighter that went through the washer, seconds after removing it from the machine.
So has every smoker on earth.


I guess Im just too old to banter over reality with people who are experts but have never done half the things they post about.

unless another great flood happense, or an instant ice age, I think my bic will serve me well.
(Btw... I did mention I carry a steel as an extreme backup, but never use it.. you "experts" missed that part of my post huh?)
*edited to add: Due to all the harsh and brutal responses to my suggestion to use common sense, I will now add, the suggestion of a zip lock baggie, or other waterproof container for your mini bic automatic self contained, gas fueld firestarting tool.
Or just dip the roller ends in molten parrafin.


I do not need to build a pocketwatch to tell time.
I do not need to run around the block just to cross the street.
I do not need to act like a caveman to build a fire when I have a bic lighter.

I work smarter, not harder.

The advice given to a seasoned hiker/camper is different than advice given to a banker who has never been outside city limits.
situations will bering other variables.
Using a firesteel is alot of work you usually wont need to do if you have a lighter...and could be a problem for people who are not experienced in using one to build a fire.

The herd mentality escapes me.
I never have been one to go along with the status quo when I know better.

a change of clothes
first aid kit
matches
trash bags
duct tape

Originally posted by moondancer811
On the Bic lighter note (and I can't believe we are even having this convo anywhere online anymore) everyone curious, take it and throw it in the sink with water. Let it sit for just a couple seconds. Take it out and try to light it. It won't light. So try with another Bic, same thing. 5 minutes later it's been shaken upside down, right side up, held in my fleece coat and thrown against the wall (just ruling everything out) still won't light, not even a spark.

It'll light up tomorrow, sure, but right now it's 10 degrees out and tomorrow doesn't mean a thing because I'm freezing in the snow and thirsty and tired.
Soooooo....enough of the Bic lighter topic. It's old and proven wrong.

ETA- Flint 3 minuites and spark/light
ETA- Bic 20 minutes and still no spark.
ETA- 45 minutes Bic, no spark
ETA- 45 minutes the wood stove cranking from flint
ETA- 2 1/2 hours. Damper on woodstove closed, embers to burn through the night..house toasty.
Bic just finally created spark and inconsistent flame.

edit on 25-11-2011 by moondancer811 because: above information

Ok, you know why the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines dont issue bics.....

If you needed one they would issue you one.

Period. >.< end of cock and bull story.

Originally posted by Shadowalker

Originally posted by moondancer811
On the Bic lighter note (and I can't believe we are even having this convo anywhere online anymore) everyone curious, take it and throw it in the sink with water. Let it sit for just a couple seconds. Take it out and try to light it. It won't light. So try with another Bic, same thing. 5 minutes later it's been shaken upside down, right side up, held in my fleece coat and thrown against the wall (just ruling everything out) still won't light, not even a spark.

It'll light up tomorrow, sure, but right now it's 10 degrees out and tomorrow doesn't mean a thing because I'm freezing in the snow and thirsty and tired.
Soooooo....enough of the Bic lighter topic. It's old and proven wrong.

ETA- Flint 3 minuites and spark/light
ETA- Bic 20 minutes and still no spark.
ETA- 45 minutes Bic, no spark
ETA- 45 minutes the wood stove cranking from flint
ETA- 2 1/2 hours. Damper on woodstove closed, embers to burn through the night..house toasty.
Bic just finally created spark and inconsistent flame.

edit on 25-11-2011 by moondancer811 because: above information

Ok, you know why the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines dont issue bics.....

If you needed one they would issue you one.

Period. >.< end of cock and bull story.

Now that's some fine logic.
I won't even begin to try and reason the fact that survival and military combat are two entirely different things.
Pack the things you are familiar with and can actually utilize.
If you can't properly handsharpen a knife, don't bring a ceramic stick, pack a simple "V" sharpener instead.
If you aren't proficient at firemaking with primitive tools, bring a damn bic.
Don't suggest the average joe pack technical tools that are beyond their skill level.
THAT gets people in trouble.

As far as your statment,you are incorrect.
I won't source a hundred NSN numbers to prove i how wrong you are, but I will list one to make my point.


Google is your friend.
SRU-21P Aviator's Survival Vest

NSN: 9920-00-999-6753 Lighter, butane
It's a standard Bic.



FYI: RANGER school at Ft Benning recommends bringing a bic lighter and two packs of matches.



Im done arguing over this.
the OP asked for suggestions, I gave mine based on my experience.
It was later suggested that I be banned for saying a lighter makes more sense than scratching steel and flint.
This is probably the same braintrust suggesting newbies hand sharpen knives on ceramic coffee cups, thus destroying their blades.
These folk seriously better pray the S never H's TF.


Deny Ignorance? Oh the Ironing.

This is what i would have in/on my backpack to be able to survive in Norway: To be able to survive in Norway you have to plan for cold winters and wet weather conditions. My survival kit is based on mobility.

1. Have made my own Backpack with parts from different backpacks. 130 ltr. Spare parts 1 kg.

2. Sleeping bag (I have made my own sleeping bag for arctic conditions) 2,4 kg. Spare parts 0,34 kg. This sleeping bag can be made into a summer bag as well.

3. Inner tent "4 persons". (Don't need the whole tent) 2 kg. Spare parts 0,5 kg. (A tent is a luxury i will drop the tent if i have to).

4. My own pre made - First aid kit. 0,9 kg.
5. My own pre made Axe blade 1,6 kg. Its a axe blade with a pre fitted clamp that i can fit any type of shaft on to. This axe can also be used to tilt the earth so that you can build a garden.

6. Gas mask with spare parts.
7. Different types of small tools for repair/maintenance. 1 kg.
8. Combat goggles. Ski goggles with spare parts: 0,38 kg.
9. Uvex ski helmet. 0,49kg. Gives good protection against cold weather conditions ++++
10. Combat facial mask of Kevlar 0,29 kg. This mask gives good isolation for extreme cold weather conditions.
11. Fire stick large "5 of them".
12. XGK fuel burner with one pot. No spare parts as i don't expect to be using it for to long.
13. Fuel. 1,5 kg.
14. Fish netting. This can be used for fishing, trap animals and birds, to make a Gillie suit, clothing and to build a shelter. It is very easy to fasten different items to a fishing nett. 2 kg.

15. Clothing:
A.
Super underwear HH- long: top and bottom 2 set of each. I prefer to buy woman longs and long armed tops, because they fit the body a lot better. Underwear must sit very tight to the body, because it dosent take long until you start to loose a lot weight (4-5 days). It is very important to keep this in mind when you choose clothing for extreme conditions. These items are vacuum packed. 0,33 kg.

B.
Medium thick; long armed sweater "female". Female sweaters fit perfectly because they are tight around the chest, armpits and waist. The idea is to circulate as little cold air as possible. 1 of these vacuum packed and one ready for use.
0,32 kg.

C.
Thick sweater male large. I have chosen Large because these sweaters tent to expand a lot. Male large is a tight fit on me, but after a days use they tend to expand. You dont want this to sit to loose because than it circulates to much cold air onto the cloths underneath. I often have to make adjustments so that it will fit properly. When i open my backpack this shirt is the first item on top. 0,88 kg.

D.
Socks thick; vacuum packed. 0,11 kg.

E.
A pre manufactured jacket and pants to do camp work and equipment maintenance. 2 kg.

This set up with clothing will at best only last one season "365 days". So knowing how to manufacture new clothing and rope is a must.


Food;

A.
I always pack 10 ration's of pre made dried food with a lot of fat, that can either be eaten hot or cold. Main goal is to catch or gather own food resources. The 10 rations are only for emergencies. +- 4 kg.

B.
Salt, pepper.

C.
Seeds, small potatoes ready to be set. +- 2 kg.

If i cant catch/gather food. My rations are only good for 21 days. In very cold winter conditions my body will consume a lot of energy to try and keep me warm. I wont be much useful after 21 days.



Total weight: Is usually around 25 to 35 kg.


How i would dress up for mobility;

1. Super underwear.

2. I have manufactured my own outer pants to reflect more body heat, air outlets and fabricated pockets for protection gear/padding. I can also store water in these pants. I can also attach items on the inside.

3. I have manufactured my own tool belt from a climbing harness. I can fit all types of things to this harness and still move very good. Long and short blade knife always attached to this harness.

4. I have remanufactured my jacket to reflect more body heat. Fabricated pockets for protection gear and padding. Air out lets. I can also store water in my jacket for a short while. Specially made hood and strapping.

5 Thick socks.

6. Hard thick leather boots "tall" with extra heat reflection and outer strapping. Very difficult to manufacture on your own. These boots can be used on cross country skies.

7. Uvex ski helmet. Very good protection and good comfort.

8. Gore Tex Mittens "shell" with lots of adjustments, with three finger inner gloves in leather. Can be used separate.


Combat configuration depends on SHTF scenario. I prefer not to bring it along even if the environment is violent.

I have re-manufactured a combat vest and put a backpack harness on it so that i can attach it to the backpack by taking of the original harness. I can release the backpack with this harness.

With a combat configuration everything gets a lot heavier. And i might have to drop items to keep mobility.

In my bug out bag i have all the stuff i would bring on an extended camping trip:

- 2 LED Flashlights
- 2 Light sticks
- 20ft of 550 para cord
- 1 Incandescent Flashlight
- Zippo
- Survival Book
- 1 Folding pocket knife
- 1 Leatherman surge Multitool
- 20 Stormproof matches
- 1 survival kit
- 1 Mess kit
- 3 mountain house food meals
- 1 pair of gloves
- 1 REI 0 degree mummy sleeping bag
- 1 bottle of potable aqua
- 2 fixeld blade knives
- 1 BIC lighter
- 20 strike anywhere matches
- 1 nalgene bottle
- 3 pairs of wool socks and silk liners

Some stuff i'm trying to get:

- a casio G-SHOCK watch
- another good fixed blade knife
- another nalgene bottle

Not in my bag but SOL works fine enough for 1...

Originally posted by liejunkie01
I cannot believe you guys are arguing over a bic lighter....

Why not have both

that is what i was thinking exactly. I have several methods of fire in mine i cannot tell you what they are i don't know all of their names. i wont claim to know everything... and i couldn't tell you everything in my bag because it was put there last fall in the wheel-well of my car... but i can tel you that ive lit lighters that are wet, and ive lit lighters that are dry, some work some don't IN BOTH OCCASIONS. so why don't you guys let off the lighter issue and get to the survival..

and for those of you hoarding gold i suggest highly you do something with it before there is nobody that will buy it... you cannot eat gold, it cannot keep you warm at night, maybe you can use it to lure a fish if your lucky. or as a signal if you pound it down to a flat sheet lol but have fun with that. Id rather use my fishing tackle, and mirror, or my reflector or flares... Just my Opinion. id go with this guy before id run off to the mall to sell my gold and get vaporized